Queer, Pregnant, and Parenting! November, December, and January 2013!!! - Page 19

[seraf]

CaNanny, great nursery.

Max, I don't even decorate my house, I can't imagine trying to do a nursery.

Mami, your family is beautiful. Do your little ones sleep?

Life here is good. We opened gifts yesterday and fun was had by all. I don't have any good pictures of the kids all piled up, but I have one of them going through their stockings.


Sara left for Boston today for an overnight so I'm taking oodles of pictures today. The boys have seemed crowded in their little blue tub, so I let them have the whole bathtub. Here is how they sat.

Soren had just dipped his face in water and was unhappy about it, but not ready to get out. Shay gave him a hug and kiss which I tried to get a picture of but missed.

[mami2mami]

Seraf- Thanks!...Our kids sleep all night..boys @ 8 or 8:30 pm..Alexis 9 or 9:30pm..L is the hardest to go down but sleeps all night.

[maxK]

Oooo. I had my first lactation consultation. I rented a hospital grade pump and have officially started the routine. I am doing hand expressions and pumping about once every three hours or so. I am getting tiny little droplets mostly when I hand express. I was so excited to see the drops at the consultation. Does anyone know if that is normal or do you think it's a result of taking progesterone? Still haven't received my drugs in the mail so I picked up some herb tinctures and tea today. This is freakin' hard work!~

[seraf]

Max, that's awesome! I have no idea what's normal but it sounds great to me.  Pumping is hard work!

QOTD: What does Attachment parenting mean to you? A while ago some folks said that parts of AP didn't work for them, so I have been curious.   

[esenbee2]

QOTD -I never even heard of attachment parenting until I watched The L Word and Bette and Tina had the social worker over to their house for the evaluation when Bette wanted to adopt Angelica..... Lol. Since joining the Mothering community, what I have read about it, a lot of it (but not all) seems right in line the ideal in my head of how I parent DD. Of course, DD is quite good at working my frustration level to overload and sometimes I don't even realize that I myself need a timeout before I can properly handle the situation further. What resonates the most with me in parenting a toddler/preschooler is adjusting discpline and how I handle meltdowns to her personality. DD is an extremely Highly Sensitive Child, so I have to be very careful in how discipline is done and it usually involves a lot of comforting and understanding, letting her know that it's okay to be upset, but her actions are not how we appropriately handle our emotions, etc.
What I have also learned through various articles written by practicing parents is that the definition is much like the definition of being a libertarian; it has a different personal meaning to each, and asking one parent about, then asking another, you get different responses!

[prettyisa]

Max--that's awesome! I'm so glad to hear that you're body is responding the way you'd hoped!

Bittersweet visit with my best friend tonight. She, her husband, their two kids and his sister came over for dinner--it was such a good time! Their oldest daughter is three and the youngest is about Edie's age, and they all really loved playing together and we loved talking. It sucks because they feel like family but moved to Portland last year so instead of just going downstairs to their former apartment, they are going away for 6 months.

QOTD--I really like parts of the AP philosophy, but it hasn't been something that my family has jumped into fully. By that I mostly mean that I love wearing Edie, but not all the time, and would usually prefer to let her sit by herself while I do things like cook or clean instead of wearing her (as long as she's not upset). Similarly, I prefer her to sleep in her crib (not that she stays there, especially these days). DP and I seem to lean a little more towards letting her experience the world outside of our arms than the AP books I've read recommend. That said, I think it only works for us this way because we happen to have this particular mix of personalities. I can totally imagine a future sibling with a different temperment who wants to be closer to us, and I expect that if one shows up we'd move more towards accommodating that need.

[onemommyonemama]

Max - That is AWESOME!!! I pumped to induce and that definately did not happen to me :) way to go! I have no idea about progesterone, but hope things continue on smoothly :)

AOTD - To me with me DD, attachment parenting was about letting her decide when she was ready for any kind of independance and believing that you can't spoil a child with physical comfort, verbal comfort, etc... That the relationship between the parents and the babe is very significant in their development, and to strive for a very healthy, compassionate relationship. Most of my understanding came from Dr Sears and other ap parents.

