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Confirming twins w/o ultrasound - Page 2

post #21 of 54
Gently, have you considered getting a second opinion from another medical professional? Several things in your story greatly concern me. The weight loss, still measuring 7 weeks ahead despite weight loss, the ketonuria- all are red flags. The fact that your MW had so much trouble getting fetal heart tones in a 20 weeks fetus is also concerning. That should not be so difficult. It could mean that she is just really bad at finding fetal heart tones (concerning) or that there is something wrong with the baby (God forbid).

Please reconsider this hands-off approach, especially since you are having a homebirth.
post #22 of 54
Thread Starter 

No, I haven't considered getting a second opinion. At 20 weeks I was measuring 5 weeks ahead, which I did at 20 weeks with my last baby and it evened out by 30ish weeks, I think at my 28 week appt I was measuring a couple cms ahead with him. Right now, the 7cm ahead is by my own measurement which could definitely be off! I started this pregnancy about 20 lbs heavier than my normal pre-pregnancy weight and at 13 weeks switched to a grain-free diet and that, imo, is why the weight loss occurred and my midwife agrees. For several weeks after cutting grains out I craved all things protein and wasn't getting enough carbs which I have since corrected. I'm no longer passing ketones, except for trace here and there if I've gone too long without eating. And I've gained some weight.

 

I don't feel that my midwife is bad at finding the heartbeat since she's been doing this for close to 30 years. She got it for a second with the fetoscope and then couldn't hear it again so she got the doppler. The first one she used was close to dead so she switched to the second one. It took longer than normal and it kept picking up my h/b but she did get it and it was nice and strong. She was in the right spot the whole time, the doppler just wouldn't get it. A couple weeks ago I bought a prenatal heart monitor at Babies R Us, which from my understanding is nowhere near as good a doppler and have gotten a strong heartbeat in the 160's every day.

post #23 of 54

I had no signs of twins until my 20 week appointment when I started measuring 5 weeks ahead (at my other two appointments I was right on track). At my 16 week appointment it took a long time to find the HB because baby kept moving, yet we still didn't have any indication of two HB. After the MW took my measurements at my 20 week, she looked around and found 2 HB. One lower in my abdomen and one higher by my ribs (but she had to really search around). Then we did a u/s just to confirm. 
I just found out about my twins a few days ago, but from what I read I would seriously consider getting a u/s. I was only planning on 1 this pregnancy and I didn't feel super happy about getting an unplanned one at the MW's office (but I seriously needed to confirm if it was twins for many different reasons). I think it is important to be informed for the sake of you and your baby especially planning a home birth (we are too, fingers crossed!). 
Please keep us updated! 

post #24 of 54

OP, I totally get that you want to be low intervention.  My last birth was a homebirth.  I saw a midwife and saw a practice of CNMs for awhile.  I did get the 20 week anatomy scan.  I think having one ultrasound in your shoes outweights the not knowing.  You don't have to commit to changing your entire schedule of pre-natal care.

 

If you need help finding a place that will do no/low cost ultrasound that you can do discreetly, I can try to help you out.

 

Take care and congratulations on your baby!

post #25 of 54
Thread Starter 

Thanks so much for your response!! Since I see my midwife in a week, I think I'm going to wait it out for the time being. If she's still undecided next week, then I'll take the necessary steps to get the info I need, hopefully DH is on board. I tried our crisis pregnancy center but they turned me away. shrug.gif There are 3D places in the area if I decide to get one. Thanks again!

 

And Ellie, congrats on your twins!! :D

post #26 of 54

Thanks, Josie! I hope your appointment goes well, and that you get a more definitive answer! I only have a few minutes of waiting before we confirmed via u/s and my head was already spinning. I can't imagine walking around for weeks not knowing

post #27 of 54
Thread Starter 

It is indeed tough not knowing!! Deep down I really feel it is probably one and that this baby is just bigger. I'm trying to tell my son (almost 5) that it is most likely one and he gets so upset each time and is insisting that it is either 2 boys or a boy and a girl. Poor boy! I'll update when I know more. orngbiggrin.gif

post #28 of 54
I'm going to share my story with you, because to be honest, my heart sunk here because your story is very familiar to me.

It was always hard to find the heart tones on my son Eli, who is 3 months old now, no matter who did it -- nurse, doctor, whoever. You'd find it, and then you wouldn't, and it was all over the place.

