Please help me get a grip!

[Marnica]

I really ned you mamas to help me get a grip. I have 2 kids 4.5yrs and 5.5 months. We will be flying to San Fransisco next week for my brother's wedding. I know pertussis is going around everywhere but I know its particularly bad where we are going. In fact I just got an email about 30 mins ago from the babysitter we had lined up to watch the kids while we were at the wedding. She cancelled because she just got diagnosed with pertussis!

Now Im very glad she cancelled and she will not be around my kids but I am having major anxiety about this trip. I know and feel 100% that not having them vaccinated with an ineffective, possibly dangerous vaccine is the right thing to do BUT pertussis scares the crap out of me. Of all the VPD's out there, this is the one that strikes fear in my heart, especially with an infant. I know about SA. Im dosing them both up now (DS has a cold anyway) and will bring it with us. I do all kinds of things to keep their immune system strong, but I'm still just freaking out. I really wish sometimes that I didn't know what I know. I know there is only so much I can do about any of this  and its not like we cant go. I guess I just need to hear from others (and you provax lurkers can keep quiet thanks) about how you'd feel and what you'd do. Most of the time Im quite confident and strong about my choices - but I have my moments and this is one of them!

[Mirzam]

This is the dilemma that non vaxers have to face every so often, unfortunately. I can tell you how I would feel and what I would do, but that is based on my reality and where I am on this journey which will be different from yours and I don't want to negate your feelings or make you wrong.

Your first choice is to cancel and not go. But that doesn't really solve the issue, because the fears will surface again at another time.

Second, you could get the vaccine. However, you know it is pretty much ineffective and has the potential to harm (I actually believe it does harm and the degree is the thing in question). You also have to consider that once this vaccine is given, your children will never be able to mount a true immune response to pertussis. 

Third take a chance on your children's (intact) immune systems. B. pertussis is everywhere and not every unvaccinated person gets sick from exposure. Research has shown that around 25% of infections in the unvaccinated are asymptomatic. (Hilary Butler has the research reference).

Worst comes to worst you know how to treat whooping cough, not that you would want to, and everyone will likely pull through the experience fine.

Have a hug 

[ma2two]

Pertussis is not dangerous to a 5.5 month old.

You know about sodium ascorbate, which is great.

[AmandaT]

Are you still breastfeeding the infant? If you are, make sure to stay with them and if they get exposed you will to. Your body will start producing antibodies immediately and your LO will be better off than anyone who isn't breastfeeding! 

Other than trying to be diligent about people with coughs that's the only advice I have. But remember, just because its in SF now doesn't mean it won't be in your town in a month or two. You know the vaccine is not a viable option for your family, so I don't think anything is changed. Pertussis is scary, but with proper management (which you know all about!) it should be much more mild. 

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Of all the VPD's out there, this is the one that strikes fear in my heart, especially with an infant.

Here is the heart of our problem with pertussis. Pertussis is LABELED a "VPD" but if anything has been PROVEN in the last year or so it is that "Vaccination" for pertussis does NOT PREVENT pertussis. In fact the "pertussis vaccine" has made pertussis MUCH worse on the individual and the human heard.

Just because you LABEL a thing does not make it into the labeled thing.

If you learn the FACTS about pertussis; learn how to protect your babies and family you will not only feel better but more importantly provide the protection your family needs.

“Here are a few functions of vitamin C, using whooping cough as the example: 1) The front line function of vitamin C is to bond with, and neutralize, circulating toxin, …. With whooping cough, the body manages the toxin until it runs out of vitamin C. Then the toxin builds up, the cough intensifies, and there is breakthrough into the blood. In babies with subclinical scurvy, (which the doctors never recognize …) the blood brain barrier weakens significantly – which can result in toxin going into the brain.” 

