The point is, the assumption that HPV is both safe and effective is jumping to conclusions, and ignores the most recent research indicating that aluminum adjuvanted vaccines are causing autoimmune disorders.
Parenting supplies mentioned in this thread:
- productDon't Vaccinate! Before You Educatetagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productHPV and Cervical Dysplasia: A Naturopathic Approach (Woodland Health Series)tagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe Cutter Incident: How America's First Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisistagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe HPV Vaccine Controversy: Sex, Cancer, God, and Politics: A Guide for Parents, Women, Men, and Teenagerstagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe Vaccine Book: Making the Right Decision for Your Child (Sears Parenting Library)tagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
- productThe Virus and the Vaccine: Contaminated Vaccine, Deadly Cancers, and Government Neglecttagged by Cynthia Mosher, 10/25/13
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Studies demonstrating HPV vaccine is both safe and effective - Page 8
I "jump" to these kinds of conclusions because they do lovely things like test the HPV and other vaccines on unwitting subjects in the third world without informed consent.
I wouldn't be surprised if they've hidden data, or done whatever they can to make their product look good.
What idea? That some people " trust vaccine manufacturers because they want to help the world"?
Actually, I bet a lot of the unaware masses who tend to not research this subject like we do very much agree with that statement.
But because of its unethical track record (which most of the unknowledgeable public doesn't know about or else they would lose that trust), I will continue to be skeptical about this industry.
Edited by Chicharronita - 11/20/12 at 8:56am
Well, then what we are we left with? Dismissing the clinical trials as discussed in the link because we do not have the full study? Okay by me. It hardly changes the real issues that exist with HPV.
Uh, no, why would you dismiss the whole study? Personally I take the information I have for what it's worth an acknowledge there's information I don't have. One thing I know for sure, the constant insistence that hpv wasn't tested against a placebo is incorrect if not a lie.
It goes both ways…we either have enough information to draw some conclusions or we don't. It isn't: "I can draw conclusions that support my hypothesis - but you can't."
Oh, it is clear it was tested against saline in one of the 7 studies - but the overall saline portion is small, and the results were mixed in with AAHS for numerous vaccine reactions as opposed to separated out. It does not give us much information. None of us have the full study. The lack of information we have is what is important here.
I am out where this study is concerned. No one has the study and we are bickering for bickering's sake, as far as I can tell.
Edited by kathymuggle - 11/19/12 at 3:19pm
Yes, Rachel gets it!
Jumping to conclusions is either legitimate and fair and a sound debate strategy, or it isn't.
Gets what? That some unknowing people out there completely trust Big Pharma? BTW that's not hyperbole but fact. It's kind of funny that she used an example that is NOT an exaggeration of some people's attitude.
I stick by my conclusion-jumping until I see there's a reason not to.
You're right. I wonder if it will be possible to see all the data?
Edited by Chicharronita - 11/20/12 at 8:57am
All members: you have done a great job of digging into the study, examining different facts, schooling me on statistics, etc.
However, when you cross into judging how others are interpreting these data, you're crossing into UAV territory. People can look at the same data and come to different conclusions. Some members may find issues with and disregard a study or aspect of the data you feel is very important; you can point to information you feel may be overlooked but not judge or criticise them for their decision. Does that make sense?
All the data on deaths does seem to be on the insert - you just have to read it. Even for deaths. They list (pg 8 of this http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM111263.pdf) all the different causes of death. I put it in the below table to make it easy for you. Turns out there was 1 death in the saline group, 18 in the AAHS and 21 in Gardasil. All have the same rate of around 0.15% deaths, and all causes of death were considered found at normal rates for the sample population and unrelated to the injection.
Broken down here. I put the statistical error on some of the numbers (including the "rule of 3" errors for zero incidence rate in a sample).
Gardasil AAHS control Saline placebo
Cohort size 15706 13023 594
Total deaths 21 (0.13+/-0.03%) 18 (0.14+/-0.03%) 1 (0.16+/-0.16%)
Motor vehicle accident 5 (0.03+/-0.01%) 4 (0.03+/-0.02%) 0 (0.0+/-0.5%)
Drug overdose/suicide 2 (0.01+/-0.01%) 6 (0.05+/-0.02%) 0 (0.0+/-0.5%)
Gun shot wound 1 (0.006+/-0.006%) 3 (0.02+/-0.01%) 0 (0.0+/-0.5%)
Pulmonary embolus/deep 1 (0.006+/-0.006%) 1 (0.007+/-0.007%) 0 (0.0+/-0.5%)
Sepsis 2 0 (0.0+/-0.02%) 0
Pancreatic cancer 1 0 0
Arrythmia 1 0 0
Pulmonary tuberculosis 1 0 0
hyperthyroidism 1 0 0
post-operative pulmonary 1 0 0
embolism and acute renal
traumatic brain injury/cardiac 1 0 0
systemic lupus erthematosus 1 0 0
cerebrovascular accident 1 0 0
breast cancer 1 0 0
nasopharynegeal cancer 1 0 0
asphyxia 0 1 0
acute lymphocytic leukemia 0 1 0
chemical poisoning 0 1 0
myocaridal ischemia 0 1 0
medulloblastoma 0 0 1
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