Stop telling women that it's easy. - Page 2

[~Adorkable~]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 
Perhaps what we should be focused on is that it is worth the work.  It's hard sometimes, or it's easy sometimes, but it is worth it.

just what i was about to say, i struggled to feed twins, not because i had any one issues, i really didn't, i was blessed with amazing supply and healthy babies, but yet we pumped and cried and struggled for 6 months before we got it down, and now at nearly 2 we have other struggles, things change all the time. i have asked myself a thousand times why it is this way or that. but i have never asked myself if i should be doing it.

at some point for nearly everyone it can be hard, if your lucky it gets easier, thru out it all it is WORTH IT!

[Alenushka]

i only know one person who nursed without any problems at all. Everyone Else know had at least one issue.

Initially formula was not invented to supplant breastfeeding but because so many moms who had nursing issues were feeding their babies crap like raw milk with e.coil in it, bread mixed in wine or babies just died.

Nursing is hard.

I am glad I did it but I have many issues from sensitive skin to cracked nipples, from mastitis to thrush. I would never say it is easy and it is especially not easy for moms who work outside home. But yes, no one can;t complain about that either because "We all can stay home if we do not buy expensive cars or clothes"

[pek64]

I've heard that formula was invented to do something with the overabundant cows' milk supply; and it was created to replace breastmilk for women working in factories during the war.

[kathymuggle]

I had nursing issues with my first. It was a lot of work - and it was not easy.  I have never been so drained and tired (I was on a never ending schedule of trying to feed, failing, giving EBM in a bottle and then pumping.)  It ended as he aged and we got decent help (which took a number of tries with different LC to get) and he went on to nurse easily for the next 2 years.  But the first 6 weeks - not easy.  I remember literally chucking a book that spoke on how breastfeeding is easy, natural and blissful across the room.

My daughters nursed easily from day one.  Go figure.

I think what is most helpful is honesty - when breastfeeding is going well it is fairly easy for some of us, if it is not going well it might be one of the more difficult you ever do, and you might need help.  

Edited by kathymuggle - 10/23/12 at 6:16pm

[tiqa]

My first child I desperately wanted to breastfeed... and couldn't.  Long story, but let's just leave it at that.  I had no milk for him.  None at all.  (Found out later it was medical issues... whatever.)  I had the breastfeeding advocates tsk tsk at me and make faces because apparently "I just didn't try hard enough, and did I try this, that..." etc.  We ended up formula feeding him and life went on.

My second child, I again wanted to breast feed.  This time it went by the book.  It was a bit painful in the beginning and I got mastitis a few times, but it WAS easy for me that time.  Easier than formula, I guess.  So... sometimes it IS easy.  Sometimes.

So what was different between child #1 and child #2?  Was it me?  Was I better or more special ten months after my first child was born?  No.  Did I "learn" more?  No.  It was luck.  Yep, I said it.  LUCK.  Not skill.  Not "educating myself."  It wasn't a lactation consultant who saved the day, nor a pump, nor any herbs.  It was sheer freaking luck.

I will never judge a woman for feeding her kid in whatever way she does.  We will never know the whole story.  We will never know the issues she faces, even she might not face them consciously, they might be buried in her brain somewhere.  She might be working with no time to pump, she might be a sexual abuse survivor, she might have unsupportive family, she might just be really tired and burnt out, she might have hormone imbalances... WHATEVER.

I *congratulate* women who make nursing a goal and stick to it and put effort into it, in the same way I congratulate someone who runs a marathon.  Is everyone a natural athlete?  No.  Are some people?  Yes.  Again... that is luck.  You can have all the effort in the world and if you have exercise induced asthma (like me) your chances of running that marathon are pretty freaking slim.  Whereas you might LOVE running and with minimal effort you can totally run it.  But if you're NOT the natural athlete/breastfeeder/whatever, if you WANT to overcome the odds... good on you.  Awesome. I'll give you a cookie.  :)  But if not?   Eh.  Put your effort somewhere else... and don't let other people get you down.

[PhoenixMommaToTwo]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 


This kind of reply really isn't helpful - I have to ask though, did you even read the OP? It seems to me that you are saying everything she asked people not to.

Yep. And where exactly are you getting your information, FIBJ? 

