Health department call after pertussis confirmation?

[momof9kiddos]

Hi!  We have been fighting pertussis in our household.  Our two year old has tested positive (we wanted to know for sure so we could treat the entire family before the twins arrive.)  We have 7 children and I'm pregnant with twins.  Our first two children (ages 12 and 9) were up to date except for their boosters, and our third had partial immunizations.  We discontinued all immunizations after our 2nd & 3rd child had reactions including:

Measles from the MMR

106.8 Temps

Turning blue/lethargic

Loss of speech

Loss of eye contact

Regressed potty training that wasn't resolved until almost 5 years

2 out of 3 contracting Pertussis (not test confirmed) while up to date on DTaP

Sick in general all the time

Children 4 through 7 have have no immunizations and we sign a religious waiver for all the children every year so they can attend public school.  The doctor we had at the time told us these were not reactions and would not report them, or even give us the batch number so we could report them.  I was very aggravated and switched doctors based on this and have been with our current doctor since that time (about 7-8 years.)  Besides the reactions they have had, we didn't realize what all was in the immunizations until around that time we started investigating and being concerned about all the reactions.  That's when we took the time to educate ourselves on what is in the vaccines and came to the conclusion that we do not religiously agree. 

My questions is:  I just got a got from my local health department.  She was very kind and said that anytime there is a confirmed case they like to know when the symptoms were, where we think they got it, who lives in the household, if they are immunized, etc.  She said they do it so the CDC can keep track of the information.  She acted like it was a standard call.  Do I have any reason to worry?

I told her we discontinued because of their reactions which weren't reported and religious objections.  She asked what religion we are and I told her we attend a Church of Christ in Union.  We've been going there for 6 years and previously attended a Baptist Church for 10 years prior to that.  I didn't know you had to be a certain religion to not believe in vaccines....... 

Is this standard?  

(We are in the middle of selling our house, I've had some pregnancy bleeding recently, we think all the kids have pertussis, and many other stressful things going on.  I really don't need anymore stress during this pregnancy right now ......any info would be helpful and appreciated.)

[WildKingdom]

The health department always calls after there is a report of certain diseases. They'd call for non-VPDs also like Lyme disease.

They don't care if you vaccinate or not, they are just collecting epidemiological data.

[marsupial-mom]

I would just answer the questions honestly and don't worry. They do track infectious diseases. Your honest answers can help them have reliable information.

If you get defensive or react with fear then they may worry more and become more intrusive. So just talk to them like they're a curious friend.

[momof9kiddos]

Thank you, that's what I did.  At the end I asked her it there had been a big outbreak lately, as we were expecting twins and that I was worried about taking them out after they are born.  She told me that it was constantly in circulation, not any more this year than usual, but to be careful with the babies since they would be too young to vaccinate even if we wanted to.  I also asked her if it was just for statistical purposes and she told me it was, that his name wouldn't even be released. 

I also told her to feel free to call me if she had any other questions. 

I was just concerned about whether it's standard or not, but it sounds like it is.  Thank you!  :) 

[threenorns]

about your newborns:  if you are breastfeeding, then they are probably going to be safer than anybody else in your family from infection as you'll be pumping them full of antibodies.

funny timing:  public health left about 20min ago - my daughter got scratched in the eye by the cat (100% her fault - she chased the cat behind the couch, then shoved her face in after it and said BOO!) - so now my indoor-only cat is quarantined for 10 days and blah blah blah (er... okay... so... basically nothing changes).  problem is i have to come up with $100 to get it vaccinated against rabies (the vet won't do the shot without a $79 exam fee on top) so i told the public health worker, "you realize this is a serious deterrence for me to report subsequent animal encounter issues, right?" 

but she was very nice, very sweet, so i didn't bite her head off and spit it into the driveway.

[ma2two]

I think that's pretty standard, although I don't know if you are legally required to answer any of those questions.

