It's probably a really bad sign that even though I work full-time, I dread weekends with H, huh?

[Ellien C]

I have a full-time demanding job and 2 children. DH doesn't cheat, doesn't drink and doesn't spend money on toys. In fact he doesn't do much of anything. He is depressed angry and grumpy most of the time. Anything I ask of him is like giant favor. I don't want to do ANYTHING as a family because he is so horrible to be with. It's just awful. He has no tolerance for the kids, who are just kids. They interrupt, they ask questions, start singing songs, skibble along instead of walking. None of this can he tolerate. 

This all probably really bad right? We've been in counseling and it has helped some, but just not enough. There's never a good time to tell them to get out is there? Always a holiday or something coming up. Always some reason to put it off. 

[delightedbutterfly]

I'm sorry you are going through this and facing this choice. I'm sure the mamas on here will have some better help and experience, I'm bumping it up so hopefully you can get some answers to your question. Sending virtual hugs!

[Wilhemina]

To say that finally choosing to declare it over and leave was a hard decision is the understatement of my life.  If you are like me, you need lots of help to make the decision.  I have to recommend this book.  I'm not much of a self-help book reader.  I guess I've flipped through or read pieces of many, but this one I read cover to cover and made myself do all of the "exercises."  I still have the notebook, if you need the proof! ;)

It might help you.  I borrowed it from my library.  

Contemplating Divorce: A Step-by-Step Guide to Deciding Whether to Stay or Go [Paperback]

Susan Gadoua (Author)

And to answer your final question, no there is never a perfect time.  Yes, there is always a holiday or something approaching or ending, or...

[newmomlearning]

We live in another state from my ex-H.  He has been visiting us for a week & it has been far from a pleasure.

Your post reminds me of the fit of giggles I had on Saturday... when I realized that I was so happy we are already divorced, because it saves me the trouble of getting a divorce!!

Grumpy, irritable, short with the kids, every request you have of him is a monumental imposition???  What you describe is someone who isn't a good partner.  Take a look at the things you ask of him and the behavior you expect from him.  Is it reasonable to expect a husband and a father might do/be those things willingly?

Yes?

If he isn't a willing participant in the task of being a family, then your years of raising your children will be lived in the shadow of a grumpy old troll. 

Or not.

You could get a divorce.

Divorce is excruciatingly painful and hard.  You basically take every dream you had of love & happiness and throw it in a meat grinder.  You stumble forward with your kids and awkwardly construct an unseen future... while everyone around you is hitting the milestones you expected to reach with your Life partner.  The mind games you play with yourself regarding the damage divorce has done to your Life & children will nearly do you in.

You'll be inundated with societal "wisdom" that divorce is a bad thing and everyone hates you/thinks you're weird/makes fun of your clothes/because you are divorced.  You'll feel as a divorced person you've been branded bad goods, as in "doesn't get along well with others."

Then, one day, for some reason, you'll have a chance to spend an extended amount of time with your ex-husband. 

Later, in a moment alone, you'll laugh like you are 20-years old again...  because you'll finally know in your heart that you made the right decision to move toward the simple need to be happy.  And, you will be free. 

I had to fill-out a form recently.  It had a check-box for "divorce" in marital status.  I crossed out divorce, wrote "Free!" and added a smiley face.

If someone treats you badly & is rude to you, it is okay not to want to be with them.

[lilgreen]

Originally Posted by newmomlearning 

We live in another state from my ex-H.  He has been visiting us for a week & it has been far from a pleasure.

Your post reminds me of the fit of giggles I had on Saturday... when I realized that I was so happy we are already divorced, because it saves me the trouble of getting a divorce!!

Grumpy, irritable, short with the kids, every request you have of him is a monumental imposition???  What you describe is someone who isn't a good partner.  Take a look at the things you ask of him and the behavior you expect from him.  Is it reasonable to expect a husband and a father might do/be those things willingly?

Yes?

If he isn't a willing participant in the task of being a family, then your years of raising your children will be lived in the shadow of a grumpy old troll. 

Or not.

You could get a divorce.

Divorce is excruciatingly painful and hard.  You basically take every dream you had of love & happiness and throw it in a meat grinder.  You stumble forward with your kids and awkwardly construct an unseen future... while everyone around you is hitting the milestones you expected to reach with your Life partner.  The mind games you play with yourself regarding the damage divorce has done to your Life & children will nearly do you in.

You'll be inundated with societal "wisdom" that divorce is a bad thing and everyone hates you/thinks you're weird/makes fun of your clothes/because you are divorced.  You'll feel as a divorced person you've been branded bad goods, as in "doesn't get along well with others."