I originally understood this to mean allowing space for a child to self-wean in all ways without encouragement. This was simpler for us when DD1 was a new babe. Around 6-12 months her sleep was quite bad (1hr chunks) and we were afraid we were setting bad habits, that co-sleeping and nursing on demand would continue at that pace for years. The way sleep was happening was no longer healthy for DD1 and DW - but we felt guilty trying to adapt it at all - and definately did not want her to cry, at all.

It took time to realize that AP can include offering opportunities to little ones to develop, that we didn't have to wait for her to choose them. We thought this had to happen spontaniously. And another important thing for us was realizing that AP was a relationship, and that parents had to be healthy in that relationship too.

Also - we came to recognise that crying itself wasn't something we needed to be afraid of. That DD1 could cry, without crying it out - that crying was communication and as long as we were listening and acting compassionately, it was okay. (I think we reacted too fast when DD1 was stirring in her sleep, or fussing a bit in the night. We didn't let her try to self-sooth and immediately put her to breast and she got into a really strong nurse-to-sleep at any light wake up thing).

We didn't think it was AP-allowed, but we encouraged DD1 to try to night wean at 13 months. We felt so guilty about wanting that, but man, the change was pretty instant and easy. SHe never cried it out, but did cry at times in my arms with DP in the other room. DD1 adapted so fast. It made us feel that we could offer opportunities for change and if they were easy and not stressful, she was ready. If they weren't easy, or caused stress for her that was unhealthy - we just stopped and tried again in a few weeks/months.

I think what we learned about AP is helping enormously with DD2. She sleeps much better because I had learned the difference between night waking/stiring and hunger. We give DD2 many more opportunities to try things than DD1 (we carried DD1 alot and didn't do as much playing on the floor as a very young babe, I nurse her to sleep, but encourage her to actually fall into deep sleep without breast in the mouth. etc///). I really am enjoying learning about montessori right now because it helps me understand what they are both able to do/learn and to invite them to try it. My DD1 loves to try things like cooking, sewing, etc... loads of things I wouldn't have understood a 3 yr old could do, but do now.

I think I communicate much better with DD2. I can understand her more because of the experiences with DD1 - and that has helped too. I know her cries and I think she trusts my understanding of her communication more that DD1 did, if that makes sense?

What I need help with is discipline. DP and I are trying to figure out discipline with our DD1. Gah. we've read about positive discipline, gentle discipline. we are uncoordinated and messy though. I wish we could practice raising children and get into a flow before we actually tried to do it :)

[maxK]

onemommyonemama- I like your take on trying a little pause before getting DD2. It is my hope that we try this method with our first. My mom thinks I am going to respond immediately so we'll see how that goes.

My mother was a Montessori teacher for years and I went to her school from the time I was two years through first grade. I have my fondest memories of school from those years. I was allowed to read at my own pace and was reading a third grade reader by the time I left. I remember not wanting to spend so much time at the math table but my nice teacher coaxed me over there from time to time.

QOTD- I have no idea what Attached Parenting is but it makes me think of the hovering parent. I definitely do not want to be a hovering helicopter. It's my goal to create opportunities for learning without being central to it.

Day 2 of pumping- I have all my natural herbs. My drugs have still not arrived in the mail. I am still producing little droplets. I sure hope I get that package from the UK soon.