But she was completely out of line asking you what your religion is. If that had happened to me, I would have told her that was not her concern, and I would have reported her to her supervisor.

Have you already learned about treating pertussis with sodium ascorbate? Are you aware that antibiotics do not treat pertussis, but only shorten the contagious period? And that the contagious period may have already passed?

[emmy526]

i agree her questions about your religion were NONE of her business and legally you could have refused to answer it, and then told her it was against the US Constitution her asking you about your religion.  I agree, with ma2two, you should report her to her supervisor for that totally UNprofessional behavior.  Her asking someone about their religion, is NOT part of her job.  And no, you don't have to be a 'certain religion' to avoid vaccines...if your beliefs do not permit the procedure, so be it.  The only place  you'd run into a problem is west virginia or mississippi, where they only have medical exemptions for entry into school.  

[momof9kiddos]

Have you already learned about treating pertussis with sodium ascorbate? Are you aware that antibiotics do not treat pertussis, but only shorten the contagious period? And that the contagious period may have already passed?

Yes, they started their Sodium Ascorbate a week ago today (the same day I got the call that it was indeed Pertussis.)  It took quite a bit of calculating weight/kg per amount for 7 kids lol!  I had to write it all down on a sheet.  I actually read where antibiotics could make the cough worse.  We didn't want to not take them and then get bashed for that with the medical community.  We filled the prescriptions (so no one would know if we decided not to), but then figured we would just take them even though we are sure everyone was past the contagious stage.  We also took them just to say we did (because we don't lie), and to make everyone else feel secure that we weren't contagious any longer. 

It's amazing the difference in our 2 year old (the confirmed case) just after taking the sodium ascorbate for 24-36 hours.  His cough has almost disappeared!  :)

[momof9kiddos]

Originally Posted by threenorns 

about your newborns:  if you are breastfeeding, then they are probably going to be safer than anybody else in your family from infection as you'll be pumping them full of antibodies.

funny timing:  public health left about 20min ago - my daughter got scratched in the eye by the cat (100% her fault - she chased the cat behind the couch, then shoved her face in after it and said BOO!) - so now my indoor-only cat is quarantined for 10 days and blah blah blah (er... okay... so... basically nothing changes).  problem is i have to come up with $100 to get it vaccinated against rabies (the vet won't do the shot without a $79 exam fee on top) so i told the public health worker, "you realize this is a serious deterrence for me to report subsequent animal encounter issues, right?" 

but she was very nice, very sweet, so i didn't bite her head off and spit it into the driveway.

Oh my goodness, well at least she was nice!  :)  I keep forgetting about the breastfeeding antibodies.  We have exclusively breastfed all 7 of our other children, so I'm hoping I can successfully do this with the twins too.

Speaking of funny timing.  I spent all last night in the ER.  Our 6 year old daughter fell and hit her head on the corner tile of our drop down living room, I had just told her 3 times to stop what she was doing, argghh!  So she had a gash which needed to be stapled.  I thought "Oh great, this is just wonderful timing!"  But luckily my cousin was on duty at the ER whom is a nurse, so I didn't get any crap about the not vaccinating.  Yay! 

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmy526 

i agree her questions about your religion were NONE of her business and legally you could have refused to answer it, and then told her it was against the US Constitution her asking you about your religion.  I agree, with ma2two, you should report her to her supervisor for that totally UNprofessional behavior.  Her asking someone about their religion, is NOT part of her job.  And no, you don't have to be a 'certain religion' to avoid vaccines...if your beliefs do not permit the procedure, so be it.  The only place  you'd run into a problem is west virginia or mississippi, where they only have medical exemptions for entry into school.  

I was caught totally off guard, I stuttered a little at first out of shock, but then kindly answered.  We don't consider ourselves one certain religious denomination and it's not like our whole church is anti-vaccine, so I really didn't know what to say.  I guess I'll not stress unless something else comes out of it, then I could throw a fit about the asking my religion thing.  The nice thing is that our pastors wife is the school nurse, so she has no problem with our religious waiver and helps us update it every year.

