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Queer, Pregnant, and Parenting! November, December, and January 2013!!! - Page 15

post #281 of 912

Just to clarify, I think I used the word "argue"  when I did not mean it.  I do respect that all individuals make choices, religious or otherwise and I respect individual choice and try not to assume my POV is the right one for others.  when conversations arise where there is dialogue, I would openly share my choice and opinion but I would not contradict someone if they were sharing their story.  So if someone was telling me about their son's bris, I say mazel tov, I do not think they are doing something wrong.  But I do not think that choices are made more valid by wrapping religion around them, that is all that I meant, so someone who hates a certain group bc of religion does not have more of a right to do so than someone who does so just because of choice.  


And to make a potentially less volatile comparison, I am a HUGE BFing advocate but I know several people who made a choice to formula feed, (who had no medical issues) and while I wish they had made another choice, I would never say anything bc I am not in their life.  If a discussion came up, I would share why I do and why I believe in it but I think life is so hard and complicated in general that we are all doing the best we can and as parents, and friends, we offer support and dialogue.  


and easttowest. .yes, I was def not comparing M and F circ, just bringing up issues that can be tied to cultural things.  One of my friends is a moyle and I do not think she is a barbarian


prettyisa, hope the pinkeye goes away quickly, it's just yucky, and that's funny about the bathroom.  


wishin .. interesting info about cultural entry points and ritual, I do think that that all makes it more complicated, and "belonging" is such a hard thing in many circumstances 

post #282 of 912
E2W, I'm sorry my comment came off that way. I grew up Christian (baptist) and my youth group used to recognize most of the Jewish holidays (which, I now find very interesting considering how restrictive some parts of the baptist church are!). My understanding of the old testament is that god literally DID come down in a cloud (or blazing lights of glory) and prevent him from sacrificing his son, and from there requested that they make a covanent of removing foreskins, which all of Abraham's family and servants did. Or maybe thats from sunday school or a picture bible as a kid? There was also a Xena episode about it. I didn't mean it in an insulting way and I'm sorry! My dry and weird humor often gets lost in translation over the internet...

Cordelia, I'm not sure that BFing is less of a volatile issue! Our prem babies often go home on a mix of breast and bottle (they don't always have the stamina for constant BFing) and I've heard from parents who put up a picture on FB of dad bottle feeding (pumped milk) that "oh how could you formula feed your precious little ones, don't you want the best for them???". I also have to prep parents who end up on formula (usually low milk supply which just peters out under the high stress of NICU, babies who lost part of their guts to prematurity and need special partially digested formula, or kids with allergies to everything who need the special allergen free formula) because people give them shit for it, people who have no idea of the hell they've been through. Or maybe the kids adopted (my friend adopted and formula feeds and people give her dirty looks because of it). I used to be adamant about breast milk, but sometimes it's either not possible or safe or whatever. Now it just makes me nuts. I've spent 3 hours working 1:1 with a mom on breast feeding tonight, and people still tell me I'm horrible because I don't get involved in formula feeding discussions anymore. Augh!! Absolutely ridiculous.
Edited by darthtunaqueen - 12/18/12 at 4:40am
post #283 of 912
Isa, ugh! I hope she feels better soon.

Darth, you're confusing two different bible stories. Check out genesis 17 for the covenant and then skip ahead to genesis 22 for the sacrifice story. There are some interesting stories in between if you want to quickly read through.
I hear what you're saying about breastfeeding being controversial as well. It's sad that breast feeders feel judged by bottle feeders and bottle feeders feel judged by breast feeders when the two are not mutually exclusive and we all have the same goal of happy and healthy families.
post #284 of 912
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by wishin'&hopin' View Post


I think part of what we are discussing is how communities are formed--and what marks an individual as part of a community--something that I think GLBTQ folk have a relatively unique perspective of.   When we look at levitical legislation and the other works (such as the Mwindo epic or Njaal's Saga) that serve as "early national legend" or primary epics what is interesting to see is how much of these works that are "rule based" stem from the communities' desire to differentiate their group from the wider culture--a way of saying "I don't care what your friend's family does, in our family we (fill in the blank)").  One aspect of group formation is that of specific entrance rituals (Victor Turner is an anthropologist who really lays these transition rituals out beautifully) such as: baptism, a bris (it's the ritual that surrounds the circumcision that makes it a religious ritual), naming rituals, the Eagle Scout ceremony or even things like baby showers and getting your license.  