I was also huge. Enormous. I looked full-term pregnant by the time I was 6 months along. I chalked it up to the fact that I am very, very short. But by the time I was 33 weeks pregnant, I measured a full 40+ weeks, and my OB sent me for a specialty ultrasound at a MFM clinic to find out what was going on. We knew it wasn't twins, but I was a little iffy on dates, I thought I could be as much as 3 weeks more pregnant than the dates we were using. I figured I would just have a bigger baby because I was further along than we'd assumed, and I was totally looking forward to the extra ultrasound to get more baby pics!

Then we got to the extra ultrasound and the techs were kind of looking around all weirdly, and they weren't talking much, and we became concerned. I could see the measurements they were taking up on the screen, and they were all consistent with the 34 week fetus I was then carrying -- except for the stomach. It measured something crazy like 28 weeks. Weird, huh?

So they grilled me and grilled me about my glucose test (which I'd passed with flying colors) and my blood pressure (which has always been low, even when I was pregnant) and I was just like, WTF guys? Then they told me -- it was excess amniotic fluid! Psh, I thought! Whatever! I googled and it said it was usually nothing, just some extra fluid, the vast majority of the time. It could also be gestational diabetes, which I knew I couldn't possibly have, and there was a small chance there would be something wrong with the baby's digestive system where it wasn't swallowing right. I figured it was the Nothing choice. They sent me to a... fetologist? I don't think that's the right word, but a guy who was a fetus expert and did fetal surgery and all kinds of crazy stuff.

First, a tech did the ultrasound. She couldn't find a stomach bubble. Just plain couldn't find it. I was freaking out.

Then the fetologist came in and did his thing. He said he found the stomach, he saw the baby swallowing, he said everything was just fine. I had to go back for non-stress tests every week the rest of the pregnancy, but it was fine. Just severe polyhydramnios, that's all -- your normal amniotic fluid index is, I think, 15 to 20 cm. I had 30 to 35!!! They were going to just doublecheck the baby when he was born and make sure everything was okay. And we had to be really careful if my water broke before I went into the hospital -- when you have polyhydramnios, your baby never engages into the pelvis. But if your water breaks, the baby immediately engages into the pelvis, and there is a huge, huge, huge risk of cord prolapse and strangulation because it happens so swiftly.

Anyway. Eli was born at 39 weeks, and we chose to have a controlled induction and artificial rupture of membranes for his safety. He came out just fine, well, he had an extra thumb, but the pediatrician checked him over and said everything else was perfect.

It was weird -- he didn't eat for more than a few minutes at a time, but heck, he was a newborn! And he kept coughing up this weird foamy stuff. Everybody figured it was just crud from his respiratory system that didn't get squeezed out because he ended up being a C-section.

After being awake for 48 hours, I finally decided at midnight the night after his birth that I HAD to get some sleep, which I hadn't been able to do because I was paranoid he'd cough up some more of that crap and choke on it. So I gave him to the nurse for a few hours and she was going to bring him to me if he got hungry, and I was going to be able to get a few hours.

Our lives completely changed that night.

About 5 in the morning on July 25, a doctor came and woke me up and took a seat in my room. Eli had coughed up more stuff. And then he had aspirated the stuff, and turned blue, and fainted, and then had a seizure, and had bloody stool. He was only saved from death after the hypoxic episode and subsequent seizure by quickly being "bagged," put on oxygen and given immediate resuscitation. If we had been home sleeping that night, Eli would have died or have irreversible, severe brain damage. As quickly as paramedics come, they wouldn't have arrived quickly enough for little Eli.

I got to see my baby one more time before he was taken to the regional NICU for suspected infection. He was hooked up to so many horrible tubes and the oxygen and he was lying in a bili bed, his eyes covered. It was horrifying. We stood there and just cried.

They figured out what his problem was pretty much immediately. He had a condition called tracheoesophageal fistula with esophageal atresia. Basically, that means his esophagus came from his mouth and ended in a blind pouch and the end coming from his stomach attached to his trachea instead. The crap he'd been coughing up was colostrum that sat in the pouch awhile and came straight back up. That's why he never digested any of his amniotic fluid. That's why I was so big.

They were able to do Eli's lifesaving surgery on his fifth day of life, and though he spent over two months in the hospital, he is home now, eating like a champ, and very happy.

But if we'd ignored the signs, if we'd figured he was just a big baby or twins or whatever, and if we had been planning a homebirth, things would have gone very badly and very wrong for poor Eli. He would, to be honest with you, he would be dead today.