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by pek64 

I've heard that formula was invented to do something with the overabundant cows' milk supply; and it was created to replace breastmilk for women working in factories during the war.

What war? Formula was "invented" (made commercially available) in the late 1800's. In the time of WWI most people were using raw milk because there had been mass contamination of formula on the shelves. Then, in the 1920's (after WWI) women began using evaporated milk formulas. By WWII, commercially available infant formula (even Similac) had been on the market for a good 15 years. 

[lah7]

I found breastfeeding to range from incredibly difficult to pretty easy, depending on which child it was, how old they were, how I felt, etc. 

I feel like one of the single biggest disservices we can do as proponents of breastfeeding is to say that it's easy, that it's natural, and that you're doing it wrong if it isn't.  Sometimes, the problems aren't a matter of something that you've done wrong, which can be fixed.  Sometimes, a child's mouth doesn't match a mother's nipple shape very well.  Sometimes, production isn't matched with demand, and sometimes, the emotional impact of breastfeeding isn't something which can be overcome.  We can tell moms that if they are having a problem, please as if there's something we can do to help, because a lot of issues can be worked on, but to sit there and rant over and over that it's easy is insulting to other women, inaccurate, and offensive.
 

[Kinza]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.

Breastfeeding is easy. It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.

I've bottle fed other people's babies including my grandson. It is much harder to bottle feed and care for a child when you don't have magic breasts that calm the child.

This post is really offensive following the original post. Just so you know, telling people their boob issues are not normal, then following it up with your lack of those same problems is rude, and the reverse of helpful.

I'm in agony every time I breastfeed my twins, and your post in no way improved my breast feeding experience. At least the lactation consultants who also didn't help, by the way, tried to improve things.

[Kaydove]

OP - I want to say good job for breastfeeding and preserving through the pain. You deserve to be commended and encouraged.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.

Breastfeeding is easy. It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.

I've bottle fed other people's babies including my grandson. It is much harder to bottle feed and care for a child when you don't have magic breasts that calm the child.

Breastfeeding Judging people is easy. It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.

[Youngfrankenstein]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

Almost all women could breastfeed without significant difficulty. It's not normal or common to have blebs, bleeding nipples, or thrush. I breastfed for 10 years and I never had any problems. No plugged ducts, no low supply, no mastitis, no thrush, nothing.

Breastfeeding is easy. It feels good. If it isn't or it doesn't then you know something is wrong.

I've bottle fed other people's babies including my grandson. It is much harder to bottle feed and care for a child when you don't have magic breasts that calm the child.

EDITED BECAUSE I WAS ASKED TO.

Nutella!

Edited by Youngfrankenstein - 10/26/12 at 4:24am

[AlexisT]

Originally Posted by pek64 

I've heard that formula was invented to do something with the overabundant cows' milk supply; and it was created to replace breastmilk for women working in factories during the war.

Not true.

Henri Nestlé invented his formula in the 1870s (he wasn't first, though, Liebig was). It was not the first infant food. There were other baby foods sold, but they were made of starch. Nestlé's motivation was the high death rate of infants. Victorian era doctors advised early weaning from the breast and feeding some pretty awful things to babies. 

Evaporated milk and Karo recipes appeared in the early 20th century (evaporated milk was sterile and thus safer than fresh, which could be contaminated or adulterated) and the companies that made it advertised its use as formula. Even in the postwar era, a lot of babies were fed on these formulas in North America--commercial formulas such as Similac were competing with that as much as breastfeeding. 

Social changes spurred higher use of formula, but that wasn't why it was created. 

[kathymuggle]

I agree with FIBJ that if BFing is difficult, something often is wrong.  This would certainly hold true on a medical level - if you get Mastitis over and over again, thrush, etc…something probably is wrong.   I am not touching or judging emotional reasons BFing might be difficult with a 10 foot pole, lol.

That being said, there is no way on earth I would say this to a woman who was struggling with BF.  When you are struggling with BF, it is hard.  Going on about the natural, easy bliss of BFing when the woman in front of you is on the verge of emotion and physical breakdown is not compassionate or helpful. 

[savithny]

Originally Posted by AlexisT 

Not true.

