Study: Not Enough Evidence That HPV Vaccine Is Safe and Effective - Page 8

[pers]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


I find it extremely disturbing that you state with much authority that "the rest are coincidental," when the fact is, you have no idea whether they are coincidental or not because they have not been followed up.
Some of those reports involved girls who either had syncope or seizures while driving , and died in the resultant car crash. The cause of death was listed as "car accident," which was clearly related to the HPV shot, but according to the parents of the girls, Merck refused to even look into it.
And you call it a coincidence, and insult anyone who points to a coverup.

These were vaers reports?  I was curious how common these were, so ran quick page searches for "car" and "vehicle" and "accident" on each of the thirteen pages of results for a vaers search on the HPV vaccines and death.  I may be missing something because I thought there was one car accident death, but can't find it now - the only results for "car" was one poor girl who drove to work, got out of her car, walked into work, and collapsed.  Vehicle returns nothing, and all accidents returned were unrelated to cars.  IIRC, there were a few deaths from seizures both soon after and long after gardasil, but I don't think any of them caused car accidents.  I found the poor girl whose vaers report says she fell down a well over a month after vaccination, but there was no mention of a possible seizure causing her to fall. 

Car accidents were the leading cause of death in the vaccine safety trials, but no more common in the Gardasil group than the placebo group.

I'm still curious as to how common this is.  Perhaps you could provide a little more detail to help locate the reports? 

[pek64]

Originally Posted by pers 

These were vaers reports?  I was curious how common these were, so ran quick page searches for "car" and "vehicle" and "accident" on each of the thirteen pages of results for a vaers search on the HPV vaccines and death.  I may be missing something because I thought there was one car accident death, but can't find it now - the only results for "car" was one poor girl who drove to work, got out of her car, walked into work, and collapsed.  Vehicle returns nothing, and all accidents returned were unrelated to cars.  IIRC, there were a few deaths from seizures both soon after and long after gardasil, but I don't think any of them caused car accidents.  I found the poor girl whose vaers report says she fell down a well over a month after vaccination, but there was no mention of a possible seizure causing her to fall. 

Car accidents were the leading cause of death in the vaccine safety trials, but no more common in the Gardasil group than the placebo group.

I'm still curious as to how common this is.  Perhaps you could provide a little more detail to help locate the reports? 

I found this using "gardasil death car".

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFAQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvaccineawakening.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F08%2Fgardasil-swine-flu-vaccines.html%3Fm%3D1&ei=leSZUJa1NozY8gSFjYCQBg&usg=AFQjCNFFZQeKOXiJCVde_uXidzbPzAI13g

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by pek64 


I found this using "gardasil death car".
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFAQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvaccineawakening.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F08%2Fgardasil-swine-flu-vaccines.html%3Fm%3D1&ei=leSZUJa1NozY8gSFjYCQBg&usg=AFQjCNFFZQeKOXiJCVde_uXidzbPzAI13g

That's an unreferenced blog post from the site "Vaccine Awakening" which has a tagline: 

Quote:

". . . If the State can tag, track down and force citizens against their will to be injected with biologicals of unknown toxicity today, there will be no limit on which individual freedoms the State can take away in the name of the greater good tomorrow."

Pretty clear their agenda. If that's the best Google hit I'm not much convinced this is more than an urban myth to be honest.....

[erigeron]

It mentions a JAMA article, though it isn't very specific about which article. Maybe we can track it down. 

[kathymuggle]

I don't think it matter if someone fell down a well or got in a car accident.  Obviously, it matter very much to their parents, but what we need to see is if people who have Gardasil shots are experiencing ill health, accidents or death more often than those who do not have Gardasil shots.  

I don't think that question has been answered definitively yet, so I absolutely think caution is indicated before embracing this vaccine.

Edited by kathymuggle - 11/7/12 at 1:18pm

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by pers 

 

Car accidents were the leading cause of death in the vaccine safety trials, but no more common in the Gardasil group than the placebo group.

Really? No kidding!

You mean, there were car accidents in both the group that got Gardasil and in the group that got the pretend placebo that contained all the same ingredients that might be causing fainting and seizures?

And they KNEW that some of these girls had either seizures or fainting spells while behind the wheel? And they just dismissed the results as being unrelated to the vaccine?

Aw, gee, you don't think there was ANY possibility Merck failed to report and/or act on adverse reactions, do you? I mean, have they EVER done so before?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

That's an unreferenced blog post from the site "Vaccine Awakening" which has a tagline: 




Pretty clear their agenda. If that's the best Google hit I'm not much convinced this is more than an urban myth to be honest.....

Equating the valid concern over forced vaccinations of biological material of unknown safety with an "agenda of urban myth" demonstrates a truly chilling agenda.

[chickabiddy]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

You mean, there were car accidents in both the group that got Gardasil and in the group that got the pretend placebo that contained all the same ingredients that might be causing fainting and seizures?

Car crashes are the leading cause of accidental death between ages 1 and 34.  I'm sad, but not at all surprised, that healthy teenage girls are dying in car crashes. 

[pers]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


Really? No kidding!
You mean, there were car accidents in both the group that got Gardasil and in the group that got the pretend placebo that contained all the same ingredients that might be causing fainting and seizures?
And they KNEW that some of these girls had either seizures or fainting spells while behind the wheel? And they just dismissed the results as being unrelated to the vaccine?
Aw, gee, you don't think there was ANY possibility Merck failed to report and/or act on adverse reactions, do you? I mean, have they EVER done so before?

Where does it say any of the girls had fainting or seizure episodes behind the wheel? 

