Studies demonstrating HPV vaccine is both safe and effective - Page 10

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

The internet is very good at connecting what feel like large groups, but in reality are very rare. 

Something so "rare" sure has spurred the creation of numerous online groups and forums interested in talking about it.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

I don't know anyone personally who has had a vaccine reaction, except soreness at the vaccine site and mild fever following the injection (which demonstrates that the immune system is working as intended in response to the vaccine). 

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Obviously, if someone chooses not to look, they won't see.

[Taximom5]

Wow, Chicha, that FB page is chilling.

16-year-old Amber, given Gardasil while sick--and then being give antibiotics at the same time?  And--like so many other reports of Gardasil injuries--collapsing and dying within days of the shot?  And Merck and its supporters still insisting that there are no deaths associated with Gardasil?

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 
I don't know anyone personally who has had a vaccine reaction, except soreness at the vaccine site and mild fever following the injection (which demonstrates that the immune system is working as intended in response to the vaccine). 

Comments like this remind me of the conversation I had w/ a friend & her husband, who works for a big pharma co, about vaccines & what my friend told me after the conversation.  She said that her dh is very frustrated by people who do not vax & has never had a conversation w/ someone who does not vaccinate previous to our conversation.  Now, this couple knows at least two families  who do not vax.  If he wants to get more information from people who choose not to, it wouldn't take long to find someone to talk to.  I get the sense that he's not really interested in hearing *why* someone would choose not to vax but he's fine to be frustrated w/ them.  

I did post more about this conversation in a thread a while back.  The convo was in May, I believe.  Don't have the time to look for a link.

Sus

[Chicharronita]

That reminds me of the Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

[Mirzam]

HPV Vaccines: Science versus Reality by Dr Lucija Tomljenovic

My greatest concern is over the fact that parents and children are not being told the truth about the real benefits and legitimate risks on HPV vaccines and that the medical authorities and regulators rely exclusively on information provided by the vaccine manufacturers as a base for making vaccine policies and recommendations.

Edited by Mirzam - 11/26/12 at 6:03am

[Rrrrrachel]

One mans opinion, Mirzam. That's all that is.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

One mans opinion, Mirzam. That's all that is.

Lucjia Tomljenovic

The comment above is a classic example of why these threads become unbearable to read.

[Rrrrrachel]

Whatever, one woman's opinion, same deal. I'm sorry that a simple mistake in gender pronouns makes things unbearable to read for you.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Whatever, one woman's opinion, same deal. I'm sorry that a simple mistake in gender pronouns makes things unbearable to read for you.

Well, this woman's educated opinion is based on having conducted several research papers on vaccine safety. It's not like she is some random person, putting her 2 cents in.

Oh, your comments don't have any effect on me whatsoever, I was taking into account what others have said about debate threads being unhelpful. 

#WaterOffADucksBack

[prosciencemum]

I thought it might be interesting to draw parallels between this thread and the one

on why people follow Medical Authorites: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1368637/why-do-people-follow-medical-authorities

Trying to be moderate I think I would suggest these two threads show that we should respect the advice/opinions of people who have more expertise in an area than ourselves, without having to agree with every assessment they make. 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

I thought it might be interesting to draw parallels between this thread and the one

on why people follow Medical Authorites: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1368637/why-do-people-follow-medical-authorities

Trying to be moderate I think I would suggest these two threads show that we should respect the advice/opinions of people who have more expertise in an area than ourselves, without having to agree with every assessment they make. 

Respect the opinions of?  What does that really mean? 

I firmly believe in informed choice - which is quite different from "trust your doctor and do what what he or she says"

Informed choice means get as much legitimate information as you can (a hcp may be one source of info) and make your choice...as you will undoubtably be the one to live with any consequences. 

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Well, this woman's educated opinion is based on having conducted several research papers on vaccine safety. It's not like she is some random person, putting her 2 cents in.

Oh, your comments don't have any effect on me whatsoever, I was taking into account what others have said about debate threads being unhelpful. 

#WaterOffADucksBack

Except she is essentially just a random person off the street, since she has no particular expertise in immunology or vaccines and her studies were of questionable quality and mostly involved running statistical tests on a computer.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


Except she is essentially just a random person off the street, since she has no particular expertise in immunology or vaccines and her studies were of questionable quality and mostly involved running statistical tests on a computer.

Right.  You hate each others studies.  I am shocked and surprised.

I guess it boils down to what philosophy you start with - I think it is best to avoid pharmaceuticals unless you truly need them.  I think that has the best chance of conferring health.  To each their own.   

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm guessing most people on a site like mothering agree its best to avoid pharmaceuticals you don't need. Heck, I'm guessing most people in general agree with that.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I'm guessing most people on a site like mothering agree its best to avoid pharmaceuticals you don't need. Heck, I'm guessing most people in general agree with that.

Then it comes down to the word "need".

In a literal sense - no one needs a vaccine.  A vaccine is given to a healthy person.

I don't think my kids need the majority of vaccines that are availible, even assuming no one vaxxed, and even assuming the only risks to vaccines were those agreed upon and accepted by pro-vaxxers. 

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


Except she is essentially just a random person off the street, since she has no particular expertise in immunology or vaccines and her studies were of questionable quality and mostly involved running statistical tests on a computer.

Most pediatricians have no particular expertise in immunology or vaccines - does that mean their opinions and observations are irrelevant?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Most pediatricians have no particular expertise in immunology or vaccines - does that mean their opinions and observations are irrelevant?

Paul Offit has no expertise whatsoever in autism, seizure disorders, asthma, autoimmune disorders, rheumatoid arthritis, bowel disorders, etc--yet he insists vaccines are safe.

Meanwhile, experts in those disorders acknowledge that at least for a subset, vaccines are the trigger or even the direct cause.

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm not sure that's actually the case, bokonon. I take my advice about things like vaccination more from organizations like acip, aap, or iom that have used experts an studies the matter extensively, though. Then discuss that with y doctor who is an expert on medicine and knows the particulars of my child, though. Not so much computer scientists and inorganic chemists.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Then it comes down to the word "need".

In a literal sense - no one needs a vaccine.  A vaccine is given to a healthy person.

I don't think my kids need the majority of vaccines that are availible, even assuming no one vaxxed, and even assuming the only risks to vaccines were those agreed upon and accepted by pro-vaxxers. 

I disagree. Without vaccines these various diseases return and my child is at risk.