Henri Nestlé invented his formula in the 1870s (he wasn't first, though, Liebig was). It was not the first infant food. There were other baby foods sold, but they were made of starch. Nestlé's motivation was the high death rate of infants. Victorian era doctors advised early weaning from the breast and feeding some pretty awful things to babies. 

Evaporated milk and Karo recipes appeared in the early 20th century (evaporated milk was sterile and thus safer than fresh, which could be contaminated or adulterated) and the companies that made it advertised its use as formula. Even in the postwar era, a lot of babies were fed on these formulas in North America--commercial formulas such as Similac were competing with that as much as breastfeeding. 

Social changes spurred higher use of formula, but that wasn't why it was created. 

Yep, yep, yep.

Among other things, many priests (especially in France) taught that a woman had to wean to resume sexual relations with her husband.   Because of this stricture, and because of class issues, almost all women except the brutally poor weaned their babies VERY early.  The rich and some of the middle classes hired wet nurses, but thousands of babies were weaned to very, very, inadequate substitutes of mixtures of cows milk and grain.    What started as the perogative of the elite (sending babies to wet nurses) became what everyone wanted to do (or needed to do; women in cities were working).    In 1780, only 700 babies out of 21,000 born in one city were nursed by their mothers.  The rest went to wet nurses, where the death rate was astronomical.  

The tradition of wet-nursing continued unitl WWI in France, and was ultimately supervised by the government to try to lower the death rate.   Between 1874 and 1914, 80,000 babies were placed with wet nurse bureaus, with a 15% death rate (this was half the previous death rate of 30%).   

Given those circumstances, its not surprising that the demand for breastmilk subsitutes led to the creation of them, and formula was not somehow invented by dastardly dairy farmers seeking to push their surplus milk on the unsuspecting, happily-breastfeeding populace.

[amma_mama]

Foreverinbluejeans, I have to bite my tongue here in order to not get banned. Your post was so insensitive and offensive that it is hard to know where to start.

OP, I had to give up trying to BF after the first month. I was terribly guilt-ridden during the first month because my boobs would just not cooperate, DD could not latch onto my flat nipples even with a shield, and an hour of pumping got me little more than a few drops. I tried everything that I could within my means and I just could not do it. It is most definitely not easy for everybody. I am still pro-BF, but recognize that it does not always work out to be possible or easy.

[Twinklefae]

Foreverinbluejeans, that wasn't kind, and has been shown to be counterproductive when encouraging more women to breastfeed.

My province now has a program called 'The first 6 weeks' which focuses on how women and babies need to learn to nurse, as it is not instinctive and may take practice.  The point is that because for so many women it gets easier by 6 weeks that they are encouraging people to stick it out that long and see.

[stiss]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

just what i was about to say, i struggled to feed twins, not because i had any one issues, i really didn't, i was blessed with amazing supply and healthy babies, but yet we pumped and cried and struggled for 6 months before we got it down, and now at nearly 2 we have other struggles, things change all the time. i have asked myself a thousand times why it is this way or that. but i have never asked myself if i should be doing it.

at some point for nearly everyone it can be hard, if your lucky it gets easier, thru out it all it is WORTH IT!

It's only worth it if it doesn't cause excessive distress to the mother. Which sometimes, it does. I had a breast reduction before getting pregnant. With both my kids, breastfeeding involved pumping every three hours around the clock for almost two months, after every feed. Each one of these feeds involved me taping a tube to my breast, dealing with pumped milk and formula in a leaky bag attached to said tube, and trying to convince a fussy preterm baby to latch. I had to continuously wash pump and tube parts in between these feeding sessions that often took an hour or more. That's in addition to all the regular breastfeeding pains and struggles.

With my first, my supply was about 30% at its peak. I cried for months about feeding this baby. I felt enormous guilt when I went out in public and took out a bottle, because it was too much work to do all the above in public. I felt like a failure and hated every minute of those first few months. Was it worth it? I really can't say. I suppose the only reason it was worth it was because I had a better supply (50%) for my second child, and I had more practice with that tube, and the baby was bigger and more accepting of nursing under these pretenses.

