Anonymous sperm donor or known donor?

[samy23]

Which route did you use to become pregnant, and why was that the better option for you?

[pokeyAC]

Hi there!  I answered your question over in Queer Conceptions.  Are you thinking of trying soon?

[seraf]

Do you count ID release as anonymous or known?

We have 3 ID release donors and one KD. 

We felt like it was important for the kids to be able to know about their ancestry if they choose, so they can all supposedly know their donors eventually.

Our KD is a friend, but after our DD was born his family had a lot of feelings about it and it was decided that there would not be a repeat. So back to frozen.  

[granite]

I'm with seraf... What are your definitions? Our donor won't be known to us, but I hope that some day, if my (as-yet-nonexistent) kids want it, they can know him.

We're using a donor from a Canadian bank, where there is no option for Open-ID or ID release: The closest we could do was to select only donors who indicated they "would meet with donor offspring", though there's currently no framework in place to help this happen. Still, I'm hopeful that it'll work out. We chose this route because we wanted my spouse to be on the birth certificate from the moment the child arrives; if we had a known donor, that person would need to give up their rights after the birth, and my spouse would then have to adopt our child. We'd prefer to both be the legal parents from the start.

Just wondering: Why do you want to know?

[samy23]

Originally Posted by granite 

Just wondering: Why do you want to know?

Thanks for the replies so far, to answer this question -I have used a donor and didn't give too much thought about him being known or anonymous as I didn't know anyone in my life who would be willing to donate and didn't want to spend the amount of money to use a sperm bank, so I think my donor is sort of inbetween known and anonymous? I found my donor online, of course we had to meet up to do the AI's and I know his name and DOB, but other than basic information he is a stranger to me and there will be no further contact unless my child wants to find him when he/she is old enough. He has been a donor this way before too, and followed through with it, so that stopped me worrying about him changing his mind and wanting parental rights/access etc.

I think he would be classed as a known donor as I met him several times and know his name etc? So I'm just very curious what type of donors other women have used and the reason for wanting to use a known or anonymous one.

[redrockband]

We haven't actually started trying yet but are planning on using a KD friend of ours. We opted to go this route for a lot of reasons. Here are a few...

1. we wanted to know the other half of genes that would create our kids

2. money, we're both starting out in our careers and don't know how we'd pay for frozen from a bank

3. it just felt like the right thing for us after many many conversations about it

[SplashingPuddle]

Our preference was friend/known donor, but we also accepted the reality that we may not find a friend who would want to. Luckily we did.  Our daughter is 2.5 and I'm pregnant again with the same friend's sperm. 

[IVFwomen]

Using a knowable donor (ID release) is great. DC can contact donor at age 18.  Using a known donor is a recipe for legal and other problems.  Dr. Suzanne Pelka at UCLA interviewed lots of lesbian moms and found that in pretty much every case women who used known donors had problems.  What problems?  So many KD's change their minds and want parental rights, or their family members have issues.  Courts often rule against lesbian families and give KD's legal access to the kids.  If you want legal headaches, use a known donor.  Sure there are some people who haven't had problems with KD's (yet).  But Dr. Pelka's research shows it's far more likely to happen than not.  If you can't afford to buy tested sperm from a sperm bank should you really be having a child?

We did not use a known donor.  And open ID donors are not the same as known donors.  Known donors are people you know, who have access to your family and may end up with legal rights that limit your family's autonomy.  If you want your kid to know the donor, use an open ID donor.  Why put your family at risk?

[easttowest]

"Using a knowable donor (ID release) is great. DC can contact donor at age 18.  Using a known donor is a recipe for legal and other problems.  Dr. Suzanne Pelka at UCLA interviewed lots of lesbian moms and found that in pretty much every case women who used known donors had problems.  What problems?  So many KD's change their minds and want parental rights, or their family members have issues.  Courts often rule against lesbian families and give KD's legal access to the kids.  If you want legal headaches, use a known donor.  Sure there are some people who haven't had problems with KD's (yet).  But Dr. Pelka's research shows it's far more likely to happen than not.  If you can't afford to buy tested sperm from a sperm bank should you really be having a child?

We did not use a known donor.  And open ID donors are not the same as known donors.  Known donors are people you know, who have access to your family and may end up with legal rights that limit your family's autonomy.  If you want your kid to know the donor, use an open ID donor.  Why put your family at risk?"

