Studies demonstrating HPV vaccine is both safe and effective - Page 11

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


I disagree. Without vaccines these various diseases return and my child is at risk.

 

We were discussing need.  You may have noticed I said "even if no one vaxxed" - meaning even if rubella (for example) returned in full force, I do not see the need to vaccinate a healthy toddler for it.  It does not matter who shoots holes in who's study…..if there is no need for a vaccine, there is no need for a vaccine.  

[pek64]

The diseases haven't been eliminated, because they mutate, so children are at risk now, with vaccinations.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

We were discussing need.  You may have noticed I said "even if no one vaxxed" - meaning even if rubella (for example) returned in full force, I do not see the need to vaccinate a healthy toddler for it.  It does not matter who shoots holes in who's study…..if there is no need for a vaccine, there is no need for a vaccine.  

That's a matter of opinion, I guess.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by pek64 

The diseases haven't been eliminated, because they mutate, so children are at risk now, with vaccinations.

There is SOME preliminary research that implies that MAY be the case for ONE disease.

[AmandaT]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


I disagree. Without vaccines these various diseases return and my child is at risk.

Maybe. 

The diseases will return, but it is likely they will not be as prevalent because of improved sanitation. Then your child would have to actually contract the disease. Then your child would have to have complications from what are (mostly) benign childhood diseases. 

Polio 95% of all cases are asymptomatic

Chickenpox while uncomfortable, very rarely an actual health risk

"Rubella infection of children and adults is usually mild, self-limiting and often asymptomatic" as per Wikipedia

... you get my point, fussy baby is calling me 

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm not sure how improved sanitation would help with an air born disease, although certainly it would help with the few diseases that are spread through contact with feces.

[pek64]

If the viruses are not mutating, then why haven't the vpds been eliminated?

[Rrrrrachel]

Well, most of the, all but have been in the United States. Not all countries have vaccination programs, though, so that allows them to persist. Pockets where the vaccination rate is low in the us do, as well.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Well, most of the, all but have been in the United States. Not all countries have vaccination programs, though, so that allows them to persist. Pockets where the vaccination rate is low in the us do, as well.

Which ones might they be? I have been through the WHO national vaccine schedule and didn't find a country without a program. Afghanistan, Angola, Malawi, Maldives, Republic of Korea, all have programs, I could go on, but I will give you the link, it is interesting reading.

http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/scheduleselect.cfm

[Rrrrrachel]

Maybe I should've said they don't all have programs as successful as ours. Point is, there are still plenty of places in the world vpds persist due to lack of vaccination, even if they do have a "program."

[Taximom5]

How odd, then, that the persistence of polio in third-world countries is due to the vaccine: http://www.dailypaul.com/259831/vaccine-induced-strain-of-polio-sweeping-india

[prosciencemum]

Is just not true. Vaccine induced cases of polio are very rare and not a significant fraction of cases even in the third world.

India announced it has been polio free for a year recently. Let's hope that a final push in the final few countries with any significant numbers of cases (Afghanistan, Pakistan and Niger? I think) erradicates it completely soon

[erigeron]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I'm guessing most people on a site like mothering agree its best to avoid pharmaceuticals you don't need. Heck, I'm guessing most people in general agree with that.

To be entirely fair, in my offline life as a pharmacist I do encounter a decent amount of people taking stuff they don't actually need on the grounds that it probably won't hurt even if it doesn't help. (Mostly with OTC stuff.) I think it often comes down to ignorance, either inadvertent or willful. They don't know what would be the best treatment, so they just pick something that seems vaguely likely, OR they know that X probably isn't the thing to treat Y but they took it before (when they had something different) and it worked so they're going to take it anyway. 

/offtopic

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Is just not true. Vaccine induced cases of polio are very rare and not a significant fraction of cases even in the third world.

India announced it has been polio free for a year recently. Let's hope that a final push in the final few countries with any significant numbers of cases (Afghanistan, Pakistan and Niger? I think) erradicates it completely soon

No, vaccine induced polio is not rare, but they make it look that way because it has been renamed, accute flacid paralysis.

From: CDC and Friends Sprinting Towards the Polio "Finish Line"

[BeckyBird]

As India declares itself "polio-free", what about this:

“There were 47,500 cases of non-polio paralysis reported in 2011, the same year India was declared ‘polio-free,’ according to Dr. Vashisht and Dr. Puliyel.” Further, “the available data shows that the incidents tracked back to areas were doses of the polio vaccine were frequently administered. The national rate of NPAFP in India is 25-35 times the international average.”

[Rrrrrachel]

As I recall there was a reaaalllyyyy long thread about this awhile ago.

[Rrrrrachel]

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1350135/paralysis-cases-continue-to-rise-experts-speak-out-against-who-and-gates

[prosciencemum]

Thanks for the link Rrrrrachel - that was a really interesting discussion about something I'd not heard about before actually.

It'll be interesting to see when India decides it should switch to te safer, but less effective and more expensive version of the vaccine which does not carry a risk of vaccine induced polio. I wouldnt be surprised is wealthy Indians aren't already choosing that for their families.