Then, one day, for some reason, you'll have a chance to spend an extended amount of time with your ex-husband. 

Later, in a moment alone, you'll laugh like you are 20-years old again...  because you'll finally know in your heart that you made the right decision to move toward the simple need to be happy.  And, you will be free. 

I had to fill-out a form recently.  It had a check-box for "divorce" in marital status.  I crossed out divorce, wrote "Free!" and added a smiley face.

If someone treats you badly & is rude to you, it is okay not to want to be with them.

So so so well put. Everything from pain to the 'wisdom' to the reminder and accompanying joy. 

[mags.bubble]

To the op- I could have written your post. Heck, over the years i would get sitters for the kids as to not imposition dh. My mom used to actually come to my house to watch them even when he was home. She is passed now (gosh I miss her). I wonder what she thought. Well, I am in a better place and we start counseling in a few days. Kids are in elementary school now. i know i could make it on my own if needed. Not sure where this will lead, but each day I am now following my heart and letting go of the outcome. What I do know, this needs to change or we won't make it. Just wanted to let you know you aren't alone.

Thanks for the encouraging words from the other responses. It is very empowering to read.

[Ellien C]

Thanks so much. It's really hard.

[Basylica]

I had same situation 5yrs ago. I'd pull over and want to cry a block away from my house because I SOOO didn't want to go home because of husband, but felt like terrible mom because I was avoiding my kids in the same boat.

Getting divorced was the best thing I ever did....which is sad to say. Divorce isn't easy and it stinks and there are some definate arguments for working things out.

It boiled down to Ex was grumpy and depressed, he showered once every 2 weeks, wasn't wearing deo because it "made him itchy" and his coworkers were leaving sticks of it on his desk, had gained over 100lbs (350ish), and was terse with the kids, and blamed EVERYONE but himself for his unhappiness.

It was my fault his dad was mad at him because I made more money. It was my fault he worked at a job he supposedly hated (yet he's now been there 10 years and has continued working there the last 5 years since we seperated) it was someone elses fault he couldn't be bothered to take out trash....etc.

I spent ALL my time taking care of HIM. picking up piles of his trash he'd leave everywhere, making drs appts and keeping his meds refilled because then he'd stop taking them and treat me like crap and say it was my fault he was grumpy because his meds ran out, filling up his car and doing mech work on it...etc. I realized I hated being at home, all my kids saw of me was rushing around to do laundry/dishes/whatever, and I was far from happy.

not to mention (altho due to the hygine and weigh issues, I really didn't want to) it's AMAZING I had two kids. he'd always interrupt me and say he was too tired/itchy/sleepy/whatever....

I got turned down every single night for a month or more before he'd relent and say "ok, but make it quick"....and when I stopped asking....he didn't think going 18m without was a big deal.

I went to therapist a few times and she had us bring up issues. I said the above. He said everything used to be fine and why couldn't doc just "give her drugs....she used to be happy. it must be post partum" (baby was a year old btw)

There was some major drama following seperation and divorce (taking off with kids, draining bank acct, dragging me back and forth to court...etc) and it ended up costing ME 30K, not to mention he had to have rung up a much larger legal bill dragging me back and forth to court.

Since that time i've more than doubled my salary, traveled all over, pay for the house (he couldn't afford it), bought 2 brand new cars now....2010 and traded in on 2012 (lower payments, same car...made sense!) have put away a TON of money into savings, investment, and 401k. I've improved things around the house for me and the kids dramatically as well. New appliances, furniture, etc.

Ex moved back in with his parents and (now) 28yr old sister who has never left home. Still works at same deadend job making 1/6th of what I do. Still driving his POS car that now looks like someone took a sander to it's so faded and is no longer green but green and grey. If we lived up north it would have giant rust holes in it by now for sure!

....and he STILL blames me. He tells the kids that i stole his house (he couldn't afford it! I don't want it!) and take all of his money and tells people that he can't move out of his parents house because of ME....and he can't quit his deadend job because of ME.....*eyeroll*

I guess I kinda hit rock bottom there, but i've NEVER been this happy nor financially stable in my entire life, incl my childhood.

I take care of errands, home improvement stuff, cleaning...whatever when kids are at my ex's.....and I love on them to pieces when I have them.

And I finally woke up and realized that not only am I a sexy beast (LOL) but I am very smart and hard working and I CERTAINLY don't have to put up with sloths like him!

I think thats the point you have to be at however, to make divorce worthwhile. it isn't easy on anyone....and its expensive, and I cried a lot of nights. I miss my kids terribly when they are gone, and resent and am suspect of my ex a lot....like when he suddenly after 3 years decides to attend parent teacher confs....or how the kids already have 5 tardies because of him....

