For the "Greater Good" – At What Price?

[Louisw]

View the film "For the Greater Good"  online The Producers of this film are allowing a FULL and FREE viewing of this film.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/30/the-greater-good.aspx?e_cid=20120930_SNL_Art_1

But as we see with the pertussis deadly scam as BOTH individual AND herd immunity are often destroyed by "vaccination" JUST WHOSE "good:" is being served by "vaccination"?

Obviously NOT yours and mine and our "vaccinated" children who may have been harmed. IMO ALL "vaccinated" children may be harmed, Doctor Moulden teaches this, most of the time this harm is not visible to us or noticeable to our children.

Edited by Louisw - 10/2/12 at 9:48am

[Mosaic]

I think it's over the line to claim that all vaccinated children are damaged. Please edit that out of your post as I feel that is not respectful of other MDCers.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

I think it's over the line to claim that all vaccinated children are damaged. Please edit that out of your post as I feel that is not respectful of other MDCers.

Well we certainly have demonstrated here on MDC in the case of pertussis the following.

1) The "pertussis vaccinated" individual has inferior immunity to pertussis compared to the unvaccinated and is thus susceptible to repeated successful attacks by pertussis.

2) The "pertussis vaccinated" mother us unable to pass to her baby the pertussis immunity required to keep her baby from becoming sick with pertussis. Thus the "pertussis vaccine" has reduced our herd immunity to pertussis and has resulted in a twenty fold increase in babies sick with pertussis.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1364593/the-end-of-our-pertussis-problem#post_17126344

I understand your concern with the word "damaged". It does seem overly harsh. How should we state in a more respectful manner the damage the "pertussis vaccination", and by extension IMO all "vaccinations", is doing to the individual and the human herd ?

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

I think it's over the line to claim that all vaccinated children are damaged. Please edit that out of your post as I feel that is not respectful of other MDCers.

But it's ok for members to call all circumcised males "damaged" or "mutilated"?  Both are altering the body, and while I wouldn't necessarily call a vaccinated individual damaged, that might be another's opinion.  It's not respectful to my husband to be called mutilated or his sex life ruined forever, but that is allowed and encouraged on MDC.

[Mosaic]

From the vax forum guidelines:

While no one should be labeled as irresponsible or uninformed for deciding to vaccinate, neither should parents here who have chosen to not vaccinate be accused of irresponsibility, not caring for their child, or presenting a threat to others. Please respect each other and refrain from statements that are condescending, hurtful, judgmental, and belittling. We will not tolerate such things and because this issue has reached an extreme we will be more pro-active and quick to warn everyone for such behavior, which could ultimately lead to your loss of posting privileges here in Vaccinations.

If you have a problem with the circ guidelines, I first encourage you to READ them, as they categorically do NOT encourage members to use words like "mutilated": http://www.mothering.com/community/a/the-case-against-circumcision-guidelines
Second, you can discuss your concerns there or with an admin.

Louisw, last chance to edit. If you choose not to edit appropriately, I will have to remove your post which, since it's the OP, will result in removing the entire thread.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

I think it's over the line to claim that all vaccinated children are damaged. Please edit that out of your post as I feel that is not respectful of other MDCers.

Is my edit acceptable? TIA

I have nothing but respect and concern for the many parents conned into "vaccination". I am doing all I can to lessen the harm.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

I have nothing but respect and concern for the many parents conned into "vaccination". I am doing all I can to lessen the harm.

Of course I respect the rights of parents to "vaccinate".

But suppose I decided to cut off the little finger on my left hand, would not MOST MDCers be horrified and try to disabuse me of my folly. If you knew what I do of "vaccination" you would understand where I am coming from. I see little children who obviously have had too many "vaccinations" the dull look, the lack of inquisitiveness; my heart bleeds and I long to tell the parents STOP! None of my business, right? Just watch and pass on. Shut your mouth and watch autism double every 3.5 years. I cannot. I have the knowledge if not the skill to persuade people to LOOK HARD at "vaccination" and will continue to do it until I die or am thrown in the camps.

