Anyone else have tongue & lip tie laser revisions for an older baby?

[Beauchamp]

My son is almost 16 months, and we just had his lip and tongue ties lasered by Dr. Kotlow in Albany, NY. We're still having a very hard time nursing, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experience recovering, healing your nursing relationship with an OLDER baby?

He was gradually weaning and stopped daytime nursing in May except for rarely after a nap. Then his night nursing dwindled, too, along with my supply. I always knew something was wrong, but our old ped said he didn't have a lip tie, and he clipped his tongue at 4 days old (obviously it regrew/reattached!)

So, now we're not quite one week in recovery from the two laser procedures and still trying to nurse. No daytime nursing still, bad latch at night, but at least he nurses. The post-procedure exercises/stretches are awful, he cries so hard! It seems like he's so traumatized. He wakes up screaming and it's so hard to console him. He previously used a paci to sleep, and still does, but I wish he wouldn't, but he was so distraught after the procedures that we gave it to him again.

I feel like I am fighting to keep my baby nursing and losing. Anyone else?

[lifeguard]

Oh, that's hard. I had dd's tongue tie clipped at 4 months & the clinic thought that was old. We never got her lip tie clipped 'cause they wouldn't do both procedures at once & the clinic is a 5 hour drive from here so I pretty big deal to get to. I did find doing the follow up stretches upsetting 'cause it obviously was bothersome/painful for her but that passed pretty quickly. Tbh - I didn't find a significant improvement in her latch even at 4 months but I think the liptie was always the biggest problem (the clinic disagreed with me & I followed their judgement...)

Good luck - I hope it improves for you.

[Beauchamp]

Thanks. Yes, it's hard, and I'm blaming myself. We had his tongue tie clipped at 4 days old, and never assumed that would be causing our nursing problems, since it was "done" already, you know? And I asked our ped twice about lip tie and he said no, he didn't have one. Frustrating! So after months of slowly decreasing nursing, having problems, it NEVER being comfortable, much less enjoyable....I just knew something was wrong.

He's most likely our last baby and I feel like I totally blew it and our nursing time is ruined.

[LilMomma83]

Dr Kotlow us the best I the world....you will be in great hands! I'm going back for another revision for my 10 month old (more frenulum came forward after her1st revision with him) and also he will be revising my 3yo. Are you a member of "tongue tie babies support group" on Facebook?, lots of moms who had older babies and children revised on there and lots of information on homeopathics etc to help before during and after revision.

[Beauchamp]

No, I didn't know about the FB group, I will check it out, thank you! We saw Dr. Kotlow on Oct 3rd....so maybe someday I'll be NAKing again....a girl can dream...

[LilMomma83]

Sorry I read and came back later and forgot that you had already seen him..hope you can nak, soon also;-)

[Beauchamp]

Thanks. Good luck with your second revision. Yikes! I think one of the hardest parts for us at this age was that he is so much more aware than a tiny baby would be. When Dr. Kotlow came back into the little exam room later to show us the stretches my son LOST IT and started screaming when he saw Dr. K... I think a young baby gets upset, but is sort of what, huh? where's that coming from, that really bothers me! and then suddenly ahh, here's mama and moves on to something else, mentally....yk?

I'm not giving up, though. But I would still be eager to hear from mamas who had an older baby "revised" and how the post-surgery weeks went. The stories I read mostly seem to say how everything was amazing right away, immediately, and that's not been the case for us. But I'm holding out hope that things will improve slowly.

[dot1]

Subbing as I have an almost 12 month old with upper lip tie (looks like Class 3 or 4 and she has a gap between her front teeth...and tonight discovered a posterior tongue tie (seems to be a "Class 3" - not obvious until you feel it).  She has all the classic symptoms....except her weight gain has been fine (though she's dropped a lot in percentile the past few months for height and weight), and I think my tendency towards oversupply has been the reason for relative success breastfeeding (except the poor latch at times and back arching, etc.).  I had no idea about any of these things and have been seeing a a pediatrician about ongoing reflux issues, and have a referral to a pediatric allergist for some testing.  But I suspect it all goes back to the tongue and lip tie :-(  

Unfortunately, I cannot find anyone in Canada who does a laser treatment - the dentists all seem to require general anaesthesia to treat.