Vitamin C for Whooping Cough. Updated Edition. Suzanne Humphries, MD

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1359460/whooping-cough-paranoia

http://www.vaccineinitiative.org/?page_id=149

At least five studies show an inverse association between lower respiratory tract infections and vitamin D levels. That is, the higher your vitamin D level, the lower your risk of contracting colds, flu, and other respiratory tract infections."      The Evidence for Vitamin D as a Primary Defense Against the TB bacillus , Note this includes viruses including deadly viruses such as H1N1 and other Political Pandemic bio-engineered viruses. 

“Vitamin D deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections.”   Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin A Toxicity, Frequent Respiratory

“1000 IU of Vitamin D3/25 pounds of body weight/day can abolish upper respiratory infections in your child.”   Doctor Doctor Ronald Hoffman MD, Note WOW!

"According to the research in this week's Archives of Internal Medicine. Among asthmatics, those who were vitamin D deficient were five times more likely to get sick than their counterparts with healthy levels. And the risk of respiratory infection was twice as high among vitamin D-deficient patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) than in lung patients with normal levels of the vitamin."   Scientific American, 23 Feb 2009

In short learn the basics about vitamin D and vitamin C both demonstrated to be exceedingly effective at pertussis prevention and treatment and you should feel fine and more importantly NOT GET PERTUSSIS.

Edited by Louisw - 9/29/12 at 11:10am

[Louisw]

“We’ve had over 90% baby vaccination rates for whooping cough vaccines for over 11 years…since 2000, AND they’ve included even more shots since then for the adolescents at the time… and yet more, after 2000… AND here we are with whooping cough in EVEN higher numbers than it was before 1960? Don’t you think that’s absolutely astonishing? …Australia, which has had over a 95% whooping cough vaccination rate since 2000, is having the largest outbreak in their history since pertussis vaccination started. The same is happening in USA, and their rate of vaccination is even higher than Australia. So what do you think is happening there?” – Hilary Butler   http://www.ias.org.nz/about/

Vitamin C for Whooping Cough. Updated Edition. Suzanne Humphries, MD

Folks if there ever was a time to realize the fraud of "vaccination" it is NOW with this pertussis vaccination deadly fraud. If you read the above document You cannot help but to conclude that pertussis is indeed a mostly VPD. a VITAMIN Preventable Disease.

The pertussis deadly fraud is not over IMO. Oh no a new and deadlier regime is coming; more worthless damaging "shots"; perhaps they bring back the much deadlier DPT as they are doing to the rest of Africa, India et al.

Knowing the facts about pertussis is our best defense against BOTH pertussis and the deadly fraudsters pushing the "pertussis vaccines".

[MrsKoehn]

I'll tell you what advice I got when my SIL and BIL thought their 18 month old might have it.

Vitamin C, Vitamin C, Vitamin C.

Garlic

Eccinacia or Golden Seal

Don't get run down

Exercise in moderation

Fresh air

Hydrate a lot

Anything else you can do to boost your immunity

Pray

[emmy526]

also, baby wear as much as you can...one mom i know of who's whole family caught pertussis, she said wearing the baby made all the difference in the world, as did sleeping propped up with baby on chest, sleeping like that for most of the duration.   She said it helped tremendously with keeping the phlegm from settling at nite.   And Vit C also helped with pertussis as well.  

[Marnica]

Thanks everyone

Yes I know about SA - I know how to treat it should I have to and Louis I know about Vitamin D (have my kids levels and my own tested every 6 months) I agree that knowledge is power but it doesn't make me feel better.(I wish it did) In fact i just learned that not only does the nanny (that cancelled on us) have it, but the 5 yr old that lives upstairs from where we are staying has it and FYI they are both up to date on the vaccine. So there is a very good chance we will have some sort of contact with this 5 yr old as she lives upstairs but Im going to try and avoid her like the plague!!

[HRJ]

If the 5 yr old upstairs and the nanny do antibiotics they are no longer considered contagious after 5 days of a Zpack.  And the Zpack stays in your system for 21 days.  We just went through pertussis.  My 7 yr old and 19 month old had it this summer.  Baby was 16 mos when she got it.  It wasn't as bad as I had it worked up in my mind to be.  A pain and an ordeal yes.  But no trips to urgent care or turning blue.  It would had scared me more if we had had a newborn.  Older child brought it home from school where 15 vaccinated kids had it.  Both my kids are unvaxxed, but my husband is up to date and got it too.  We all did antibiotics, and I don't regret it.  It DID help.  