Getting out of there was a bargin at any price tho, for sure. And I rather feel some sort of karmic pat on the back saying "damn....you have had a crap life and you finally made the right decision....GIFTS and WEALTH! rained upon you!!"

:D

[newmomlearning]

Yay, YOU!!

So nice to hear it worked out so well for you!  A light in the dark. 

Have been struggling for the three years since I left, but I've been working in the right direction.  Have my own house now, started my own business.  Hoping it will all begin to click soon.

Oh...really, we should write a book.  A book that tells the truth: "Run!: Hey Girl, You're actually Super-Capable!."

Or, "A Woman needs a Man like a Fish needs a Bicycle."

I never knew what Bono meant until I'd been married for 8 years.  Took me another three before it really sunk in & I left. 

It's like a big secret, how fast Women can run when no one is holding them back.  Certainly, the right guy can add a lot to a Woman's life.... but, the wrong guy can derail it.  Didn't really know that ...until I experienced it.
 

[newmomlearning]

Originally Posted by lilgreen 

So so so well put. Everything from pain to the 'wisdom' to the reminder and accompanying joy. 

Thanks!  Every bit is true. 
 

Divorce has felt, at times, like crawling across glass.  The whole desire to have a lasting, happy marriage is difficult to let go.  Add kids, soooo much more agony. 

That said, it is like being coal as it is forged into a diamond.  What I learned through difficult experience is really who I am now.  Painful knowledge of myself, but priceless.  I thought Divorce was for people who didn't take Marriage seriously, or who were awful to live with due to "unacceptable" behavior such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, etc.  I know now that you can be "married" and one of the partners can be there, but not engaged with the Life you are trying to build.  In fact they could be downright hostile to it.  Surprise!

Since most of my efforts were to better the lives of my children, I couldn't live with an active obstacle to their progress and happiness.  I couldn't live with someone who wasn't engaged in the same work, who wasn't happy about growing through that devotion.  I didn't want much, a home in a safe neighborhood, some financial security, kindness and cooperation, to work together toward our mutual goal of having a happy family life.  When everything was cast in a light of resentment... it took the joy out of what should be the happiest days of our lives. 

Since he wouldn't wake-up and Live the life he'd been blessed to have, I woke-up.  In waking-up, I decided it was just fine to choose Happiness over being with my Husband.  He wasn't much of a Husband, so I didn't feel really bad about that.  I didn't have a reason to stay.  He had basically told me through his actions that he didn't want what I wanted & he didn't care about the things I cared about...  He didn't want the Life I wanted to live. He didn't want me. He didn't leave... and, he didn't choose to Live.

Deal Breaker!!

So much better to be Free of that kind of nonsene... than be the Living Dead.

[Basylica]

Whats funny is I blame myself for everything....stuff I don't have any part in. Like how my sisters deal with stuff, etc.

I never *once* blamed myself for my marriage falling apart. Which is in stark contast to the fact I firmly believe it's NEVER any one person's fault.

Was I perfect? nope. Was I a ideal wife and mother, nope.

But the point of fact is that if my Ex had asked me to only wear purple...I would have atleast tried. We went to therapy and all he did was ask the therapist to put me on meds. Didn't even conceed the idea that if he was happy and I wasnt then he needed to make an effort to do things that would make me happy too. Compromise!

He didn't seem to think having sex once in 3 years was abnormal. He didn't think that it was unreasonable that I did cooking/cleaning/lawn/bills/etc all while working 80+ hour weeks and being breadwinner and he worked 40hrs on the nose and brought home barely min wage (he has college degree, I do not). That it was perfectly ok leaving piles of actual garbage laying all over the house, take over the king sized bed, and making me take care of *everything*

He thought it was my fault I was unhappy and I should be medicated and STFU.

Lights went on and I said, nope.....Because there was nothing I could say or do that would change the situation.

I think its further proof that I am doing 10x better now, and ex is 35 and living with his parents for the last 5 years. And hey, if thats what he wants from life then more power to him....but I'm going to make my own happiness!

But I can't even blame myself a little bit. I was willing to do whatever it took to take care of my family and make everyone happy. He was not even willing to admit I was unhappy. Case closed.

[Ellien C]

Thanks. H cooks dinner on the weekends. He is banging pots around the kitchen, incredibly angry. I should really get out tonight - somehow, somewhere. But I just can't figure out how to do that. All my friends are at a WAY cool Halloween party. I have no costume. Feel bad about leaving him with the kids. He'll just take it out on them. I literally cannot figure out how to get out of the house. 