So, when we talk about circumcision I think part of what we are asking is "if we don't do this particular thing, will our child be excluded from the communities we wish our child to be a part of?"  For us, the question was easily answered--a increasingly small number of individuals circumcise their male children (so the question of will he "fit in" with his peers was moot), there are no men in our family with penises we think DS's penis needs to look like (nor do we think that his ability to be in the community of men in our family hinges on whether or not he is circumcised), we are not Jewish and therefore there is no religious mandate for circumcision in our community, we do want DS to find sexual partner's later on in life who are more interested in who he is as a person then whether or not they prefer what his penis looks like (so in some ways, the question of circumcision does impact the kind of community we HOPE our son affiliates with).  


First, I just want to echo easttowest and say thanks to everyone for a respectful conversation on a heated issue. I appreciate it, and appreciate people not flaming my DP (or me, in his place) for not automatically being anti-circ. Wishin', this comment was really helpful to me in thinking about where DP is coming from on this, and the communities from which he is seeking acceptance. Though we are not Jewish, and thus, don't have a religious reason to circumcise, I think that for DP this still is about community acceptance. In his case, I *think* it's both the community of his family and the larger, more nebulous community of normative manhood and masculinity. I think that somehow this is touching on his desire to be read as a "normal guy" with a "normal son." Obviously I personally believe that circumcision has nothing to do with either of these things, but I suspect that on some gut level (particularly in the face of a family that repeatedly denies his masculinity), this may be part of where his feelings are coming from. In any case, it gives me some helpful empathy and understanding as we move forward in our conversations about this topic, and try to get to a place that is acceptable to both of us.


In other news, DD got the flu this weekend. It was scary. Her temperature went up to 104.6, and she was so lethargic and miserable she could barely get out of bed. She's feeling better now, though she's still home today, and thus far at least, I haven't started to get any symptoms. Fingers crossed that the babies and I stay healthy. My midwife has suggested starting Tamiflu immediately if I start to get any symptoms, in hopes of warding it off. It's a class C drug though, which sketches me out. Thoughts on this? Hopefully it will remain a moot point.


Okay, back to my stack of papers that need to be graded. Almost to the end...

post #285 of 912

No need to apologize for anything - we're having a good conversation here!  I appreciate that most people who join this forum will lean towards anti-circumcision, and I truly enjoy hearing that viewpoint if it's coming from a non-confrontational place.  


Here's the baby - 13 weeks, 2 days!  DW had some bleeding last night and was pretty freaked out (understandably), so the OB told us to come in this morning.  Thankfully there was the baby, doing just fine.  :)  I am very thankful for our OB who clearly is used to dealing with freaked out pregnant ladies.  I got her permission to tell DW if there is anymore bleeding (if it's just a tiny bit, like this time), we don't need to rush off to the doctor.  Some bleeding is normal, but it totally sucks while it's happening!  And we still don't know why it happened, but hopefully we're done with it.




post #286 of 912
Bleeding does suck. I'm glad everyone is healthy.
post #287 of 912

easttowest.. congrats on the beautiful picture sorry DW had a scare but glad everything is okay!


darth.. yes I realized as i typed that that BF was potentially less controversial. .i was really just trying to explain myself, keep feeling like I am sticking my foot in my mouth somehow and every comment is somehow wrong. . but apparently did it again. .

post #288 of 912
Knitting Tigers- Your little girl sounds very smart! Sad to hear she got the flu, how terrible!

Cananny- Wow! That is an impressive belly!

Pretty Isa- So sorry your little one has pink eye. I can imagine when babies are sick that it’s very hard.

Thank you for respecting people who do not breast feed. As an adoptive mother this is a very sensitive issue for me. I think if a stranger confronted me on it or tried to be judgy I would say F off.

Thanks for the different perspectives on breast feeding.