ALL vaccines are and have been causing ischemic (impaired blood flow) damages - to all - creating a plethora of chronic illnesses, disease, and in some instances...death. The injury from vaccination is additive, each  vaccination further injures.”  Doctor Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

"Vaccination mankind’s greatest sin can no longer be tolerated only abolished. We have reached a new era of understanding if we do not commit to a new means of treating infectious diseases Armageddon is at our doorstep.”  Doctor Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

Derailing microscopic blood flow is the key to many diseases. Every vaccination from infantry to adulthood causes the same damages in you weather you receive a diagnostic label or not the damages are additive. Mothers being vaccinated have fetuses or breast feeding infants showing the same damages leading to autism within hours."  Doctor Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

Each vaccination is causing silent strokes in EVERYBODY. Stop vaccinating these children.” Doctor Andrew Moulden MD PhD

"When you impair the brain blood flow by vaccination you can impair the respiration control center which can result in death, we call it SIDS."  Doctor Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

I think it's over the line to claim that all vaccinated children are damaged.

Yes damage is the incorrect word because OFTEN the harm of vaccination can be REVERSED. The child's body will most of the time repair any ischemic damage in fairly short order. Children are tough, still please be careful of the NEEDLES you stick into them.

[kathymuggle]

nm

[momtoafireteam]

I am a happy non-vaccinator and wont be changing my mind on that. But the only thing that kind of bothers me about the many articles you post on pertussis is when these experts say that pertussis isnt really serious or is 'non-fatal'. Honestly, I am living with a newborn who has pertussis and she came >this< close to death. A few times, actually. I am not saying that to be melodramatic, I'm saying it because when 'experts' start an article being flippant about WC, I mentally shut down against their argument- rightly or wrongly. 

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by momtoafireteam 

I am a happy non-vaccinator and wont be changing my mind on that. But the only thing that kind of bothers me about the many articles you post on pertussis is when these experts say that pertussis isnt really serious or is 'non-fatal'. Honestly, I am living with a newborn who has pertussis and she came >this< close to death. A few times, actually. I am not saying that to be melodramatic, I'm saying it because when 'experts' start an article being flippant about WC, I mentally shut down against their argument- rightly or wrongly. 

My understanding is that most who post about pertussis being not that serious are referring to children over 6 months of age. I think most know that to newborns it can be very dangerous, but I agree if a statement is made like that, it should be clarified!

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by momtoafireteam 

I am a happy non-vaccinator and wont be changing my mind on that. But the only thing that kind of bothers me about the many articles you post on pertussis is when these experts say that pertussis isnt really serious or is 'non-fatal'. Honestly, I am living with a newborn who has pertussis and she came >this< close to death. A few times, actually. I am not saying that to be melodramatic, I'm saying it because when 'experts' start an article being flippant about WC, I mentally shut down against their argument- rightly or wrongly. 

Well what is implied is that relatively few die from pertussis.

"Among persons of all ages with pertussis, 33 cases of encephalopathy and 56 pertussis-related deaths were reported during 2001--2003. Fifty-one (91%) of the deaths were among infants aged <6 months, and 42 (75%) of the deaths were among infants aged <2 months."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5450a3.htm

Pertussis is often referred to as a SERIOUS disease in that anytime the windpipe is threatened it is SERIOUS. Certainly pertussis can scare the living daylights out of parents. Vitamin C in the proper type and dose can lessen the breathing problems in less than a day.

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

Well what is implied is that relatively few die from pertussis.

"Among persons of all ages with pertussis, 33 cases of encephalopathy and 56 pertussis-related deaths were reported during 2001--2003. Fifty-one (91%) of the deaths were among infants aged <6 months, and 42 (75%) of the deaths were among infants aged <2 months."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5450a3.htm

Pertussis is often referred to as a SERIOUS disease in that anytime the windpipe is threatened it is SERIOUS. Certainly pertussis can scare the living daylights out of parents. Vitamin C in the proper type and dose can lessen the breathing problems in less than a day.

