Your child vs "The Greater Good"

[Mirzam]

I thought this was an excellent article which contains a great deal of information - do follow the links and watch the videos.

http://vaxtruth.org/2011/09/vaccinations-your-child-vs-the-greater-good/

[kathymuggle]

Thanks, Mizram.

I followed this link (love the title!) and thought it was great.

http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/we-are-anti-vaccine-wackos-its-just-what-we-do/

I appreciated how it spoke of how some people were initially forced into an all or nothing position - often by how exemptions were laid out, or by doctors who were reluctant to work with people who questioned vaccines.

I suspect strongly that if a system is immovable when confronted by a sel/del parents - the parents (assuming they have the resources) are more likely to move towards not vaxxing than vaxxing.  No one likes having their hand forced.  I think all parents want parental choice (at least for themselves; some do not think others should have it)

Edited by kathymuggle - 10/8/12 at 11:40am

[Taximom5]

Brilliant!

It's so obvious, isn't it, that science is actually showing that vaccines are NOT safe and effective, while the pharmaceutical industry is doing their best to pull off  "Tobacco Science" and convince everyone to buy their products.

[prosciencemum]

Quote:

It's so obvious, isn't it, that science is actually showing that vaccines are NOT safe and effective, while the pharmaceutical industry is doing their best to pull off  "Tobacco Science" and convince everyone to buy their products.

Not at all to me. And I am here, and I do listen to all the things which are posted here from anti-vax sources. And I'm completely unconvinced. I'll have to go back to the conspiracy theory point. If a person is are anti-vax the only way I can understand it is that either they think that all doctors/nursers/scientists working in health are stupid and being duped by the pharamacuetical companies, or they think they're all in it together and it's a massive conspiracy to harm children. 

The best discussion of this I've found is by Science at Home blog: http://science-at-home.org/conspiracy/

And it's for a tiny profit (on pharmaceutical company scales) too. For example: 

This article: http://www.jhsph.edu/news/magazine/archive/Mag_Fall02/vaccines.html

from John's Hopkins (about vaccine shortages) claims: 

Quote:

Vaccines are dramatically less profitable than other drugs. In March, Science reported that GlaxoSmithKline, the world’s largest vaccine manufacturer, enjoyed worldwide vaccine sales of $4.3 billion. Contrast that figure with the profits of one drug, the cholesterol-lowering Lipitor, which grosses $6 billion a year. According to IMS Health, a pharmaceutical intelligence service, vaccines comprise only 1 to 2 percent of global pharmaceutical sales.

I just can't see how it's worth it to them. Yes I agree they have some dubious practices, but I'd be getting more angry about the huge price of cancer drugs and why they spend so much money researching viagra and so little on malaria - not the vaccination program which has saved literally millions. 

Edited to remove anything which looks a "little personal". :)

Edited by prosciencemum - 10/9/12 at 5:54am

[Mosaic]

prosciencemom, this post is getting a little personal. You can disagree with a comment without suggesting that the person who made it thinks badly of others. The fact-based portions of your post are fine.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Not at all to me. And I am here, and I do listen to all the things you guys post from anti-vax sources. And I'm completely unconvinced. I'll have to go back to the conspiracy theory point. Either you think that all doctors/nursers/scientists working in health are stupid and being duped by the pharamacuetical companies, or you think they're all in it together and it's a massive conspiracy to harm children. Which is it? 

Bolding mine.

"You guys" is painting with fairly broad strokes.

In any event: no to the conspiracy theory thing.    You have done your research, I have done mine (most of which came from such places as CDC, Who, Cochrane, Pubmed)  and we have come to different conclusions.  That is it.

I don't love pharmaceutical companies…but I don't love most large corporations.  Their primary goal is money - they are not your friends, and they are not in it for your interests.  

As per doctors/scientist/nurses being stupid and duped…nah.  I think some doctors and nurses are very knowledgable on vaccines - and some are not.  It somewhat depends on where their interests lie.  I expect most scientists working on vaccines know a lot about vaccines - or at least the part they are working on!  HCP have a different mandate than parents when it comes to vaccines.  Their mandate is public health - and they definitely do consider things like herd immunity.  From that POV I completely understand why they are pro vaccine.  I have a different mandate - to protect my child. Looking at the known risks of vaccines versus the likelihood of catching VPD's and having a bad reaction from the VPD, I have come to the conclusion it is safer to remain unvaxxed.