AFU- I did call a lactation consultant today. I am going to try to see if I can practice lactating in the next month. Hopefully I will be able to produce some milk. Also, we think our names for a boy will be Ellis and for a girl Avery. Then we found out there is a female author named Ellis Avery! How weird!
post #289 of 912
Max--thanks. It does suck. She's just miserable, and it makes it impossible to sleep, which makes us miserable, too. There's also the fact that someone at daycare gave it to her, and when she gets dropped off all the little kids come RUNNING to shove their hands in her face, so we're just hoping she won't get it again. I love both names! And I was going to go on a whole diatribe about how awesome formula is (can you imagine the desperate terror to find a wetnurse if you couldn't provide milk for your child and there were no other alternatives?).

Tigers--ugh. I hope she's feeling better! And that you are, too--how scary!

E2W--glad things are looking good in there! I never had any bleeding, so I can only imagine how terrifying that must be. Hopefully your little peanut will just settle in there safe and sound and nothing else scary will happen!
post #290 of 912

Our level 2 ultrasound is in less that 24 hours...

eek!!!!!!!!!  With our son we had ultrasounds at 7,9, 13 and 20 weeks--so it feels like FOREVER since we saw the peanut at our 7 week viability ultrasound.  


Max--I love both names!  

Cordelia--I have the uncanny ability to kill threads with my comments...go figure!  

Knitting and Prettyisa--hope you and your littles are well, and Knittin', I'd go with the tamiflu...especially once out of the first trimester.  


As for lactating...I was the lactating mama this last go (DS nursed until almost 2.5) and we had thought he'd still be nursing when we had a second child and then we could cross nurse.  But, it didn't happen and I don't plan on relactating--DW will pump at work and the next babe will get expressed breast milk via bottle when DW is at work.  I still have a hard time getting my head around being a bottle feeding mama.  But, as we all know, not all parents are lactating parents...and yeah, breastmilk is best, but formula is a reasonable option that provides parents and babies with an important option when nursing or expressed milk aren't options!  Life happens, and we have much bigger fish to fry in this world.  

post #291 of 912
Max, are you doing a protocol? Lovely names. O was going to have a different name until I learned about an actress with the same name.

Isa, it sucks how much babies get sick around bigger kids, but she will stop getting sick so often soon. Pinkeye is an easy one to get. It's on a huge number of surfaces. Shared keyboards, doorknobs. Anything. So she may have not gotten it from daycare at all.

Wishin, you're a thread killer? Exciting about the ultrasound. We are both nursing but our boys still take bottles when I'm at work. Sara doesn't make enough milk to nurse them both all day every other day and Shay wants to nurse every time he sees "Bee" (baby) nurse so she has to give them both a bottle or two in order to keep from sheiveling up.
post #292 of 912

On breastfeeding -I breastfed DD for 3 months, with 2 months in, her having 1 bottle of expressed milk that my mother gave her so I could get full sleep (during the day, as I worked nights then).  DD got lazy after experiencing how easy a bottle was to feed from, and she started drinking less and less at the breast the rest of the feedings, my supply dropped, I wasn't able to keep up with expressing the milk, my cheap pump began to pump less powerfully and by 3 months, I was out of expressed milk and she had to go to formula.  I'm still kicking myself for not trying harder to keep our breastfeeding relationship going, but I have resolved to be better with the next one.  So, I guess thank goodness we have formula nowadays because finding a wetnurse would have been a chore and managing it would be really hard!

post #293 of 912
Esenbee, wow, 1 bottle did you in? Yikes! I don't think that's the norm at all. I'm sorry it didn't go as planned.

Random fact I learned recently, in Uganda formula costs $35 for a small can. A teacher at a private school makes $30 a month. Most people must figure out breastfeeding!
post #294 of 912
Max... Yes our kiddos will b close in she along with Kate's daughter ! Play dates must happen... Are you in sf or east bay? I love the names!

And thanks on the tummy... I can't possibly get much bigger.... But I know I will and that's good for the babies...

Seraf ... Yea I am def not comfy... Then to get this bad cold for two weeks sure hasn't helped... I'm glad I told my bosses too.. They def notice now smile.gif

Isa.. Sorry e is sick.. Daycare is tough at first but then her immune system should be rock solid as she gets older... I hope she's better

Wishin.., yay for u/s ... I've had them every 2-3 weeks do I don't know what I'd do if I had to go longer .. Lol to me it's normal to have the u/s at every apt

Knitting ... I hope dd is on the mend and that u don't get it !