Edited by momof9kiddos - 11/2/12 at 8:55am

[momof9kiddos]

My computer decided to hiccup and I haven't figured out how to delete this post and the next two, so Hiccup!  :)

Edited by momof9kiddos - 11/2/12 at 8:59am

[momof9kiddos]

Hiccup

Edited by momof9kiddos - 11/2/12 at 8:58am

[momof9kiddos]

Edited by momof9kiddos - 11/2/12 at 8:57am

[threenorns]

burp.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by threenorns 

 problem is i have to come up with $100 to get it vaccinated against rabies (the vet won't do the shot without a $79 exam fee on top) so i told the public health worker, "you realize this is a serious deterrence for me to report subsequent animal encounter issues, right?" 

There are free rabies vaccine clinics.  Just google your town plus "free rabies vaccine clinics."   Good luck!

[sassyfirechick]

Depending where you live, you can get a rabies exemption from the vet.  BUT, it depends on the state.  I believe there are 13 states that offer medical exemption from rabies.  I'm in CT and unfortunately the state vet is a B* (told to me by my very calm, very sweeet holistic vet) and refuses any and all exemptions that come to her desk bc she was hired to help the people be free of rabies, not to keep annimals safe.  I've had run-ins as a trainer with animal bites but I've never given the ER any of my clients information.  I know the animals were up to date and I know how much they would be harassed so I always said it was against my company policy to give out that information :-) 

[lilbabeski]

Originally Posted by momof9kiddos 

I told her we discontinued because of their reactions which weren't reported and religious objections.  She asked what religion we are and I told her we attend a Church of Christ in Union.  We've been going there for 6 years and previously attended a Baptist Church for 10 years prior to that.  I didn't know you had to be a certain religion to not believe in vaccines....... 

Just to clarify: when we decline vaccinations based on our religion that means that the doctrine and practices of our religion tell us it's not ok to vaccinate. In other words it would be written and practiced somewhere in church doctrine. Not all religions are against vaccinations. When we decline immunizations based on our philosophical beliefs (i.e. we think the toxins are harmful to our children) that means we've come to our decision based on our own mode of reasoning. It's easy to confuse the two but there is a difference.

I hope your family is feeling better and that the rest of your pregnancy is smooth. 

[shiningpearl]

Originally Posted by lilbabeski 

Just to clarify: when we decline vaccinations based on our religion that means that the doctrine and practices of our religion tell us it's not ok to vaccinate. In other words it would be written and practiced somewhere in church doctrine. Not all religions are against vaccinations. When we decline immunizations based on our philosophical beliefs (i.e. we think the toxins are harmful to our children) that means we've come to our decision based on our own mode of reasoning. It's easy to confuse the two but there is a difference.

I hope your family is feeling better and that the rest of your pregnancy is smooth. 

Actually in most states, it is personal religious beliefs and not those of a church doctrine.  If you believe that God created you perfectly without needing vaccines to keep you safe, and being willing to deal with whatever God brings into your life then that would be religious.  Philosophical beliefs may have brought some to that point (made them question and research), but it doesn't mean someone don't personally belive that God doesn't desire us to bypass the immune system He designed.  

Edited by shiningpearl - 11/4/12 at 6:13am

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by shiningpearl 

Actually in most states, it is personal religious beliefs and not those of a church doctrine.  If you believe that God created you perfectly without needing vaccines to keep you safe, and being willing to deal with whatever God brings into your life then that would be religious.  Philosophical beliefs may have brought some to that point (made them question and research), but it doesn't mean they don't personally belief that God doesn't desire us to bypass the immune system He designed.  

     

And the few states that specifically say in the state law that it has to be part of church doctrine, are not following the U.S. Constitution. Every time such a law has been challenged in court, it has been struck down.

Usually those state laws don't require proof, so people haven't bothered to challenge the law.