I'm sorry, but this sounds a lot like the "every adopted kid will have problems" crap that we put up with while going through that process.  If using a known donor, you need to go in with your eyes open and have completely open and honest communication, but it's total crap to tell people that a known donor will cause your family to have problems.  As you stated, you didn't use a known donor, so what do you know?  Every family makes the decision that is right for them.  We used a known donor and wouldn't have it any other way, and I would never impose my beliefs on other families.

And if you can't afford sperm you shouldn't be having a child?  Seriously?  I can see you just joined MDC to make this one post, so I probably shouldn't be engaging with you, but that's some real classist (and homophobic) crap right there.  Hateful stuff that shouldn't be allowed on these forums.  Fertile straight people don't have to buy sperm, and no one tells them they shouldn't be having a child.

Sorry to everyone else on these boards - I couldn't contain my rage at this one.  Carry on.  :)

Edited by easttowest - 10/17/12 at 9:09pm

[samy23]

Originally Posted by IVFwomen 

Using a knowable donor (ID release) is great. DC can contact donor at age 18.  Using a known donor is a recipe for legal and other problems.  Dr. Suzanne Pelka at UCLA interviewed lots of lesbian moms and found that in pretty much every case women who used known donors had problems.  What problems?  So many KD's change their minds and want parental rights, or their family members have issues.  Courts often rule against lesbian families and give KD's legal access to the kids.  If you want legal headaches, use a known donor.  Sure there are some people who haven't had problems with KD's (yet).  But Dr. Pelka's research shows it's far more likely to happen than not.  If you can't afford to buy tested sperm from a sperm bank should you really be having a child?

We did not use a known donor.  And open ID donors are not the same as known donors.  Known donors are people you know, who have access to your family and may end up with legal rights that limit your family's autonomy.  If you want your kid to know the donor, use an open ID donor.  Why put your family at risk?

I can see your worry about using a known donor as I have the same worries myself. It was not an option for me anyway because I don't have any friends who are willing to donate. If they were, however I don't think I would take the risk with them. I would be worried they might change their mind once they see the baby or once they build a relationship with the child as an uncle or family friend etc....they might then start wanting parental rights. Also I fear their current partner or future partner might begin to change their feelings at some point along the road and influence the donor's feelings about wanting parental rights and visitation or shared custody. For me I think this is too much of a risk and would cause me too much worry. 

It must be extremely difficult for the known donors in these cases too, they can't help it if their feelings change when they are having contact with 'their' child while they are growing up, it is probably natural for them to feel a sense of wanting to be involved in parental decisions and spend time together etc. They didn't know their feelings would change later on when they signed up to be a known donor, that can't be predicted... so you can't really blame them for it can you? And I don't know what would be the right thing to do in that situation, to fight to keep sole custody etc or  agree for visitation and shared parental rights, it would be a hugely stressful situation and very difficult emotionally, I don't want to take the chance of this happening by using a donor who gets to see the child and is in their life.

I signed a contract with my (WTBK at 18) donor to prevent him changing his mind about anything, and I know he has been a donor a couple of times in the past too and not changed his mind about it so that gives me more peace of mind However if in the future he had a revelation and change of heart wanting to be involved, he would have to take me to court and challenge the contract we both signed.

The only way to not have this issue as a concern at the back of your mind for the next 18 years, is if you use a sperm bank I guess. This route is very costly though! 

And I didn't say I can't afford to use a sperm bank, I said I didn't want to spend so much of my money on using one. And no I don't believe if someone can't actually afford to use a sperm bank that they shouldn't be having a child/another child. Of course you need to be able to provide the essentials for them, but having lots of love and a stable safe environment is vitally important too. 

[seraf]

Not everyone who conceives with a KD has problems. 

[SplashingPuddle]

We realized there were risks/benefits of known, unknown, and open release donors. We chose a known donor because we felt we knew more variables that way. With an open release donor, there is no guarantee that the donor would "approve" of our lesbian family if they were in contact with each other when our daughter is 18 years. This would have been our second choice though if we had not found a known donor.  We also preferred a gay donor.  We did find a sperm bank of gay donors, but it seemed to have very few donors.  I see that there are advantages and disadvantages of both routes.

[carmen358]

We used a known donor for a few reasons.