Would you suggest chewables for an infant then? 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Would you suggest chewables for an infant then? 

Several companies make vitamin C liquid for infants, including Enfamil (Tri-Visol) and Country Life.

From http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002404.htm:

Dietary Reference Intakes for vitamin C:

Infants

• 0 - 6 months: 40* milligrams/day (mg/day)
• 7 - 12 months: 50* mg/day

*Adequate Intake (AI)

[Imakcerka]

Huh, look at that Enfamil makes Vitamin C drops for infants.  I wonder if it's also in formula.

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Dietary Reference Intakes for vitamin C:

Infants

• 0 - 6 months: 40* milligrams/day (mg/day)
• 7 - 12 months: 50* mg/day

*Adequate Intake (AI)

This is nowhere near enough for a child sick with pertussis.

"Bear in mind that mainstream doctors prescribe antibiotics on the basis of 350 mgs per kg of body weight. So 250 mgs is miniscule, really. If I thought my baby was really sick, then I would calculate vitamin C for her at 375 mg/kg of body weight, and give that over waking hours, making sure that a larger dose is given just before night, to tide the baby over longer hours."

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/09/07/vitamin-c-for-whooping-cough-updated-edition-suzanne-humphries-md/

So for a ten pound infant we are talking about 1.5 grams of sodium ascorbate/day; double that for a 20 pound infant ect..

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Louisw 

This is nowhere near enough for a child sick with pertussis.

"Bear in mind that mainstream doctors prescribe antibiotics on the basis of 350 mgs per kg of body weight. So 250 mgs is miniscule, really. If I thought my baby was really sick, then I would calculate vitamin C for her at 375 mg/kg of body weight, and give that over waking hours, making sure that a larger dose is given just before night, to tide the baby over longer hours."

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/09/07/vitamin-c-for-whooping-cough-updated-edition-suzanne-humphries-md/

So for a ten pound infant we are talking about 1.5 grams of sodium ascorbate/day; double that for a 20 pound infant ect..

Louis, I think they're basing it on the amount of vitamin C found in breastmilk.

Except they didn't test the milk of a mother whose child was either recently exposed to pertussis or who had recently come down with pertussis, and compare it with other mothers.

We know that mothers make antibodies to whatever their babies are exposed to, as soon as baby's mouth touches the nipple, with the milk containing those specific antibodies within hours.

I wonder if the milk has a higher amount of vitamin C in it under those circumstances?  Or if it's not necessary if the mother is making antibodies?

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Louis, I think they're basing it on the amount of vitamin C found in breastmilk.

 The article states we should not rely on the mother's breast milk to deliver the vitamin C to the infant. Testing the breast milk for C is almost impossible on a practical basis. The vitamin C can be added  to expressed breast milk or co-administered while nursing..

[Louisw]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

We know that mothers make antibodies to whatever their babies are exposed to, as soon as baby's mouth touches the nipple, with the milk containing those specific antibodies within hours.

I wonder if the milk has a higher amount of vitamin C in it under those circumstances?  Or if it's not necessary if the mother is making antibodies?

The theory is you need BOTH the immunity from the breast milk AND large amounts of the anti-infective vitamin C to fight the ongoing pertussis infection in the infant. If the mother produced enough C the infant would not have gotten so sick. My guess is that the mother who cannot produce vitamin C also cannot somehow add extra C to her breast milk even though the infant requires it.

We also have  the "pertussis vaccinated"  mother not producing good immunity to pass to the infant. This places more burden on the supplemental vitamin C.  Of course breast feeding is still required for all the non pertussis specific immunity the even "pertussis vaccinated" mother will pass to her infant.

Most animals produce their own vitamin C as we humans once did. When sick we often produced HUNDREDS of times more C than when well. Now we simulate this by taking supplemental vitamin C in LARGE AMOUNTS.

In any case the vitamin C in large amounts supplemented directly to the infant cannot be toxic to the infant and has been demonstrated as an excellent treatment for serious pertussis infection.