chicken pox vaccine

[Ambivalent Dreams]

I'm not asking about vaccines in general - I'm asking about the chicken pox vaccine specifically.  Do you have any beef with this vaccine? If yes, what?  Do you have any health concerns about giving it to your child?

[tonttu]

No , not at all , on the contrary !

My 4 older kids got cp when my DS1 was 6 , DS2 was 5 and DS3 was 3 , they were all okay with it , sick for a few days , but not horribly so  .

DD 1 one th other hand was about 7 months old , was still almpost exclusively bf and I have a very high immunity against CP , which had been checked in a blood test about a year earlier , since I was exposed to it , when I was about 2 months pregnant with her .

She was gravely ill for several weeks , spent 4 days in ICU , and almost died from it .

So needless to say , when DD2 and DD3 came along , they both received their CP shot . 

DD2 has been exposed to a couple of cases in her play group , and she didn´t catch it , so the vaccine obviously worked ,and apart from a few small blisters a few days after giving the vacc in DD2 and both of them being tired the day of the shot , we have had no problems whatsoever .

And if I would ever have another child , or do it over with my older kids ( when it was unfortunately not available yet ) , I would DEFINITELY get it again !  

[kathymuggle]

Yes - I have a beef with it.  I think it is increasing the rate of shingles among those who had wild chicken pox - and will continue to do so for about 50 years.  I am not going to ask a person not to vaccinate for it, because I am not going to ask a parent to accept the risk of CP to benefit another group.  As a non-vaxxer, I don't like being asked to put my child at risk for other groups.   

All of the above assume the vaccines are not mandatory (school or otherwise).  This is thankfully the case where I live.

If rules are made that make it difficult for me to be non-vax because being non-vax affects other people, well then, likewise should apply for the CP vaccine.  Vaccinating for CP adversely affects other people.  Sadly, this is not the case because there is a bias towards all vaccines (despite the fact that all vaccines and all VPDs are NOT created equal)

I am also somewhat concerned with the hygiene theory.  As we slowly lessen or eliminate one disease after another, we do not give children's immune systems a chance to "practice" dealing with benign childhood diseases.  I worry what the repercussions of this might be.  Maybe there are enough viruses and the like going around that this is not an issue - but we add to the vaccine schedule constantly and many vaccines are in the works.  

I had the CP at 9 - it was mild

DS had it at 3.5 - mild

DD had it at 6 months - mild - moderate.

[andisunshine]

Yes, I have a problem with varicella vaccine.  In addition to the concern about shingles and the efficacy of the vaccine wearing off, chicken pox vaccine uses aborted fetal tissue in the process of manufacture. 

http://www.wvve.info/issues/abortion.html

[emmy526]

Chicken pox vaccine associated with shingles epidemic

Published on September 1, 2005 at 5:52 PM · 17 Comments

[shiningpearl]

My biggest concern is for all these children who get vaccinated, and then when the vaccine wears off (and it does wear off) and they don't get boosters like a lot of adults they are then likely to get Chicken pox as an adult, as it happened to me, (granted, it would have happened to me even with out getting the vaccine because I some how escaped childhood with out getting them) I was much sicker then both of my kids put together and I'm not even talking about spots and itchiness.   
Also, most cases of chicken pox that kids have are from the vaccine actually causing the pox.  

[ma2two]

The chickenpox vaccine has increased shingles, and not only in adults and the elderly, who no longer get the necessary exposure to chickenpox in the community to keep their immunity high.

The chickenpox vaccine has increased shingles in children who have gotten the chickenpox vaccine! Shingles used to be unheard of in children, but now it is no longer rare at all in children who have gotten the vaccine. The reason is because the chickenpox vaccine introduces the live virus into the body, where it will remain forever, but the immunity it creates is much weaker than what the actual disease creates. Therefore, soon after receiving the vaccine, the children are in the situation where they need an immunity booster from exposure in the community, or a booster shot, or else they are at risk of getting shingles, especially if their immune system is compromised in any way. That could be something as simple as temporary stress, lack of sleep, or some other illness.

The chickenpox vaccine contains human DNA. Even if you are pro-choice, you may not be comfortable with your child being injected with DNA from an aborted human fetus. The human DNA is listed on the first page of the package insert as, "residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein" 

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM142813.pdf

About MRC-5:

http://www.viromed.com/services/product/mrc5.htm

Both my children had natural chickenpox from going to a chickenpox party.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

The chickenpox vaccine has increased shingles in children who have gotten the chickenpox vaccine! 

Do you have a link for this?