Beauchamp, I'm wondering how severe your son's ties are?  I hope more mamas who have been through this can weigh in on the discussion and give you hope!

[Beauchamp]

Ugh..I wrote a long response and somehow lost it.

dot1...I'm pretty sure he was class 3 or 4 on the lip. The tongue tie regrew and Dr. Kotlow said he needed to laser half an inch...so I think he was really in need of some help. I the past few days he's even started trying to say some words!! Before he just made little grunty sounds, and said 'mama'...no other words at all.

trying to upload a before pic...

[dot1]

Ugh - that's happened to me before too!  (losing a post)...

Thx for sharing the pic.  My dd has a similar upper lip/gap in teeth...maybe a bit smaller gap though.

Glad to hear there's been a bit of progress on speech.  By the time he's that age (16 month) I imagine that motor patterns have been learned (based on tongue immobility) and that they need time to "relearn".  Since the tongue is a muscle, it just seems intuitive to me that it might have some habits that are harder to break than in a tiny baby (who doesn't have as well developed motor areas in the brain).  Keep us posted!

[LilMomma83]

Is your little one seeing a chiropracter or craniosacral therapist? That really helps them gain function after the release. IT was about 2 months before I noticed a BIG change...it's not instant for everyone

[LittleLegos]

It sounds like you're right, your son does seem a bit traumatized.  But I bet he will get better.  Just with gentle coaxing.  I'd consider using some tips from when a baby goes on a nursing strike too.  I wonder if he'd nurse in a carrier while in motion.  Sometimes very distracted toddlers will do that.  Or in a dark room, or in the tub or shower.  Sometimes new places make it more novel.  

I wish you lots of luck and patience.  :)

LittleLegos

Mom to ds 2000, dd 2004, dd 2010

[AdinaL]

Not an older baby, but we had both lip and posterior tongue tie as well.  DD had them clipped at 4 weeks.  

She HATED the exercises.  Would scream her head off, but we kept doing it.  She is now 9 weeks and things are slowly getting better.  We still have clicking, and she still has some bad latch nursing sessions.  I think it takes a while.

I just wanted to chime in an empathize with how hard it is.  Craniosacral/chiropractic does help, if you can look into it.  

[dot1]

Beauchamp, how's it going?

[Beauchamp]

Ack, my response got deleted! Anyway...

I just found a new family chiro that I'm thinking of trying, although I'm not sure if at this point it will help. His tooth gap seems to be closing, which is good. We may have some reattachment under the tongue, so I'm going to get some new photos as soon as I can get someone to help me with that.

Night nursing is slightly better, but he's sleeping longer stretches (when is that a BAD thing?? when you're trying to get milk in at night!!) and so only nurses 1-3 times per night.

I'm still hopeful, and really don't want to go back for another revision. My husband is very opposed to putting him through the trauma again....

Here is a blog post I wrote on our experience with a 10-day post -surgery photo Trouble Breastfeeding? Look in your baby's mouth!

[dot1]

Thx for the update.  Good blog post!  I ended up getting my 5 year old AND 12 month old revised (by laser, a dentist who has been doing it for years - following Dr. Kotlow techniques).  Both had the Class IV lip tie (like yours) and a Type II tongue tie.  The 5 year old never had feeding issues as a baby, and nursed till age 3.5.  However, immediately after the procedure her speech was "cured"!  (could now pucker her lips for the "sh" sound).  Both hated the stretches and it was awful the first week.  Now the 5 year old asks to do the stretches!

However, I think we're probably also dealing with reattachment issues in the tongue in the 12 month old :-(  .  Her lip is fine, but I think I see new tongue frenum growing....and like you, just can't get her to open her mouth long enough to look.  I basically have to pry her jaw open for stretches.  No real difference in nursing and still dealing with some reflux issues.  

I'm kind of wondering if I should just let the tongue go (keep stretching) and see what happens with her reflux and speech development.  At least the lip is revised and hopefully will help with dental/speech issues.