[pokeyAC]

QOTD - I don't think of AP as helicopter parenting.  I think of it more as developing a strong attachment with your child so that when they need to they feel confident and secure to go out and be independent.  They know you are there if they need you, and they can do things on their own.  Responding to their needs develops that attachment.  I'm not a parent yet, but when I think about the opposite of AP, I think of parents who aren't responsive to their kids and the kids act out in ways because they want more attention and connection.  I think I am partly drawn to it because I did not always get a lot of attention as a child.  My Dad traveled a lot for work and my Mom was very busy because I have twin sisters who are 2 years younger and an older sister.  There are many aspects of AP that appeal to me because they just seem natural to me.  When I see a baby crying, my instinct is to respond.  I don't think there should be any hard rules about what it is and what you have to do.  I think people should do the parts that feel right for them and their child.  My wife and I have discussed some things we would like to do, and we agree on many things but not all.  DW is ok with a co-sleeper but she doesn't want the baby in the bed with us.  I don't think there would be room anyway, but we compromised on agreeing to a co-sleeper on the side.  We will just have to see how it goes.     

[seraf]

Originally Posted by pokeyAC 

There are many aspects of AP that appeal to me because they just seem natural to me.  When I see a baby crying, my instinct is to respond.  I don't think there should be any hard rules about what it is and what you have to do.  I think people should do the parts that feel right for them and their child. 

This is pretty much how I feel about it, that's why I was confused how it wouldn't work for someone. I am very AP and not even vaguely helicopter-y (don't the Sears have, like, 9 kids? How do you hover over 9 kids?). My main thoughts about AP are that it balances the needs of everyone in the family, it's ok to respond to a child's needs without fear of spoiling and "watch the baby, not the clock." I think all the other stuff is just to make life easier for the parents. Co-sleeping makes nursing easier. Baby wearing is hella handy at times, not for 24/7, and it's a great way to bond with a non-gestational babe.

Omom, what kind of discipline issues are you having? Many of us have BTDT and may have ideas.
Edited by seraf - 12/28/12 at 1:55pm

[starling&diesel]

Originally Posted by maxK 
QOTD- I have no idea what Attached Parenting is but it makes me think of the hovering parent. I definitely do not want to be a hovering helicopter. It's my goal to create opportunities for learning without being central to it.
 

I think of AP as the opposite of helicopter parenting ... I think of AP as parenting so that you and your immediate family are your child's most important connections and personal attachments, with the hopes that having solid family attachment gives the child the sense of belonging and self-confidence to explore the world at their own speed and on their own terms.  

Although its written in outdated hyperbole, I really like The Continuum Concept, which is one of the big AP books, and it is all about letting children explore the world, but with the comfort of knowing that they will always be able to find unconditional love and support from those to whom they are primarily attached.  

This is partly why we don't use strollers, cribs, safety gates, kid leashes, drawer latches, etc, because I want my kids to get to know the world as it is, not as it is so often artificially constructed for their supposed safety.  To me, AP is why I'm happy to put my children down on the ground anywhere (forest, beach, store, airport, sidewalk, foreign countries) and happy for them to get dirty and explore, which they're both content to do.  AP is a large contributor to our decision to homeschool, because of the emphasis on raising children in communities that include all ages and walks of life, where the children are expected to participate as individuals as opposed to being grouped by age and segregated from the world at large.

These are the pieces that work for us, that make sense and resonate.  It'll be different for everyone, I'm sure.  It's most certainly a hot button topic, that lends itself easily to the "holier-than-thou" aspect of a parenting.  And not to say that you have to co-sleep or homeschool to be AP.  Not at all.  There are so many pieces and parts, it's valuable to take what works and leave the rest, yet still keep the basic principles intact.  

Down the line, I hope that a lot of the AP things that we do will help cement our relationships with our children as they get to be older, and when the majority of children switch their primary attachments to their peers.  I'm hoping that we will continue to be our children's main relationship, until they're well into their teen years.

We're huge Gordon Neufeld fans in our house, and I highly recommend his book Hold Onto Your Kids.

I wonder if people who would tend to helicopter parenting have co-opted parts of AP parenting?  

Why I think AP is particularly valuable to queer folks:

We come by our families in so many different ways, but rarely by the man & wife / sperm & egg formula.