I have nice memories of both children and our nursing relationship. I have lots and lots of horrible memories, though. I am proud of myself for persevering, but I am still not convinced it was WORTH it, especially for my first baby. People tried so desperately to reassure me that I was doing a great job, but it wasn't until my second baby that I realized that success in breastfeeding does not have to equal being exclusively breastfed. Success in parenting doesn't have to equal breastfeeding, either. I am completely supportive of breastfeeding advocacy. I think that women need more support (both instrumentally, and through policy) to help them breastfeed their babies. I think that the public needs to understand that breastfeeding is an issue of public health, not just some optional choice. I also think that making informed choices should be coupled with having respect for whatever those choices might be. 

I think that judgmental, sanctimonious comments like those posted by FIBJ are the exact opposite of what breastfeeding advocacy needs to succeed.

[contactmaya]

OP, i totally relate.  I have 3 children, and  the 2nd two were easy peasy to nurse, because i knew how! My body knew how! With my 8mth old born at home, the first thing she did was go for the breast, and she nursed all night long, even though i only had colostrum. It was so easy! It didnt even hurt.

But with my first, a totally different story. I told people the same thing as you, it ISNT easy, it painful, its difficult, im tired! the baby wont latch! I called up a lactation consultant  several times in the middle of the night, who would come running trying to help the baby latch, to no avail, screaming baby!  i was told the baby was starving! (he was) My poor baby. I tried so hard to resist the EASY solution of giving him a bottle which he gobbled up. My nipples hurt,or they were cracked and bleeding, there seemed to be inadequate supply, i was exhausted, every bone on my body hurt. Blood, sweat, and tears sums up those first couple of weeks.

My 2nd and 3rd babies were homebirths, without drugs.  My first was a hospital birth, induced with pitocin.  My 2nd and 3rd slept by me the first night, but my first was whisked away to the nursery, and nurses pressured me to give him a bottle because i had no milk They tried to get it by squeazing my nipples which HURT.

 Why hadnt someone told me breastfeeding was painful and difficult?? I hated it when people said it was easy, they were just liars i thought, its ll a conspiracy, they wont tell the truth.

But i persevered with the right  support. One day, i told my mother, i give up, this is too hard, and my baby just looked at me, and then he  latched on, and nursed! (i knew that kid was smart) I cry every time i think about that. I was crying then too, and so was he.

From then on, it was smooth sailing.  It just got easier and easier. Then i watched as formula fed babies got their ear infections, and colds, smelly diapers, and their fussiness, and so on and so on. All i had to do was put baby (who self weaned at 5) to the breast. He never got an ear infection, he never got sick. He never had problems sleeping. I just nursed him to sleep. It just got easier and easier.

I too was afraid to nurse in public but my pediatrician said to me, just put him to the breast now,  and i did. And form then on, i wasnt afraid (funny, because i dont trust doctors particularly)  Sometimes it was hard to nurse a newborn in public, but i just did it, and got used to it. Its 2nd nature to me now, and i just nurse wherever i want.

It might be easier to use a bottle in the shortterm, but after awhile, that would get tiresome.

I am so grateful for the support i got. However, i do think the point should be made that it can be difficult, and that is NORMAL, especially when its your first baby.

[savithny]

The other thing to remember is that among primates (which we are) -- parenting behaviors are *not* instinctive.  They're learned behaviors, almost all of them.

The drive to "do something" about a crying baby is instinct -- but what we do about that urge is learned, cultural behavior.  

Which means that if you didn't grow up seeing women nursing around you, being matter-of-fact about it, demonstrating it by actions every day?   You aren't going to "just know how to do it."   The mechanics of nursing, the motions, the habits -- all of that is not instinctive, and does not just come naturally to everyone like it's been beamed into our brains when the cord is cut.

Mothers have to learn how to feed their babies. Babies have to learn how to feed.   Neither of those things automatically go smoothly, and when there are issues with both, it can be even harder.  

Also?  to ForeverInBlueJeans?   In general, "It was easy for me!!! It should be easy for YOU TOO!  Why ISN'T it easy for you??!!?? What are YOU DOING WRONG?"    is a complete logical fallacy.   Right up there with "My parents spanked me with wooden poles and I turned out okay!" and "They didn't even have seatbelts when I was a kid and I survived!"   

Your personal experience does not generalize to the population as a whole.