1. We wanted our child(ren) to have access to their genetic background if they wished
2. And beyond that we wanted our child(ren) to have the chance to meet, or even have a relationship with, the donor if they feel the need to
3. Given our desire for #2 above we chose a known donor over an ID release donor because if a relationship was desired we wanted to make sure we chose someone that would be an amazing, positive person to have in our child's life and that we would feel comfortable having in the child's and our life. I am skeptical that we could really know what kind of person a donor is based on a profile (as detailed as they now are).

Our donor is amazing. He is the generous, compassionate, caring and considerate. He has no role in parenting DD but he has met her several times. We aren't in the same social circles at all anymore so we don't randomly run into him. He is totally open to a relationship with DD if she wants one and if she doesn't he's ok with the way things are now too. He did say after she was born that it was a lot harder than he had expected in terms of not being able to see her right away, etc (he was curious what she looked like, etc) but he worked through it really quickly and it has never been an issue. We're glad he told us how he was feeling.

We all signed a contract even with the knowledge that it wouldn't stand up in court anyway. As I said, we were very, very careful in who we chose. I know you can't predict how people will feel once a baby is here but I do believe having a long history/relationship with someone and knowing them more than an acquaintance gives you more trust and confidence than not.

I've heard way more positive stories about known donors than negative stories.

Granite, you mentioned you used an anonymous donor because you wanted your partner to be a legal parent right from birth. I believe your partner still has to adopt their child, don't they?

[pokeyAC]

We used a sperm bank and got a willing-to-be-known donor.  We had a profile and a picture, but it still feels like a bit of a crapshoot.  We don't know this person or his personality.  We have to have faith that we made a good choice.  With a known donor you also have to have faith that you are making the right choice.  None of us can predict the future, and none of us is all-knowing.  I don't believe there is any one right way to choose a donor or any truly wrong way.  Straight women have babies with "known donors" all the time who cause them issues later.  That is not exclusive to lesbian women. 

IVFwomen -I would like to see this study by the researcher at UCLA.  Do you have a link?  There are many women on here who used known donors and none of them have had custody problems after the child was born, as far as I know.  You are certainly welcome to come to MDC and share your opinions, but I'm disappointed that your first post alienated folks in your own community.  I agree with easttowest; implying that queer folks who would have a difficult time affording sperm from a bank shouldn't be having children is extremely classist. You can't put a price on love and family.  We are all driven by an intense desire to grow our families, and we all have different ways of getting there.  Having spent over $10,000 on sperm won't make me a better parent than anyone else here.

To everyone else - Thank you for your thoughtful responses.  I can always count on MDC members to keep the discussion going in a productive way. 

[hallerm]

I am so glad I joined this forum! Although I haven't made official choices about donors, I agree with pokeyAC and others above that there isn't a simple good or bad choice for anyone and in particular that starting families should not be a privilege accessible only to certain groups of people -- the rich, straight, or any other category. I also looked into this Dr Suzanne Pelka mentioned above (I'm a librarian, I can't help myself) and while she has published a very small number of articles in peer-reviewed journals, her research seems to speak to co-mothering experiences, jealousy between mothers and exploring the relationship of biological relatedness among members of lesbian-led families. I didn't see her speaking to a certainty of problems with known donors, and even if she had, one sociological study wouldn't be enough to determine something like this conclusive at all. 

[easttowest]

Thanks to everyone for your much more sane, thoughtful responses.  After going through the open adoption process for over a year, my wife and I are a bit sick of defending our parenting choices to everyone.  Our reasons for using a KD are pretty much the same as everyone else's, with the added benefit that it means my child will be genetically related to me.  Using my brother means we'll never have any questions about family history (any more so than if it was me - certainly, like most immigrant families, I can only know back to my parents for sure, grandparents slightly).  

I think every child has a right to know their biological background.  It's why I would only be involved in an open adoption and why I would only using an identity-release donor.  I don't judge people who don't; it's simply what works for our family.  Most children I know who were adopted or conceived through donor sperm have no desire for this information, but I think it's important to have it available for the chance that they might.  I'd also want a way to find out medical information if it ever became necessary.  We started by looking for identity-release donors at a sperm bank, but the more we looked, the more we realized we were looking for someone like my brother.  I didn't know what he would say, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask.  Now my wife is five weeks pregnant, and I couldn't be happier we went this route.  The way we look at it is that it was more work upfront (meaning that conception couldn't just involve the two of us, no matter how much we wanted it to) for fewer problems down the road.  We spoke for hours about any issues that might arise, and we're comfortable that we'll work through anything that does.  The added bonus was that if it worked in the first few months (which it did), we would spend far less on shipping his sperm than buying new sperm and paying for an IUI.  It wasn't free, but it took a lot of the burden off.