I went looking for one, and could not find it.  I did find this - and while it did not discuss children vaccinated for CP getting shingles - there were oodles of comments underneath from parents saying their vaccinated child got shingles.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx?

[tonttu]

One thing , that stood out to me , was " adults that get in contact with children , suffering from cp , get a natural booster , that helps prevent shingles " No , they do get shingles , if they didn´t have cp or the vaccine 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Do you have a link for this?

I went looking for one, and could not find it.  I did find this - and while it did not discuss children vaccinated for CP getting shingles - there were oodles of comments underneath from parents saying their vaccinated child got shingles.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx?

[kathymuggle]

tonntu....it looks like those vaccinated for chicken pox can get shingles.

Here is what the very mainstream  http://www.vaccineinformation.org/varicel/qandavax.asp   has to say:

"Can the vaccine cause herpes zoster (shingles)?
Yes, this is possible. The risk of zoster following vaccination appears to be less than that following infection with the varicella virus. The majority of cases of shingles following vaccine have been mild and have not been associated with serious complications."

[tonttu]

Thank you !

You have " wild " CP , suffer through it , get over it ( hopefully ) with little or sometimes no side effects , then , when you are older , you can get shingles if you are in touch with somebody , who has CP

You get the vaccine and you don´t suffer needlessly from CP , but there is still a chance , that you can get shingles . 

So , really , getting the vacc still makes sense , if it saves you from suffering at least from one of those 

[emma1325]

There's no research examining the long term safety of the vaccine.  That's my major concern.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by tonttu 
=

You have " wild " CP , suffer through it , get over it ( hopefully ) with little or sometimes no side effects , then , when you are older , you can get shingles if you are in touch with somebody , who has CP

Shingles comes out when you are stressed/feeling run down - it has nothing to do with being in contact with someone who has chicken pox.

[tonttu]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Shingles comes out when you are stressed/feeling run down - it has nothing to do with being in contact with someone who has chicken pox.

Okay , then we can stop blaming the CP vaccine as the reason for a rise in shingles . You just said it , the 2 have nothing to do with each other 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

Okay , then we can stop blaming the CP vaccine as the reason for a rise in shingles . You just said it , the 2 have nothing to do with each other 

Every time a person who had wild chicken pox (and perhaps the chicken pox vaccine - I do not know)  comes in contact with someone who has chicken pox, they experience an immune boost.   Their body recognizes the chicken pox and has an immune response to it.  This immune response seems to lower the risk of shingles.

What is happening at the moment is that chicken pox is declining.  People are not getting the immune boost they used to.  We are seeing a spike in the shingles rate,  it is occurring in younger people - and many believe it is due to the decrease in wild chicken pox floating around.

Shingles is more dangerous than CP.

Here is a link: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/03/health/03vaccine.html?_r=0

"After people have chickenpox, the virus remains dormant, held in check by the body's immune system. But sometimes it becomes active again, particularly in elderly people or those with compromised immune systems.

There is already evidence that exposure to children with chickenpox helps act like a booster shot to the immune system, keeping shingles from occurring.

Mothers caring for children with chickenpox experience an increase in immunity against the virus, as shown by measurements of their blood. And a study by researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine that compared 244 people with shingles with controls without the disease found that people who had the most contact with children had one-fifth the risk of shingles of those with the least exposure."

Edited by kathymuggle - 10/10/12 at 6:20pm

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Every time a person who had wild chicken pox (and perhaps the chicken pox vaccine - I do not know)  comes in contact with someone who has chicken pox, they experience an immune boost.   Their body recognizes the chicken pox and has an immune response to it.  This immune response seems to lower the risk of shingles.

It is also the case for those with vaccine induced immunity. Works in exactly the same way as a booster vaccine. That's why the information about how long CP vaccination confers immunity is under question, since the tests were done at a time with a much higher rate of CP circulation in the US population. Also this probably applies to the common knowledge about how long having a case of CP grants you immunity. 

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by tonttu 

Thank you !

You have " wild " CP , suffer through it , get over it ( hopefully ) with little or sometimes no side effects , then , when you are older , you can get shingles if you are in touch with somebody , who has CP

You get the vaccine and you don´t suffer needlessly from CP , but there is still a chance , that you can get shingles . 

So , really , getting the vacc still makes sense , if it saves you from suffering at least from one of those 

nm Kathy already said it!

[Ambivalent Dreams]

Good food for thought, everyone.  Thank you.  So, I guess the take home message is that if you choose to vaccinate you should definately get boosters and/or have your kids hang out with kids who have chicken pox.  And if you don't vaccinate, you should expose your kids to wild CP and then keep having CP playdates to get an immune boosts.