Perhaps an example can show the error.
Parenting supplies mentioned in this thread:
- productDon't Vaccinate! Before You Educatetagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productHPV and Cervical Dysplasia: A Naturopathic Approach (Woodland Health Series)tagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe Cutter Incident: How America's First Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisistagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe HPV Vaccine Controversy: Sex, Cancer, God, and Politics: A Guide for Parents, Women, Men, and Teenagerstagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe Vaccine Book: Making the Right Decision for Your Child (Sears Parenting Library)tagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe Virus and the Vaccine: Contaminated Vaccine, Deadly Cancers, and Government Neglecttagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
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Studies demonstrating HPV vaccine is both safe and effective - Page 7
There's plenty of data on this thread. It just has to be read and understood.
Here's a primer regarding statistical power. You know, they don't just pull these sample sizes out their asses.
And the point is not to make all groups the same size. That means nothing.
If we are looking at the link you cited (which yes, I read) in some areas reactions are broken out separately, and in some areas they stick the rates for AAHS and saline together. They seem to separate out the milder reactions, but some of the more severe reactions they lump together. I get one of the reasons they may do this (the saline group is pretty small - and actually getting data out of that small group on severe reactions might be hard as severe reactions are rarer) - but it still does not give us much information on reaction rate in HPV vaxxed versus unvaxxed.
Some made up numbers to illustrate the point.
Incidence of fever in 10 day period following injection:
saline - 10%
AAHS - 45%
Gardasil - 60%
In the study in question, those in the saline group only made up about 10% of the AAHS/saline contingent.
The math on the combined AAHS/Saline group is 41.5 %. (10% of 10%, plus 90% of 45%).
Gardasil still has a 60% fever rate, but it looks safer when you compare it to a AAHS/Saline control than when you compare it to Saline alone.
Yes - but I think we have also established that some of us are interested in numbers in a saline control group (not a AAHS/saline control group)
I think that has been the bone of contention over the last page.
I read the link you posted, and my critique was of it:
Not parsing out the saline/AAHS does not give me the info I want.
As per the bolded, I did not say they intentionally mislead or stacked the deck. I suspect they put the saline and AAHS together as the saline sample size was small. None the less - putting AAHS and Saline together does affect the numbers, and it makes it difficult for me to say there was a "saline trial."
It is possible the full study completely parses out AAHS and Saline (although I suspect it is doubtful as the saline sample size was small) but I will eat my words with a fork and knife if I am wrong
Have you read the full clinical trials study and do you have a link?
Edited by kathymuggle - 11/18/12 at 6:39pm
Oh, for heaven's sake.
It was NOT tested against a true saline placebo.
It was tested against a combination of mostly AAHS "placebo" vaccines, with a very small number of true saline placebos thrown into the mix.
It was never tested against ONLY a true placebo. Neither was the AAHS "placebo."
And you now as well as I do that Merck would never allow the results for both placebos to be released individually., because the results would too obviously point to harmful effects from both Garasil and from e AAHS "placebo."
Funny, they don't supply a breakdown for the severe side effect that is most likely caused by aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines, and NOT caused by saline.
Oh, wait, that's right, it's not funny at all, because they did it this way on purpose.
No. Have you?
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Merck has not publicized data specifically comparing ALL serious reactions to Gardasil vs AAHS vs true saline placebo/control.
Given their track record of hiding data that shows lower efficacy and/or higher rates of serious adverse reactions, it's probable that they've tested these things years ago and decided to hide all unacceptable results from any tests that they've conducted on Gardasil.
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