I think that AP can be a valuable way to cement relationships between children and non-gestational parents especially.  Co-sleeping, for example.  Hours and hours and HOURS of bonding with little to no extra effort.  In our case, my DP works long days, and so she's always looked forward to sleeping with the kids as a way to reconnect, even as we sleep.

And for those folks among us who acquire our children from outside our gene pools entirely (me & DP included) I think it's a great way to work towards becoming a tight, healthy family despite not sharing any blood.  

[DesertSunsets]

Guys, I am a terribly sucky forum-participator these days!  DW and I keep up, but I am awful at posting regularly.  Mostly I think because I hate posting from my phone.  Anyway.  

Max, I think getting droplets while you pump is AWESOME this early!  I think that's a great sign.  I induced lactation, but on the regular protocol instead of the accelerated and I got little droplets the first time I pumped and I was so excited!  Unfortunately, DD didn't want to latch onto me and we both disliked the shields and ultimately, with my DW having fire-hose breasts we just gave it up.  She makes more than enough milk for Little Bird, and it wasn't worth all the frustration for DD or myself.  With you being the sole breastfeeder, I'm sure it'll go scads better.  

Mami - your family is SO freaking adorable.  Your kiddos are all beautiful, and so are you and DW!  

Seraf - I really love the picture/story of the boys together in the big bathtub.  I actually laughed out loud. 

Carmen, congratulations on your pregnancy!  We are rooting so hard for your little family to expand.  Thank you for trusting us with the knowledge of your lovely bean.  

Welcome to all the newly pregnant!  This has truly been an amazing forum for my little family for a long time now.  And I feel guilty for neglecting all of my queer friends! 

Life here is nothing short of fantastic.  Every day we are thrilled to be moms to our Everleigh.  She'll be 4 months old on New Year's!  Incredible how it feels like she's been a member of the family for eons, but also it seems that she just arrived a few days ago.  She is just such a joy to us and our families.  Why don't I just show you, instead of telling you. 

It was really my Dad's Christmas... he hardly ever gave the baby up!

Opening her first present. 

In the Christmas aftermath.

With her Pops, in his '53 Chevy project car. 

Early driving lesson!  My dad calls her "Poppy's Chopper".  The baby, not the car, lol. 

We went to a wedding yesterday and she got all dressed up! 

We just think she is the most charming thing we've ever known!  

Thanks for letting me brag on her.  :) 

[starling&diesel]

Dessert ... Those are stunning photos. And how delightful to see your dad so besotted!
Mami ... I adore your family. And I love that pic of you and DP with the tree.
Max ... I'm a Domperidone veteran if you have any questions. And way to go on the pumping! (which autocorrect tried to turn into "pimping") I have a friend who induced and still nurses her two+ year old adopted child. She also used the Lact-Aid system, which I am also a veteran user of. Highly recommend it. I have a friend in the SF area who might ve ready to part with her's.


And Carmen ... What can I say? I am beyond thrilled for you and your family! I wanted to PM you on FB, but I'm such a newbie at it that I'm afraid it'll show on your timeline. Which MW practice are you using?
Such wonderful news!

[starling&diesel]

And Cananny! Love the nursery!!!

Hello to everyone else ... I've been flattened by the flu today, so have spent the afternoon in bed alternately watching Catherine Tate videos on YouTube and making trips to the loo. Ugh.

[carmen358]

I also think of AP as creating a strong attachment with your child - both physically and emotionally. I can see how it can be thought of as helicopter parenting but I agree that it's actually the opposite.

starling, I'm going to go with Pomegranate again. 3 of the midwives who provided care for us are still there and while the fourth is gone I still really like the remaining ones. I'd like another home birth if possible and I'm comfortable with them :)

[Cananny]

Thanks everyone for the comments on the nursery.. DP did most of it.. we are waiting for their quilts to arrive and then the room will be finished :)  I am excited to put the boys IN the room.. Funny thing is we have had little ones sleep in there already between the foster babies and one of the kids DP nannies for stays with us on Fridays.. She is 2 and loves the decorations on the wall :)

QOTD.. Being a nanny I have seen it all.. I have seen the helicopter parent to the super AP.. DP and I fall in the middle of things.. We are def not Helicopter parents! 