I tell you all this just to give you and your husband a very, very big reason that you need to go get an ultrasound and see what's going on. You need to check on things. It could be nothing, or it could be twins, or something, but this sounds so familiar to me, and if you have another Eli, I want him to be safe. I want him to be lucky. Please, please, please, for the sake of your little one, make sure everything is okay.
post #29 of 54

With one of my babies, we did not hear a HB at 20 weeks, and there was no mvmt. and my extremelly experienced OB sent me for an U/S. Turned out the placenta was based in the front, and covered the whole area, so it was impossible for me to really feel things then. Later in the pregnancy, when the baby was bigger, I felt more.

 

Good luck!

post #30 of 54

Josie,

I know you are wanting to avoid an ultrasound, but at this point in pregnancy I really, really think your midwife should be able to tell you if you are pregnant with twins regardless of dopplers or ultrasounds. Personally, Im not trained how to tell which baby parts are which at all and my babies are big enough for me to feel around in my uterus and know that something is in there besides just one baby. One of my friends is a midwife and she could feel exactly where both babies were two weeks ago (when I was 23 weeks. She felt right before I went in for a ultrasound just to see if she was right about location), so your midwife should be able to do the same thing at this point in your pregnancy.  The fact that she isn't concerned about it is a bit strange for me. Im glad you are seeing her in a few days, but if she doesnt order an ultrasound for you at that appointment, I strongly suggest you seeking a second opinion. 
 

Aside from issues you could have that pp's have mentioned even if it isnt twins, if you do have twins you will want to make sure that there is no TTTS or any other issues. There are more risks associate with twins, especially with mono-mono or mono-di twins, which you have no way of knowing without ultrasound.  It just seems like your midwife is taking this "wait and see" approach a little too far in my opinion and I worry that either you or your bab(ies) will be at risk because of her neglecting to attend to the issue. 

 

I'm also still beside myself as to why your husband is okay with a doppler but not an ultrasound. Is it just that he doesnt want to pay for one, or is he opposed to the act of getting one?

post #31 of 54
Thread Starter 

Talk du jour, thank you for sharing your story!!! I am so sorry that you and your little guy had to go through that. *hugs*

 

Holly, I haven't seen her since 20 weeks and no she didn't really look for two babies at that point. I measured five weeks ahead with my last baby at 20 weeks too. I don't even know what I'm measuring right now and feel that I'm probably doing it wrong and it is not as far ahead as I think. My DH hates the doppler actually. I got this http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2463326 at BRU and he gets upset when I use it and it is not a doppler. It bugs me, but I don't know what to tell you. I did try to get an u/s so obviously I'm open to it at this point. But I don't know what to do? Make up a reason to go to the ER and then explain a huge bill to DH? Go to a 3D clinic without telling him? I really don't know what to do.

post #32 of 54

Could you explain the risks of having twins and not knowing to him. For example, maybe show him the ttts website, or explain the dangers of mono-mono twins in a homebirth situation? Or show him information on polyhydramnios and explain that you will have to have medical care with any of these situations. Is there a chance that you qualify for medicaid if you wind up needing medical care? I suppose your midwife would still see you with di-di twins, but if anything else is an issue you might have to seek medical care instead.

 

Also, it does seem like you said that he'd be open to an ultrasound if your midwife thought you needed one. Can you call her and explain that you'd really like to see just to confirm that there is only one baby and that there are no problems like polyhydrammnios and explain that your DH isnt thrilled about it, so you need her to order one? I dont think she would be compromising her morals by doing that. She is there to care for YOU- a worried mom of 5 babies in 4 years. Dont underestimate your ability to know that something is different this time. 

 

http://www.tttsfoundation.org/

http://monoamniotic.org/

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/polyhydramnios/DS01156

 

 

Anyway, I know your appointment is in a week, and my advice would be to call her ahead of time and share your thoughts with her. 

post #33 of 54

I don't think I'm alone in being concerned about how your husband is restricting your access to health care. I think that parenting partners should definitely make health care decisions together, but he should NOT be making unanimous decisions about your health. period. 

 

Basically, you have a very easily solved problem here. There are some unusual things going on halfway through a pregnancy and an ultrasound would quickly and easily and fairly cheaply clear up any uncertainty that you and your midwife might be feeling about what is going on. I understand that some people believe there are health concerns with ultrasound, and don't think they should be used routinely, but you are not currently having a routine pregnancy. Getting an ultrasound soon will more than likely confirm that everything is fine, but on the rare chance that it isn't, you need to know. 