It doesn't give any information about the car accident deaths other than that they happened and were not linked to Gardasil.  My assumption would be that if a girl driving herself home from getting the shot caused an accident that killed her, that would be worthy of mention and as a possible link to Gardasil.  Thus, since they are listed as not linked, (and the fact that with all the bad press Gardasil gets, I'm fairly sure that if there was a case of suspected fainting while driving soon after Gardasil we would be able to find a news story on the specific incidence, especially if it resulted in a death)  the accidents were almost certainly with someone else driving and/or occurred later in the observation period as opposed to day of injection or soon after . 

Of course, I can not say that with 100% certainty because I do not have the details of the accidents.  You don't have that information either and so can't even say that any of the girls were even the driver when the accident that killed them occurred.  Thus we still don't have any documented cases of a girl fainting or having a seizure while driving after Gardasil.  

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


Equating the valid concern over forced vaccinations of biological material of unknown safety with an "agenda of urban myth" demonstrates a truly chilling agenda.

Good thing that's not what she said.

[MamaMunchkin]

Originally Posted by pers 

Car accidents were the leading cause of death in the vaccine safety trials, but no more common in the Gardasil group than the placebo group.

How are these rates compared to that in the population with similar background - perhaps similar age etc? 

In other words - rates in vaxed vs placebo vs non-vaxed-non-placebo?

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by MamaMunchkin 


How are these rates compared to that in the population with similar background - perhaps similar age etc? 

In other words - rates in vaxed vs placebo vs non-vaxed-non-placebo?

Well this is the assessment the researcher will have made is deciding if the adverse rates were significant. Since they conclude they're not, I assume that means the rates are comparable.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Well this is the assessment the researcher will have made is deciding if the adverse rates were significant. Since they conclude they're not, I assume that means the rates are comparable.

Assuming again. It seems the pro-vax side does a lot of assuming and a lot of following the science leaders. Can you provide proof that supports the assumption?

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by pek64 

Assuming again. It seems the pro-vax side does a lot of assuming and a lot of following the science leaders. Can you provide proof that supports the assumption?

We should be debating the issue not what the "pro-van" side does all the time.

If you disagree with my assessment then prove me wrong.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

We should be debating the issue not what the "pro-van" side does all the time.
If you disagree with my assessment then prove me wrong.

You made the claim. Back it up with something more substantial than an assumption. Then we can discuss and debate vaccinations.

[HappyHappyMommy]

Hi All, Let's please keep it about the topic and not the person. All, please review your posts and, if you have made a personal comment, remove the personal comment and focus just on the topic. Thank you!
 

[MamaMunchkin]

nm

[MamaMunchkin]

What's the rates for vaxed and placebo groups again?  I skimmed the posts but haven't seen them ... it's waay past my bedtime ...

Anyway, here's some data for crash fatalities divided by gender and age group in the US.

From 1996-2006:

Comparison of Crash Fatalities by Sex and Age Group

www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810853.pdf

This one is even more detailed - not just fatalities, but also injuries:

National Motor Vehicle Crash Causation Survey: Report to Congress

www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811059.PDF

[Mirzam]

Gardasil and aluminum vaccine adjuvants: Researchers find neurological damage from aluminum adjuvants in two separate studies.

 

Here is a very well written blog article from Krisin Johns, who does not consider herself anti-vax, that discusses the studies conducted by Chris Shaw on aluminum. She states that she sent the studies to several of her scientist buddies for comments and dismemberment she waited months but got no replies. Nothing. So she went ahead and contacted Shaw herself. She goes into the "poison makes the dose" and the aluminum is harmless as we ingest it arguments.

(mods: Permission is freely given to accurately reproduce the first five paragraphs of this article, along with a link back to this site and the entirety of the article.)

Science is a laborious process; two steps forward and one step back. Quicksilver minds formulate a hypothesis and painstakingly set out to prove it, and then other researchers argue, test, counter, and prove or disprove the results. Science is only ever what we know so far.

So when I read a study showing that an aluminum adjuvant, used in various vaccines including Gardasil, DTaP, Tdap, hepatitis A and B, and anthrax, had caused serious neurological problems in lab mice, I relaxed. I confidently assumed that I’d find studies and comments utterly refuting the work. Probably the FDA or CDC would have something reassuring to say about it.

Nothing.

OK, then. I contacted one of the study’s authors, Dr Chris Shaw, a research scientist at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver. He and his colleagues had, after all, set out to look at Gulf War Syndrome and the more than doubled rate of ALS in serving military personnel, not debunk vaccines.

Had he disproved his own study? Not at all. In fact, a second study had confirmed the first.

[kathymuggle]

I thought this article was quite good. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/gardasil-hpv-vaccine-faces-safety-questions/story?id=8356717#.UKJVR46RB7E

Several doctors in the article were quoted as saying they were uncomfortable with the vax.

I thought this line was jaw dropping: 

"Although the number of serious adverse events is small and rare, they are real and cannot be overlooked or dismissed without disclosing the possibility to all other possible vaccine recipients," said Dr. Diane Harper, director of the Gynecologic Cancer Prevention Research Group at University of Missouri. "The rate of serious adverse events is greater than the incidence rate of cervical cancer."

This line was also interesting and backs up what I was trying to say earlier in this thread (or in one similar to it).

"Perhaps the most important, currently missing 'warning' is that the vaccine may not be forever," Zanga said. "We know that it protects for 5-7 years so that a girl getting the series at [age] 11-12 will enter the time of her most likely sexual debut unprotected but believing herself to be."

 

Edited by kathymuggle - 11/13/12 at 6:45am