The thing is with having three babies.. we cant really co sleep.. not enough room and I move alot in my sleep.. so It prob would not be safe.. I do love wearing babies.. and DP and I each have a carrier we prefer so we hope to each wear one and use a stroller.. we do have a triple stroller and when I am alone i will prob have to use that.  DP and I feel we are going to be a little less strict than we are with our nanny children. I believe in listening to the child, giving them clear boundries and expectations and provide a  lot of patience and love for the boys.  One thing that bothers both of us is when everyone says Just wait until you have your own.. they will not be as well mannered as you think.. ect.. I know it will be different because we are ON 24/7.. but we are confident that we will guide them to be strong loving men. I agree AP does not mean all or nothing... 

 Desert.. As always Ever is adorable.. she is such a happy little girl.. and I love that your dad is so in love with this little peanut~

Max. I am excited to hear you are getting some drops!  I told DP and told her she should try to induce to help have enough milk.. she said no because of her work and hours ect. it does not seem do able~

we had a growth U/S today.. the boys are growing.. i am 26 weeks on Sunday.. Baby A is 1 pound 15 oz Baby B is our tiny guy at 1 lb 7 oz and Baby C still our chunk at 2 lbs 1 oz.. Baby B looks good and they still see no other defects with him.. the SUA can make him smaller.. so they are keeping an eye on his growth.. My cervix is still closed and high measuring at 3.5 so the tech said that was great to see at 26 weeks.. I am really hopeful we will make it to 34 weeks.. Our C section is set for Feb 25th. 

[seraf]

Blast! The Internet ate my post.

Starling, I hope you feel better soon.

Desert, I love her dark hair and chubby cheeks.

CaNanny, let the "just wait" comments roll off your back. You have plenty of experience and you'll do fine. On the other hand, most people are better parents before they have kids and you will soon be rolling your eyes at people who tell you their little one will sleep through the night from birth, love all vegetables, always say please and thank you and generally poop rainbows. I have been thinking of you a lot the last 2 days as I've been doing mixed feedings for the boys. I've done singletons and twins with bottles but never given my own children bottles so this was a first for me. I hope you have great support and can get at least some of the boys successfully to the breast. Just doing mixed feedings during the day (every third feeding was a bottle), I had 14 bottles to wash over 2 days. The first few months of nursing may be awkward, but if you can get the hang of it, wow will it ever save you some dirty dishes. I also forgot how much more hands-free nursing is. You could nurse one and give two bottles or nurse two and bottle the third once you get the hang of it.

Here the boys were taking bottles while I read the kids bedtime stories. Shay drank his all up and decided to nurse, too.

[mami2mami]

Desert- Everleigh is so big and adorable. We can hardly believe she''ll be four months old in just a few days. We have not been very active with posts either but of course we're always lurking. By the way, thanks for the family compliments.

Starling- Hope you feel better soon! My favorite picture this season has to be the one I took with DW. I guess it's because we don't take many pictures unless it's of the kids.

[planet]

Hey you all!