[A&A]

Is there any place you and the kids could go?  

[fiona2359]

I have to agree w/ the very nicely written summation by newmommylearning. I never had a catalyst to get out - but it was sooooo miserable for so long. Exactly as you describe. Ex was the most negative unhelpful disintersted person. Every request for *anything* or even a neutral quesiton was met w/ defensiveness and passive-agressive behavior. Then he had an affair - and *catalyst* - finally got me moving. Divorce is just now final and it has taken 2 years. I went back to work after being home for 6 years w/ the kids. I feel so much better. Still sad about losing that dream of an ideal family or whatever, but not sad about losing a cruddy marriage. I wish I'd been able to do it sooner.

[Ellien C]

I'm posting here to remind myself that I really, really, really need to ask him to leave. I've asked God for help in finding a good time - getting both kids out so I can tell him. I don't deserve this and I don't want to live this way for the next 20 years. A family member paid for a really  nice vacation for everyone so we could all be together for Thanksgiving. He was SO horrible. Everything I did was wrong, where I sat, where we parked, how the children acted. This is not how I want to spend every vacation for the next 20 years. Everytime I looked at him he was shaking his head. When he wasn't screaming at us or himself. He started off complaining about the gift that the 3 days in the hotel, including meals and the 4 days in the theme parks was "less than ideal." "Who planned it that way?" I just looked at him and said "are you seriously complaining about this?" He said I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that is it "less than ideal." And that was the hight point. He was at least rational and not screaming at that point. It only got worse on the actual trip. I will NOT do this again. I will not live this way. We deserve better. 

I'm thankful for the reminder and the wakeup call. Going to try a new church for the first time in 2 years today. Will post more later. 

[Mom31]

It breaks my heart to hear of this.

I was there.

If you are going to leave start documenting before you do- his daily patterns and the things he does-

SAVE money in a secret account- you may need it for legal bills and protecting yourself and your children.

This will be less hopefully if you have correct documentation.

Get a very good reccomendation of a divorce and custody lawyer- that means- one that MANY people refer you to that USED THEM- NOT who your sister lives next door to- or your pastor at church heard was a decent Christian woman. 

Exhaust all other options honestly.  It haunts me thinking- if I just had tried harder- tho I had been trying- it really does haunt me that maybe I could have tried a little harder. 

I had no idea how hard divorce would be.  How this man who was awful to my kids now gets them for their birthdays and holidays and not because he wants them- but to spite and hurt me.  It s very hard.

Have a plan in place and then a back up plan.  My parents had said they would take us for awhile and once we got there they insisted we go stay at a women's shelter because they were empty nesters.  This landed us homeless for awhile and then in a transitional housing shelter.  Which was a very hard place to be when you already feel your life is in shambles so even if someone says you can stay with them- make sure you can- or have enough money to get your own place. OR BETTER YET- stay in your own home and make him leave- I think this is number one choice- stay put if you can.

[Ellien C]

I work full-time and I already pay the mortgage on this house and all the costs of day care and aftercare, my car payment plus insurance and retirement for DH. DH pays for all of the bills and the groceries. He actually makes considerably less than me. If we are careful, I can afford to take over the food and bills. I would reduce my retirement savings and stop contributing to his. That will help a little. 

the house is an absolute wreck right now. Totally unsaleable. DH and DD have some kind of hoarding disorder in addition to everything else. I find it hard to think when there is SO much stuff so I'm just not ABLE to organize it all. I would prefer to live in a condo. Although the yard is small, I'm just not into yard work or gardening. 

I think we can make it. I don't know if I want a divorce, but I KNOW I want him out of the house. I've done everything I can and I can't face another 20 years of this. I KNOW I deserve better. We cannot have a simple conversation about anything. All he wants to do is find fault with what I do and blame everyone else for his issues. No matter what happens, at least I won't be living with someone telling me I'm wrong all the time. 

[newmomlearning]

Ask him to leave.   Ask him for time for you both to reassess what each wants in Life/is this how you really want to LIVE?  Sounds like you need him out of your space so you can THINK and FEEL without his negative comments/energy.

Does he have a relative/friend nearby he can stay with?

In regard to clearing clutter in the house, I can relate.  My divorce left me with the task of sorting our 11-years of accumulated belongings (junk?).  I've been moving it from rental to rental for the past 3 years...  Not really living... always the task of sorting thru this baggage/stuff hanging over my head.

Finally moved to my own home & have been depressed about going through all this stuff and the memories they hold.  Started yesterday & was in a funk by last night.  Came across this quote this morning, "Maybe the Life you've always wanted to live is buried underneath everything you own."