Hi to anyone I missed

Afm .. Tomorrow is my final day of work ( I only worked pt this week) and then start modified bed rest and then mostly full bed rest mid January ... I'm looking fed to the break ... Still worry about finances but I'm trusting in life to get us through!
I had a shot today to mature the babies lungs in case they come before 30 weeks... Ill have another closer to delivery .. The needle was huge... I almost chickened out !!! Babies looked good all had higher than normal heart rates ... But I've been doing breathing treatments for my asthma so dr said its nothing to worry about... Baby A was 176 B was 165 and C was 170... Ill b glad when I'm over being so sick so I can not put anything into my body that's not neccecary ... I'm still anemic and I passed my gest diabetes test ( both of them)

I can't believe we are almost through December! Does everyone celebrate holidays?
post #295 of 912
Originally Posted by maxK View Post

I did call a lactation consultant today. I am going to try to see if I can practice lactating in the next month. Hopefully I will be able to produce some milk. Also, we think our names for a boy will be Ellis and for a girl Avery. Then we found out there is a female author named Ellis Avery! How weird!

Funny, Ellis is a name we are considering as well. Did you ever figure out what you are going to do for your middle name--come up with your own or use the 'suggested' one? Also, keep me updated on how it goes with lactation! D is planning on trying to induce and we have a meeting with a consultant in a few weeks. I hope it works out for you!!!
post #296 of 912

lise and max. . I love the name Ellis too, it was on my top three for DS, 


wishin. . I don't think you are a thread killer! 


esenbee. . sorry you had a rough time with BFing..hope this time is easier.  I did have one friend who never got milk with her first child and now oddly enough has oversupply with the 2nd so all things are possible.  I hate a shitty pump too and could never pump for than a few ounce on one side and one on the other.  If I just had to pump, I don't know what I would have done.  I had the luxury of being home so I could keep going, though one boob did give out entirely at a year, the other one kept going!


cananny.. congrats on the last day of work, I hope it makes thing a little easier for you! 


knitting tigers.. hope DD is still on the mend, I have been using elderberry syrup for flu, I would personally avoid tamiful, from what I know, most of the studies show it shortens the flu at best by one day, and class C drugs scare me for sure.  You can buy elderberry syrup or make it really easily from dried, There are some people who don't rec'd elderberry for pregnant women but from my own research as long as you use bottled, or don't make from fresh ones it should be fine (unless you have clotting issues)  I think in general people panic about herbs for pregnant women but IDK .  

post #297 of 912
A really really great resource is the Standford Hand Expression video. It was developed as a test project for NICU mamas who were taught to hand express AND pump to get and keep an excellent milk supply (and it works!). The video is really great, the LCs are calm and they go over hand positioning and technique a bunch of times. Ignore the fact that it's aimed at NICU parents (except for Canany and Lisa and quite possibly Knitting!). Really good hand expression can replace a pump entirely, especially if it's really impacting milk supply. Takes about the same amount of time to express enough as with a pump too, although there's a much steeper learning curve initially.

Max, good luck with inducing!! Another coworker did it for her first kid (adopted) and really enjoyed the experience.

Esen, if this happens again you can (usually) trick them with a nipple shield. wink1.gif
post #298 of 912
Darth, I'll have to watch the video. Despite my many years of nursing experience, hand expression is not my strong suit. I still have milk brain and have been known to forget my pump (or one of the critical parts) and had to hand express and it kills my hands and leaves me feeling like a sticky mess so I figure I'm doing something wrong.
post #299 of 912

*not 1 single bottle, but 1 bottle a day, realize now how it could have been interpreted wrong.

post #300 of 912
Still, a bottle a day causing bottle preference is probably not the norm. Shay will unlatch and go for a bottle because it is less work (for him) but they are out of sight when I'm home. I have a teacher friend whose son took formula all day (even weekends) and nursed all evening. That would work for supply / pumping issues but not nipple confusion.

In other words, I wouldn't worry about a repeat.
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