[Marnica]

Just wanted to update. Trip went great. I decided to just get over it and not worry about it. We did not run into the kids upstairs. Hopefully we avoided any exposure at the airport!

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Just wanted to update. Trip went great. I decided to just get over it and not worry about it. We did not run into the kids upstairs. Hopefully we avoided any exposure at the airport!

I know about Vitamin D (have my kids levels and my own tested every 6 months)

Pertussis is endemic in the human herd. IMO it looks like it will NEVER be "eliminated" The human herd has lived with this pathogen perhaps FOREVER. We know it confers benefits as well as pain. Vitamin C appears to be very important in defeating pertussis.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1364593/the-end-of-our-pertussis-problem

May I ask what your vitamin D levels are please?

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Just wanted to update. Trip went great. I decided to just get over it and not worry about it. We did not run into the kids upstairs. Hopefully we avoided any exposure at the airport!

I am so happy you had a good trip. I think your decision just not to worry was a good one, it would have been my course of action too!

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

Pertussis is endemic in the human herd. IMO it looks like it will NEVER be "eliminated" The human herd has lived with this pathogen perhaps FOREVER. We know it confers benefits as well as pain. Vitamin C appears to be very important in defeating pertussis.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1364593/the-end-of-our-pertussis-problem

May I ask what your vitamin D levels are please?

 sure....last test about 2 months ago my vit d level was 77, Can't remember what my son's was. Last test was 6 months ago...in fact we are due for another. It was in the 70's though.

[pek64]

How are vitamin D levels checked?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by pek64 

How are vitamin D levels checked?

 bloodtest

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

 sure....last test about 2 months ago my vit d level was 77, Can't remember what my son's was. Last test was 6 months ago...in fact we are due for another. It was in the 70's though.

That is SO GREAT! God bless you both. Now that is 70 ng/ml correct. If the 70 is nanomoles/liter it is too low. To convert ng/ml to nmol/L multiply by 2.5

"Studies indicate that for proper health, serum vitamin D levels should be a minimum of 50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L), with optimal levels falling between 50-80 ng/mL (125-200 nmol/L). These values apply to both children and adults."

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-deficiency/am-i-vitamin-d-deficient/

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by pek64 

How are vitamin D levels checked?

The testing is quite tricky.

I never test. I make sure I get all the sun I can with NO sunscreen, hours and hours of noon sun/day in the summer. Of course at 73 I need about three times the sun as a 20 year old. If you are 30 or so you may only need an hour a day or so of noon time sun in a bathing suit. I take 10,000 IU of vitamin D3/day in the winter and get some good tanning bed time about once a week or so.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

That is SO GREAT! God bless you both. Now that is 70 ng/ml correct. If the 70 is nanomoles/liter it is too low. To convert ng/ml to nmol/L multiply by 2.5

"Studies indicate that for proper health, serum vitamin D levels should be a minimum of 50 ng/mL (125 nmol/L), with optimal levels falling between 50-80 ng/mL (125-200 nmol/L). These values apply to both children and adults."

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-deficiency/am-i-vitamin-d-deficient/

 No it's ng/ml. Don't worry Loius - You're preaching to the choir!! I know how important vit d is and get our levels checked every 6 months. I Try and keep the levels above 70 and closer to 80 at all times. Ive been as high as 90 at one point. I know toxicity has not been observed until one reaches levels approaching 200ng/ml. I believe the vast majority of Americans are vit d deficient.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

 No it's ng/ml. Don't worry Loius - You're preaching to the choir!! I know how important vit d is and get our levels checked every 6 months. I Try and keep the levels above 70 and closer to 80 at all times. Ive been as high as 90 at one point. I know toxicity has not been observed until one reaches levels approaching 200ng/ml. I believe the vast majority of Americans are vit d deficient.

Are you married?