grade skip

[beru]

My son is in third grade and took the Cogat twice. Last year, he got only 2 answers wrong on the entire test. Obviously that's 99% in each section. He was tested both by the school and an educational psychologist. The outside assessment was because the school didn't have any gifted services before third grade. They were doing very little for him and he was not challenged. The psychologist suggested that he would benefit from skipping a grade in a year or two. Skipping from 2nd to 4th was not recommended and I agreed because of his maturity, etc. I feel like this year he has matured a lot and is starting to finally improve in his executive functioning.

(I had posted before worrying about his poor executing fucntioning issues. But we are working on it. I think we, as parents, aren't very structured and organized ourselves and that was holding him back a bit. Now that we have put some effort into teaching him these skills, we see that although they do not come naturally to him as they do with his sister, he is still quite capable of overcoming his weaknesses. Consequently, I am not worried about him having an undiagnosed deficit of some sort. That is a relief.)

I am pleased that my school system has a good system for assessing whole grade acceleration. They use the Iowa Assessments, reports from teachers and parents and test scores. I feel that if he goes through that process, I would trust the results. Maybe this year he would be ready for a big step ahead.

If one of the teachers doesn't instigate an acceleration assessment then the parent needs to instigate it. So my question is, do I instigate it? I honestly am a bit clueless about what is best for my son and how I should be advocating for him. So far I have been lucky that he has had classroom teachers I mostly trust. I do have nagging doubts that he is not challenged enough. He excels in every aspect of his current school studies. He is so used to success that he finds it hard to cope with even tiny bits of failure. On the other hand, he is still engaged with school and enjoys it. I am worried he will end up like me. I graduated high school with zero study skills. I did very minimal work. Consequently, I flunked out of college! I have since learned so much about my own study skills and I have a graduate degree. I look back and I realize that if I had just 50% of the study skills I had by the time I was successful in college, I would have qualified for a full scholarship to Northeastern ( I had just missed the cut-off).

Should I wait to push him to develop his study skills? Should I just be laid back and let him enjoy school and his childhood? Or should I worry about challenging him more now at 8 years old?

[Geofizz]

Do you have achievement testing? IAS requires achievement data as well as IQ. I'm not sure if it is meant to be used with the cogat. The IAS helps make an objective decision from a bunch of subjective issues (we actually had a 5 minute discussion in our meeting with the school whether or not DS was old for grade or not), so it's good your school uses it. You need data first.

[beru]

Originally Posted by Geofizz 

Do you have achievement testing? IAS requires achievement data as well as IQ. I'm not sure if it is meant to be used with the cogat. The IAS helps make an objective decision from a bunch of subjective issues (we actually had a 5 minute discussion in our meeting with the school whether or not DS was old for grade or not), so it's good your school uses it. You need data first.

He just took the regular 3rd grade achievement test 2 weeks ago. It will be a couple of months to get the results. I do know he is the only child in his grade (70 kids) in the gifted program. I suppose I am being premature and I need to wait for those scores. My question remains. Should I have them do the IAS? Maybe the test scores will give me a definite yes or no? Or perhaps they will choose to instigate it themselves if he scores at the 99%ile. 

[spedteacher30]

99th percentile on the COGAT doesn't really mean anything in terms of a grade skip. And, knowing everything on the current grade test doesn't mean a skip is warranted. It means a skip should be investigated, but skipping is really more appropriate when the child also knows everything for the grade above current placement too.

My kid was just skipped this year, and he scored 99th percentile for end of first grade and in many areas end of second grade as a kindergartener at the end of last year.

In order to make your case for a skip, you need to have comparisons of his achievement for kids in the grades above his current placement.

[Geofizz]

IAS requires IQ and achievement data. It's step 1. So if you get those data, then you can figure out if it's worth opening the discussion with the school. Or, yu can petition for the skip and see if they'll test him for you.

You need achievement data like from the Woodcock Johnson or similar that have out-of-level content. State standardized tests don't do that, so they aren't relevant.

[beru]

Originally Posted by beru 

Should I have them do the IAS? Maybe the test scores will give me a definite yes or no? Or perhaps they will choose to instigate it themselves if he scores at the 99%ile. 

I am sorry I am quoting myself but I felt I needed to clarify. When I wrote "Maybe the test scores will give me a definite yes or no?" I meant it will help me to decide if my son should do the IAS and any additional testing that may be needed, not a definite "yes or no" on grade skipping.