The caveat to this, of course, is that I am legally male, and my wife and I are legally married.  I will be the presumed father and be on the birth certificate from day one.  I think it would be difficult for my brother to have any claim to custody.  I certainly feel for women who don't want to wonder if they'll ever be considered a full parent of their own children.  

[SplashingPuddle]

My partner and I used sperm from our friend, and my partner and I are both listed on the birth certificate for our daughter from birth.  We did not have to do a second parent adoption or anything. We just submitted our names as her parents, no questions asked.

[nosreves]

Originally Posted by IVFwomen 

Using a knowable donor (ID release) is great. DC can contact donor at age 18.  Using a known donor is a recipe for legal and other problems.  Dr. Suzanne Pelka at UCLA interviewed lots of lesbian moms and found that in pretty much every case women who used known donors had problems.  What problems?  So many KD's change their minds and want parental rights, or their family members have issues.  Courts often rule against lesbian families and give KD's legal access to the kids.  If you want legal headaches, use a known donor.  Sure there are some people who haven't had problems with KD's (yet).  But Dr. Pelka's research shows it's far more likely to happen than not.  If you can't afford to buy tested sperm from a sperm bank should you really be having a child?

We did not use a known donor.  And open ID donors are not the same as known donors.  Known donors are people you know, who have access to your family and may end up with legal rights that limit your family's autonomy.  If you want your kid to know the donor, use an open ID donor.  Why put your family at risk?

sorry, but i don't give much credence to the claims of someone who has just one post on MDC and who is so obviously antagonistic towards us queers and the multitude of ways we choose to create our families.  this board is filled with people who are raising children conceived with KDs, and i don't think you'll find one story among them that mirrors Dr. Pelka's findings.  you've got your research paper by some academic and we've got the real-life stories of parents who have BTDT and who are still here doing it.  

as for the bolded question above... how about those of us who didn't have access to sperm bank sperm because we live in countries where giving reproductive assistance to lesbians is illegal?  i guess we shouldn't be having children either, eh?  is your "righteous" judgement about who should or shouldn't be having children also directed at heterosexuals. i doubt you'll find someone in our little group who has jumped into ttc without a great deal of thought, self-reflection and emotional preparation.  frozen sperm is not cheap by any means and neither is the medical assistance that is often required in connection with using it   are you really suggesting that people who don't have hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars to shell out on it every month should be denied the chance to experience parenthood?

to answer the OP's original question, we started out doing at-home inseminations with a KD that we met through a donor/co-parenting site, but neither of us was able to get pregnant that way.  ultimately, we ended up having to travel to a neighboring country to receive reproductive care, and our only option was to use an anonymous donor.  it wasn't ideal, and we would have preferred to have at least an ID-release donor, but it was all that was available to us.  

[pokeyAC]

hallerm - Thanks for doing the research.  That is very helpful.

[granite]

Originally Posted by carmen358 

Granite, you mentioned you used an anonymous donor because you wanted your partner to be a legal parent right from birth. I believe your partner still has to adopt their child, don't they?

I don't think she does, actually... Though I just asked DP her thoughts, and she says she can't remember! 

Hmmm... Maybe despite having chosen to "afford to buy tested sperm from a sperm bank", we should be excluded from child-rearing based on our lack of firm legal knowledge...

I jest, I jest.

Seriously, though, I'm 95% certain that the way it works is that when we're filling out forms for the birth certificate, we show proof that the baby was conceived using donor sperm from a sperm bank (like a receipt?!), and that's it: We are both on the BC and legally the parents.

However! As part of being clients of a fertility clinic and using donor sperm, we had to have a hour-long counseling session as mandated by the feds. The counsellor we chose (of the two who work with our clinic) was super sweet, and we had a nice chat about our plans for baby-making and parenting. She still advised that we hire a notary or lawyer to help us create a parenting/guardianship agreement even though we're legally married and will be legally the parents of our kids. It's for when we leave Canada: We drive across the continent to see our families in Southern Ontario every couple years, and usually go through the northern states, where our marriage and family arrangement may not be respected by local laws. The counsellor suggested that a seperate legal document could be vital if, heaven forbid, we were to get in an accident of some sort. So I think we'll do it, but otherwise it wouldn't be needed.