 

Anyway, this is the second or third time you've mentioned that it's your husband who refuses to let you get an ultrasound. Don't you think that it is problematic that he is making decisions about your health and your baby's health without hearing your input? 

post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFish View Post

I don't think I'm alone in being concerned about how your husband is restricting your access to health care.

 

 

nod.gif

post #35 of 54
Thread Starter 

Sure, it is problematic. He has control issues and this is not the only area in which they manifest. My weight/eating... Oh boy, I could tell you some stories! He hates pregnancy weight gain and recently told me since I started this pregnancy over my normal weight I have extra fat/muscle that my body should burn off instead of me upping my food intake when I'm hungrier. 

 

I will do my best in explaining the risks to him. He has a tendency to treat me like an irrational spaz when I am anxious about something. If I get to the point where my gut tells me that something is wrong, then I will do whatever it takes to find out. I'm not there yet, so that's why I haven't gone further.

 

I'll call my midwife hopefully later on. I'd prefer to do it when DH isn't around (he works from home) because he makes me nervous when I call her and he's nearby. :/

post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by josie423 View Post

Sure, it is problematic. He has control issues and this is not the only area in which they manifest. My weight/eating... Oh boy, I could tell you some stories! He hates pregnancy weight gain and recently told me since I started this pregnancy over my normal weight I have extra fat/muscle that my body should burn off instead of me upping my food intake when I'm hungrier. 

 

grouphug.gif that's crappy. You have had a lot of babies in a short period of time. Honestly, you probably NEED to eat more than you are eating because it's likely that whatever you have left over in your body is pretty minimal at this point. What's so awesome about him? I know you've had a bunch of kids with him, and leaving doesnt sound like it's on your mind right now, but I wish you were with someone who had more respect for you than that. 

 

 

I'm glad you are going to call- I agree that you should wait until he's not around to hear the conversation. 

post #37 of 54
Thread Starter 

What's so awesome about him, that made me laugh. ;) He has so many wonderful qualities. He's a good guy most of the time. Things have improved greatly from early on, believe it or not. We just have the same few issues we go round and round on. 

 

Believe me, I don't take any of his nutrition/pregnancy 'advice'. I up my food when necessary and don't skimp on fat, calories, protein, etc. I'd probably end up with IUGR if I listened to him. The thing is, he *really* thinks he's right. I seriously cannot understand how somebody could think it's ok to undereat in order to not gain, but in his mind it all makes perfect sense. Sigh. It's frustrating talking about this! He used to be much worse.

post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by josie423 View Post

Sure, it is problematic. He has control issues and this is not the only area in which they manifest. My weight/eating... Oh boy, I could tell you some stories! He hates pregnancy weight gain and recently told me since I started this pregnancy over my normal weight I have extra fat/muscle that my body should burn off instead of me upping my food intake when I'm hungrier. 

 

I will do my best in explaining the risks to him. He has a tendency to treat me like an irrational spaz when I am anxious about something. If I get to the point where my gut tells me that something is wrong, then I will do whatever it takes to find out. I'm not there yet, so that's why I haven't gone further.

 

I'll call my midwife hopefully later on. I'd prefer to do it when DH isn't around (he works from home) because he makes me nervous when I call her and he's nearby. :/

I'm sorry. :(  This is sad to read.  I hope you realize that he is COMPLETELY off base with this, and that this type of controlling behaviour is not ok.  Please get an ultrasound. Let him be angry. It's not HIS life that might be compromised should something be amiss. hug2.gif

post #39 of 54
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I realize he's off base. We've been married for almost 6 years, so I guess I've just gotten used to it. 

post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by josie423 View Post

Talk du jour, thank you for sharing your story!!! I am so sorry that you and your little guy had to go through that. *hugs*

 

Holly, I haven't seen her since 20 weeks and no she didn't really look for two babies at that point. I measured five weeks ahead with my last baby at 20 weeks too. I don't even know what I'm measuring right now and feel that I'm probably doing it wrong and it is not as far ahead as I think. My DH hates the doppler actually. I got this http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2463326 at BRU and he gets upset when I use it and it is not a doppler. It bugs me, but I don't know what to tell you. I did try to get an u/s so obviously I'm open to it at this point. But I don't know what to do? Make up a reason to go to the ER and then explain a huge bill to DH? Go to a 3D clinic without telling him? I really don't know what to do.

 

I would try the 3D clinic. We have one here that has a $50 gender package. That would definitely be a way to see if there is more than one and they check for things beyond just the sex so the techs could definitely see if something was going on that shouldn't be.

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