On the QOTD - We have just been following our instincts when it comes to parenting, and it turns out that a lot of what we are doing is "attachment parenting."  It feels instinctual to me to wear Wylie, respond to his cries swiftly and calmly, pay a lot of attention to his various cues, and co-sleep.  I hope I am not becoming the dreaded "helicopter parent."  I am familiar with the style of parenting that I think you guys are referring to from being a 7th grade teacher, but I'm not sure what that looks like with babies.  I have not done extensive reading on AP but I'm familiar with Dr. Sears and my BFF, who has two kids, is a huge AP advocate and she encouraged me to co-sleep with the babe.  Unfortunately, co-sleeping is more complicated than I had imagined...our bed is just not big enough.  We are pretty broke and live in a small apartment so getting a new bed is not on the table of options for us  right now.  I am a light sleeper and struggle at times with insomnia, as many of you know (hence me being awake right now - the amazing stuff I have been taking for the past month + is suddenly failing me), and it turns out that Wylie is a pretty light sleeper, too (unless he's in the carrier - then he can sleep through anything!).  So I struggle to get comfy and wake him up, and when he thrashes and kicks in his sleep, it wakes me up...sigh.  Of course, I'm glad I wake up to hear him move around, because I know he is safe in the bed, but it is also frustrating when I am not able to get back to sleep, and even more frustrating when I accidentally wake him up just by moving a tiny bit!  Also, I am getting tired of going to bed at 9pm every night, which is what we've been doing so I can nurse him to sleep then not disturb him by getting up.  We are thinking about trying out the co-sleeper soon, except we are concerned that I won't be able to nurse him back to sleep, which has been a HUGE life saver for us (ever since we finally figured out side-lying nursing).  I guess the co-sleeper is a lot lower than the bed so it may not be possible.  Anyone have experiences with a co-sleeper they'd like to share?

Desert, as you know, I think Everleigh is just gorgeous!  What an amazing babe.  You guys are doing an awesome job.  Also, I had a dream that my little family went to Tucson (where DP used to live when we first met) and went on a hike in the desert and ran into you guys!  Just thought you might like to know.

Starling, I hope you get well soon!

CaNanny, great news about the boys!  The nursery is so sweet!  Do you have a crib for each baby or can they share?  I love Dr. Seuss.

Seraf, I love the bathtub photo and story.  That is just about the cutest thing I ever heard.

Max, that is awesome about the drops!  Yeah!!!

Mami, your family is gorgeous!  Thanks for sharing the pictures!

And one more question for all of you, since I love picking your brains so much:  What's the deal with "nap time"?  Wylie is not on a regular nap schedule at all.  He sleeps when he needs to sleep.  Usually he naps in the Ergo while I walk around, visit with friends, and do stuff.  Sometimes he naps in my lap after nursing.  Every now and then, but not too often these days, I try to lay him down for a "proper" nap. I was trying really hard for awhile there to lay him down in his little rocking bed for naps, to help him get used to it, at least once a day but usually more. But he rarely would sleep for more than 20 mins in it, and now that he's a lot heavier, it is a LOT of work to put him to sleep over and over again, and it hurts my back to hold and rock and bounce him to sleep multiple times in a row.  So perhaps I got a little lazy...but it's more fun to walk around and do stuff and let him sleep for a long time than to stay holed up at home trying to get him to sleep somewhat unsuccessfully over and over again.  What do you think, is this okay?  Or should we be working harder to get him to take a "normal" nap?

[onemommyonemama]

planet - in my experience, babes go from having short irregular naps to naturally falling into more of a rythum and for the most part, a longer nap. There was this woman who used an app to document when her baby slept from NB to a year and it was cool to see it all irratic, then falling into something like three distinctish naps, then a bit irratic as it moved to two naps, then one.

Sage is 9 months and has two pretty regular times when she gets sleepy and naps (1030ish (for 30-45 min) and 2ish(long nap)). She used to have shorter naps and many more of them.

I also find it hard to carry Sage for all naps, and am not able to lay her down in bed (because DD1 would be alone to her 3.5 year old devices..) I have found it awesome to use a stroller each day for one of the naps. DD1 had this too. It started with an ergo, I would walk her at that time and then when really asleep, I would transfer her from the ergo to bed (back carry, I would sit on the bed, gently lay down, unbuckle, and leave her sleeping ontop of the ergo). This wasn't always succesful or ideal. i bought a stroller and tried that and loved it. I went the same route, she fell asleep, I rolled the stroller back into the house (in the winter or on the deck in the summer). She loved and still loves it (she is nearly 4). Now they both go in a double stroller for  afternoon nap. Sage sleeps longer this way. works lovely for us.