If I just let things proceed as they are going now, he will have the opportunity to participate in a talent search next fall probably. And the talent search includes an above level test and is run by the people who wrote the IAS so I think that testing would be sufficient (and it doesn't really matter in the context of this thread because that is not really what I am questioning at the moment, I can find out about that later).  But if he really does need to skip a grade to accomodate him properly then that won't be determined until late 2013/early 2014 - after the talent search and after the IAS (and after any other testing they may need to do to complete the IAS).

So I guess the question is, should I ask the school to do any additional testing and the IAS this Spring instead of waiting until next Fall?

Thank you all for replying to me. I think reading your responses and just typing out my own thoughts has calmed my mind down. I'll just stop worrying about this until next March. By that time, I'll have had additional teacher conferences with his classroom teacher and the gifted teacher and I'll have the achievement test results. I don't know why I feel I have to stress about this. He is happy at the moment and his teacher told me at his last conference, "my challenge is to find ways to challenge him". Just her acknowledgement that she believes that that is her job puts me at ease...

[Geofizz]

Yes, the EXPLORE test can be used for the achievement part of the IAS. You will still need a proper IQ. Cogat can be used as supplemental information, but IAS requires an individually administered IQ like the WISC.

Just to be clear, the IAS isn't a test so much as a point scale that you fill out together with the school. It adds up the IQ and achievement together with a bunch of "soft" indicators that have been shown to be contributors to a successful skip.

It's always best to do the skip over the summer instead right after the start of the year. Things move slowly at schools, where administrators are juggling a lot of other needs, and the start of the school year tends to be rather chaotic for administrators. It might be wise to start casual conversations with the teacher now about how well your son is being served in his present classroom and the degree to which he is challenged.

[beru]

Originally Posted by Geofizz 

Yes, the EXPLORE test can be used for the achievement part of the IAS. You will still need a proper IQ. Cogat can be used as supplemental information, but IAS requires an individually administered IQ like the WISC.
Just to be clear, the IAS isn't a test so much as a point scale that you fill out together with the school. It adds up the IQ and achievement together with a bunch of "soft" indicators that have been shown to be contributors to a successful skip.
It's always best to do the skip over the summer instead right after the start of the year. Things move slowly at schools, where administrators are juggling a lot of other needs, and the start of the school year tends to be rather chaotic for administrators. It might be wise to start casual conversations with the teacher now about how well your son is being served in his present classroom and the degree to which he is challenged.

Thanks. I am using all the wrong language, I know. I know the IAS is a "scale" but I am just using the wrong wording...All along, I have been using "the IAS" as short hand to refer to the whole evaluation for my son's acceleration assessment. Not just the scale itself, but everything that goes into it and might be needed to complete it.

This is strange but I have sort of put my head in the sand about my son's giftedness. I have been so over-focused on not "pressuring" him that I have tried to downplay his giftedness in my mind. And subsequently, I haven't really researched a lot and I can't even remember the testing and scores he has had half the time. This is quite different from the way I usually am. I usually make myself a lay-expert on these sorts of things. But I was so afraid of being "that parent". This year I have finally embraced the fact that I was being ridiculous. I think being the mom of a "normal" younger daughter is really changing my perspective. She is right on target in preschool and the contrast to what my son was doing at that age is a shock to me.

My son had a full score of 129 on the WPPSI when he was 5 but the gifted teacher thinks he might score higher if he did an IQ test now. Would they take a 3 year old IQ test? I thought they would but should I have him do it again?

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by beru 

. I think being the mom of a "normal" younger daughter is really changing my perspective. She is right on target in preschool and the contrast to what my son was doing at that age is a shock to me.

My son had a full score of 129 on the WPPSI when he was 5 but the gifted teacher thinks he might score higher if he did an IQ test now. Would they take a 3 year old IQ test? I thought they would but should I have him do it again?

On this line: I would not underestimate your DD. Often- statistically speaking, since there are always exceptions- IQ scores are very similar for siblings. They may 'present' very very differently though. Just because your DD does things  on a more standard timeline does not mean she  wouldnt have a similar IQ to your son.

An IQ test at 5 is likely to need to be repeated since they are considered 'borderline accurate' depending on the test, the test ceilings, the tester, the mood of the child on the day of testing, the length of testing, etc. etc. They are considered much more accurate at or after at 7/8. Our school psychologist prefers to do them between 3rd (8/9) and 5th grade (11/12) since she thinks that gives the best snapshot.

Also , often IQ testing IS done 3 years apart for confirmation and/or reassessment (or IEPs- at least in our area).

They may take it though- you never know. Som