Stories of Vaccine Preventable Diseases - Page 4

[pek64]

You can see that your physics teacher might prefer to have the use of his legs, but cannot see that someone with autoimmune disorder(s) might prefer to not suffer?

Imagine for a moment that it is ten years in the future. Imagine that a connection has been found between vaccinations and autoimmune disorders. Imagine that all of the people you told there is no connection come to visit you. What are you going to say then? What will you wish you had said now?

I do not deny that some folks have serious consequences from some diseases. I wish those who are for vaccination wouldn't deny that some folks have serious consequences from vaccinations.

[Rrrrrachel]

No one denies that some people have serious adverse reactions to vaccines. That is established fact. However, that is not what this thread is about. I you'd like to discuss that there are everlasting other threads devoted to it (I actually started one a few months ago trying to nail down what kind of adverse events and how frequent people thought they were. Never really got any good info, maybe it's time to try again).

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

The point is not to vaccinate so that something bad guaranteed wont happen, it's to vaccinate to drastically lower your odds.

Problem is, the trade-off of the potential benefit is not well understood since long term risks have not been properly studied.

[Rrrrrachel]

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It is not the only reasonable conclusion.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

No one denies that some people have serious adverse reactions to vaccines. That is established fact. However, that is not what this thread is about. I you'd like to discuss that there are everlasting other threads devoted to it (I actually started one a few months ago trying to nail down what kind of adverse events and how frequent people thought they were. Never really got any good info, maybe it's time to try again).

That's because adverse events are treated like alien sightings by the mainstream medical community, kind of like side effects to cigarettes were regarded before available data was taken seriously.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It is not the only reasonable conclusion.

Finally! You admitted it *is* a reasonable conclusion.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. It is not the only reasonable conclusion.

Adequate long term research on vaccine risks has not been conducted...that is not an opinion.

[Rrrrrachel]

Yes, it is.  Adequate is apparently a matter of judgement, since I think adequate research has been done, or I wouldn't have vaccinated myself or  my child, and you do not. 

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Yes, it is.  Adequate is apparently a matter of judgement, since I think adequate research has been done, or I wouldn't have vaccinated myself or  my child, and you do not. 

You might have, since many mainstream medical authorities have assured everyone that some cherry-picked highly ethically conflicted studies are scientific proof of safety, despite the fact that there is an abundance of evidence to the contrary and zero long term studies which adhere to the scientific "gold standard."

[Rrrrrachel]

I have done research on vaccine safety, too. I am also an educated, empowered, discerning consumer of information, one with a research background who has taught experimental design, even.  I am not a sheeple who is just swallowing and repeating what her doctor told her.  We disagree on the quality of research on vaccine safety.  I understand that.  However, there is extensive high quality research on the subject, as well as on going safety monitoring of vaccines on the market.  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "gold standard," but I assume you mean double blind placebo controlled study.  Insisting on such a study as the only acceptable form of scientific evidence is an oversimplification of research methods and the reality of how research is actually done.

You are entitled to your opinion. Please don't belittle mine.

[Rrrrrachel]

Anyway, to get back on topic, I came across these statistics, which seem relevant:

Quote:

Our investigations looked at hundreds of thousands of children in Colorado and compared the risk of various vaccine-preventable diseases in children whose parents had refused or delayed vaccines, compared with children whose parents had had them vaccinated. We found that unvaccinated children were roughly 23 times more likely to develop whooping cough, nine times more likely to be infected with chicken pox, and 6.5 times more likely to be hospitalized with pneumonia or pneumococcal disease than vaccinated children from the same communities.

Quote:

One out of every 20 previously healthy children who get the measles will come down with pneumonia. One out of 1,000 will suffer an inflammation of the brain that can lead to convulsions and mental retardation, and one to two out of 1,000 will die. Similarly, chicken pox can lead to severe infections of the skin, swelling of the brain, and pneumonia.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=straight-talk-about-vaccination&page=2

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I have done research on vaccine safety, too. I am also an educated, empowered, discerning consumer of information, one with a research background who has taught experimental design, even.  I am not a sheeple who is just swallowing and repeating what her doctor told her.  We disagree on the quality of research on vaccine safety.  I understand that.  However, there is extensive high quality research on the subject, as well as on going safety monitoring of vaccines on the market.  I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "gold standard," but I assume you mean double blind placebo controlled study.  Insisting on such a study as the only acceptable form of scientific evidence is an oversimplification of research methods and the reality of how research is actually done.

You are entitled to your opinion. Please don't belittle mine.

No need to feel belittled...that was not my intent at all.

I still maintain that the available research is cherry picked, ethically conflicted and incomplete...but since this is apparently off topic, I'll take it elsewhere.

[Pookietooth]

Originally Posted by transformher 

Acually I do. I had Neisseria Meningitidis Serogroup C, intermediate penicillin sensitivity. I have all of the serotyping records from the hospital lab and the CDC. In addition serogroup C is one of the ones protected against in the vaccine. I have since been vaccinated and my titres have been drawn as they are after each series of vaccinations I have now since I travel quite a bit and need to make sure I have protective levels of antibodies. I have protective antibodies since being vaccinated. (No simply having the disease does not protect you. I had no antibodies to the serogroup I had when my immunologist drew a baseline 6 mos after i got sick)

How can a vaccine protect you if having the disease does not?

I actually came into this thread to share my own personal experience with a survivor of a VPD. My next door neighbor when I was growing up was exposed to German measles (rubella) in utero. He was severely disabled: he was severely intellectually disabled, had major hearing loss in both ears, had frequent seizures, and was generally quite emotionally volatile. His older siblings were not exposed as he was, and they were completely different, both were able to go to a regular school, went off to college, got married, etc. I am 46, and he was born in 1964, so 5 years before the vaccine was available. Interestingly enough, the vaccine itself can cause similar complications if given during pregnancy.

[Rrrrrachel]

I don't know the mechanics, but there are several diseases vaccination can protect you from that natural infection cannot. Tetanus comes to mind.

[transformher]

Surprisingly enough the meningococcal vaccine is conjugated with a tetanus toxoid. That is one of the ways it alerts your body that the antigen is foreign and stimulates the production of antibodies. When you have a natural infection the antigen (the actual bacteria Neisseria Meningitidis) is not conjugated to a tetanus toxoid and does not have a carrier protein (another way to stimulate antibody production) like the antigen in the vaccine. By the time my body recognized the actual bacteria as foreign it was too late. When I was admitted my WBC count was down to 1.9. Two days later, it was 78. Some bacteria are tricky and like to release toxins when they die (mine was endotoxin, things like strep have exotoxins). The toxins are what cause the worst of the problems like septic shock. Bacteria and basically most pathogens these days have evolved to where they have so many ways to avoid our bodies' ability to recognize them fast enough to kill them before we become ill. Even with the best and most prompt medical treatment, people die from VPD every day.