For me, that is a liberating quote...  Printed it out, posted it in my work area and have been discarding & sorting things all day.  Read the quote periodically, when I get bogged down with nostalgia... like things from the kids babyhood when I was such a nice, hopeful wife & mom.

Sorry for the tangent..., but thought it might help.


 

[Megamum2008]

Wow can I ever relate to this thread. OP I was in your position exactly a year ago. And just one more argument sent me over the edge and I hit a realization that I just could not live that life anymore. It was unhealthy for me, for the children, for all of us. Always being blamed for not trying hard enough, not making him happy, not working to fix things, all the while him treating me like he despised me all the time. It was a toxic environment, and me and my kids deserved better. I made him leave. Told him end of November that I felt we had tried everything but living apart, and that was the only logical step in my mind, that with some space we could reassess where we were going. Took him a month to accept that and leave. I went and stayed with my folks for 2 weeks before Christmas, with all the kids, to give him time to clear out. But  he wouldn't accept it, wouldn't go. Jan 1st he left.

There was a week of relief and then the crazy hit. It was intense. He hated me, he loved me, he suddenly was interested in everything I was, he suddenly cared. And he was so unstable. It was scary. I knew, after that first week, that I had made the right decision (though I am still haunted by 'what ifs'... I am still mourning the loss of our family and hate how this affects the kids) and I knew I could never be with him again. It's been a roller coaster of a year. He's been emotionally unstable, so much so at first he couldn't handle seeing the kids. Oscillating between depression and anger. All the while trying to bully me and threaten me into taking him back. It's been hard. That first post newmomlearning wrote is so so spot on. I am finally doing things for myself, I get snippets of what life will be like when the dust has cleared, when I'm not being bombarded by hate texts everyday, when we have a set regular schedule for the kids. This is so for the better, but it definitely has been a lot harder than I could have imagined. It takes strength. But if you can remember that your children will always be better off with a happy mom, and there is nothing wrong with making decisions for your own good, you will get through it. And the guilt, that is the hardest part, not buying into the guilt. There is so much guilt associated with this, and it takes awhile to learn to let it go.

Good luck, sending you strength
 

[Mom31]

Originally Posted by Megamum2008 

Wow can I ever relate to this thread. OP I was in your position exactly a year ago. And just one more argument sent me over the edge and I hit a realization that I just could not live that life anymore. It was unhealthy for me, for the children, for all of us. Always being blamed for not trying hard enough, not making him happy, not working to fix things, all the while him treating me like he despised me all the time. It was a toxic environment, and me and my kids deserved better. I made him leave. Told him end of November that I felt we had tried everything but living apart, and that was the only logical step in my mind, that with some space we could reassess where we were going. Took him a month to accept that and leave. I went and stayed with my folks for 2 weeks before Christmas, with all the kids, to give him time to clear out. But  he wouldn't accept it, wouldn't go. Jan 1st he left.

There was a week of relief and then the crazy hit. It was intense. He hated me, he loved me, he suddenly was interested in everything I was, he suddenly cared. And he was so unstable. It was scary. I knew, after that first week, that I had made the right decision (though I am still haunted by 'what ifs'... I am still mourning the loss of our family and hate how this affects the kids) and I knew I could never be with him again. It's been a roller coaster of a year. He's been emotionally unstable, so much so at first he couldn't handle seeing the kids. Oscillating between depression and anger. All the while trying to bully me and threaten me into taking him back. It's been hard. That first post newmomlearning wrote is so so spot on. I am finally doing things for myself, I get snippets of what life will be like when the dust has cleared, when I'm not being bombarded by hate texts everyday, when we have a set regular schedule for the kids.

This is so for the better, but it definitely has been a lot harder than I could have imagined. It takes strength. But if you can remember that your children will always be better off with a happy mom, and there is nothing wrong with making decisions for your own good, you will get through it. And the guilt, that is the hardest part, not buying into the guilt. There is so much guilt associated with this, and it takes awhile to learn to let it go.

Good luck, sending you strength

Ok- I so don't know how to quote ....

But YES- to everything you said. and the paragraph that is not quoted- is what I was going to highlight.  The guilt is the hardest thing and it comes out of no where and everywhere and I have not dealt with it well.

Oh and about the hate texts if he is really texting you incessantly and it's pretty bad- what I did was went to the police station and showed them my phone and they called him and asked him to stop or that I was going to press charges.  It did not stop honestly but it would for the day.  I did it on two occasions.  I literally would get around 300 texts a day sometimes.  Now that he is married he leaves me alone for the most part.