Studies demonstrating HPV vaccine is both safe and effective - Page 5

[Rrrrrachel]

The thing about gardasil not being tested with a true placebo didn't sit right with me.  I think having everything but the pathogen as a placebo is legit, but at some point it was surely tested against saline.  Turns out, it was.

From the gardasil insert:

Quote:

 

In 7 clinical trials (5 Amorphous Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate [AAHS]-controlled, 1 saline 

placebo-controlled, and 1 uncontrolled), 18,083 individuals were administered GARDASIL or AAHS 

control or saline placebo on the day of enrollment, and approximately 2 and 6 months thereafter, and 

safety was evaluated using vaccination report cards (VRC)-aided surveillance for 14 days after each 

injection of GARDASIL or AAHS control or saline placebo in these individuals. 

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM111263.pdf

[Rrrrrachel]

I also thought this was interesting, the list of studies merck was required to do  in order to get their initial licensure for gardasil.  Yes, these studies were funded by merck.  Who should bear the brunt of funding them other than merck?  I think knowing where funding came from is an important consideration, but doesn't not automatically ruin a study.  Depending on how things were set up it's very possible for research to be independent, even if it's industry funded.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm111283.htm

I was going to quote, but the list is far too long for copy right requirements.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Depending on how things were set up it's very possible for research to be independent, even if it's industry funded.

Possibly, but seeing how unethical and money-hungry this industry is it would take a lot for me to trust it.

[Rrrrrachel]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

[pek64]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

And yet you replied that you're not sure if you would vaccinate your mythical daughter. Do you trust the vaccination industry, or not?

[Taximom5]

[Rrrrrachel]

Lets not make this about me, please.

[Mosaic]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Lets not make this about me, please.

Agreed. This thread is not about Rrrrachel's personal decision regarding her mythical teenage daughter. Topical, not personal, everybody. Do I need to add that to my sig??

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by pek64 


 Do you trust the vaccination industry, or not?

Not Rachel, but this is a very interesting question!

I think most people fall on a spectrum. One end - complete distrust for the vaccine industry.  Other end - complete acceptance of the vaccine industry.  I don't think either extreme is necessarily balanced (for lack of a better word) as it clouds objectivity, logic and ability to keep an open mind.

I actually like it when someone who identifies as pro-vax or non-vax concedes that they are not 100% devoted to either extreme - it shows an open-mindedness that leads to better discussion.

Edited by kathymuggle - 11/16/12 at 7:43am

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I also thought this was interesting, the list of studies merck was required to do  in order to get their initial licensure for gardasil.  Yes, these studies were funded by merck.  Who should bear the brunt of funding them other than merck?  

The government, for one.

If the government is involved in either paying for or mandating the vaccine, I think it has a responsibility to ensure safety through independent study.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I also thought this was interesting, the list of studies merck was required to do  in order to get their initial licensure for gardasil.  Yes, these studies were funded by merck.  Who should bear the brunt of funding them other than merck?  

The government, for one.

If the government is involved in either paying for or mandating the vaccine, I think it has a responsibility to ensure safety through independent study.

The problem with government funding is the pharmaceutical companies bankroll most of the FDA. Or at least a good portion of their funding comes from big pharma.

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm talking about licensing, which happens well before a vaccine is added to the schedule. Why Gould the government pay so that Merck can make money?

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm interested in learning more about that. Are they giving money to the FDA out of the goodness of their hearts or is it in the form of fees and penalties?

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

The problem with government funding is the pharmaceutical companies bankroll most of the FDA. Or at least a good portion of their funding comes from big pharma.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

The problem with government funding is the pharmaceutical companies bankroll most of the FDA. Or at least a good portion of their funding comes from big pharma.

I assume most government funding in Canada comes from taxes, but it sounds like the USA might have more funding coming from private sources. 

Governments are also not without bias.

In an ideal world funding would come from unbiased sources with no conflicts of interest  - sadly this is not Utopia.

I think the best real world scenario would be funding coming from multiple types of sources.  

I don't think it would resolve the trust issue, but it might help, at least where studies are concerned.  It is certainly better than almost all studies being funded by Big Pharm.

[Rrrrrachel]

Good news!  that's pretty much the system we have!

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I'm talking about licensing, which happens well before a vaccine is added to the schedule. Why Gould the government pay so that Merck can make money?

What is the goal?

Is the goal to convince non-vaxxers to vaccinate?  If that is the goal, something other than Big Pharm needs to be involved in studies.  Conflict of interest wrt studies is way up there in reasons not to vacinate.  

Personally, I am not sure trying to convincing 1% of the population to vaccinate is worth the money - but governments better not make vaccines mandatory or have strict exemptions when they refuse to run independent studies!  

If your goal is simply to increase the vaccination rate - then I suggest programs to help those who want to vax or are meh about it.  Free vaccines, convenient locations, etc.  

[Mirzam]

I believe around 60% of funding to the FDA comes from the pharmaceutical industry.

http://www.fda.gov/ForIndustry/UserFees/PrescriptionDrugUserFee/default.htm

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Good news!  that's pretty much the system we have!

Really?  What percentage of vaccine studies are funded by Big Pharm?

This is in general (if anyone finds anything better, I am all ears) but it says industry funds about 70% of scientific research

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_of_science

[Rrrrrachel]

Again, independent studies can still be industry funded.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's an opinion that I've shaped from years of reading about government and corporate corruption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Good news!  that's pretty much the system we have!

Yes, which is why it's important for people who are critical of it to keep pushing, pushing, pushing information to the masses, so they can wake up and make more informed decisions.

I hope soon that less and less parents will say "I wish I had never vaccinated because of what it did to my kids, but I didn't know any better." 

On a related note, it's pretty hard for me to trust a government that feels it's okay to secretly experiment on its citizens:

Unethical human experimentation in the United States

Quote:

From the 1950s to 1972, mentally disabled children at the Willowbrook State School in Staten Island, New York were intentionally infected with viral hepatitis, in research whose purpose was to help discover a vaccine.^[39] From 1963 to 1966, Saul Krugman of New York University promised the parents of mentally disabled children that their children would be enrolled into Willowbrook in exchange for signing a consent form for procedures that he claimed were "vaccinations." In reality, the procedures involved deliberately infecting children with viral hepatitis by feeding them an extract made from the feces of patients infected with the disease.^[40][41]

^{I was amazed to find this in Wikipedia.}