or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › Birth Stories › Sometimes birth satisfaction is spelt c-e-s-a-r-e-a-n
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sometimes birth satisfaction is spelt c-e-s-a-r-e-a-n - Page 2

post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post

True, but should they do whatever they want to make sure they don't have to deal with that trauma?  

Yes. Unless you have personally ever experienced some form off birth trauma you really cannot understand how debilitating it can be.
post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post


Yes. Unless you have personally ever experienced some form off birth trauma you really cannot understand how debilitating it can be.

 

I've experienced sexual trauma, which has made birth challenging for me in different ways.  I know how hard it can be to work through trauma, but I don't think that gives people a carte blanche to do whatever they can to avoid having to feel it.  If I let the trauma I experienced dictate my choices then I would never let anyone touch me below the waist, which I'm sure you can imagine is sub-optimal for various reasons.  Also, it sounds like it wasn't birth trauma that made her want a c-section; she felt this way before she gave birth the first time.  I know she didn't post her story to create a discussion about what she should have done, but I couldn't pass by without saying anything.  If this forum is intended for polite convo only then I apologize; hopefully it's okay to argue against what's said.  

post #23 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post

I'm a bit confused headscratch.gif  You say that your first birth was traumatic, is that because there were people making you feel violated or rushed or was it because you had to lay on your back which resulted in 2nd degree tears?  I'm just not sure which part traumatized because, from the sounds of it, it was a pretty good birth. 

 

She wanted a c-section. She didn't want to go into labour, or have a vaginal birth. It's not hard to understand why that would be traumatizing. A large part of my trauma from my first c-section..and my second one...and my third one - came from the fact that I didn't want them and was forced/coerced - both verbs apply, depending which baby we're referring to - into having them (the staff completely ignored my verbal refusal, even though there is nothing in my records to indicate a need for a crash c-section, which is what I got). While I can't relate at all to wanting a cesarean, I can absolutely relate to going through one of the most major events of one's life and having the people around one completely and utterly disregard one's needs. It doesn't really matter which direction that comes from - it's abusive and traumatizing.


Edited by Storm Bride - 11/12/12 at 10:10am
post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post

I'm a bit confused headscratch.gif  You say that your first birth was traumatic, is that because there were people making you feel violated or rushed or was it because you had to lay on your back which resulted in 2nd degree tears?  I'm just not sure which part traumatized because, from the sounds of it, it was a pretty good birth.  It sounds like the medical help there was respectful, seeing as how they kept the lights low, encouraging you to trust your body, giving you pain meds, and whatever else.  You also had a very fast labor compared to most first labors.  This also makes me scratch my head because you said you wanted an elective cesarean right off the bat without having even experienced labor and birth.  I don't understand why anyone would want major surgery that has a risk of infection, increased blood loss (vs a vaginal delivery), possible injury to your bowels or bladder, higher risk of maternal mortality, higher risk of breathing problems for the newborn, lower APGAR scores, and a higher risk of additional surgeries.  A lot of women say it's more difficult to bond with their baby after having a c-section as opposed to a vaginal birth.  It sounds to me like you had trauma before your first birth to make you want to go the route of surgery even before you've experienced birth.  Or maybe you had heard one too many times how "excruciating" it is, so you were terrified of it before it even began.  I'm all for informed choice as well, but it sounds like you have psychological issues that pushed you towards the decision you made--issues that are very possible to work through.  I'm sorry if that sounds condescending, I really don't mean it to, it's just from reading your story I got a strong feeling of terror from your words, terror that was there even before you became pregnant the first time.  If it was the environment that was traumatizing, home births are much more gentle and you can find a more hands-off type of midwife to be present.  I have a feeling, though, that that's not important--for you, it's the whole experience of labor and birth that you're terrified of, which, if you see opting for major surgery as being a good solution then so be it.

 

For whatever reason (which, IMO, is not really our business), the OP stated, from what I understand, prior to her even getting pregnant, that she wanted an elective-c-section. We don't know the reasons, and it's not really for us to know. What happened went completely *against* what she stated her wishes were. Maybe a c-section is intended for medical reasons, maybe there are different (probably greater) risks involved with a c-section that wouldn't necessarily be present with a vaginal birth. Be that the case, the OP seems to have researched, studied, and decided that what she wanted/needed was a c-section. And subsequently, the c-section she had planned did not happen. That can be traumatic. The same as if you plan for a vaginal birth, a home birth, water birth, whatever, and your plans, for whatever reason don't come to fruition. If something happens, and birth doesn't go the way you want it to, however you want it to, it can be traumatic.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveandgarbage View Post

It's really not up to anyone else but the person who has experienced trauma to decide what is and what is not traumatizing to them.

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

Quote:
I've experienced sexual trauma, which has made birth challenging for me in different ways.  I know how hard it can be to work through trauma, but I don't think that gives people a carte blanche to do whatever they can to avoid having to feel it.  If I let the trauma I experienced dictate my choices then I would never let anyone touch me below the waist, which I'm sure you can imagine is sub-optimal for various reasons.  Also, it sounds like it wasn't birth trauma that made her want a c-section; she felt this way before she gave birth the first time.  I know she didn't post her story to create a discussion about what she should have done, but I couldn't pass by without saying anything.  If this forum is intended for polite convo only then I apologize; hopefully it's okay to argue against what's said.

 

 

Just because some people can work through the trauma, doesn't mean everyone can. And again, who knows what the reason was. The OP, and that's who really matters. I think it is her body, her birth, and while it may not be a decision that many people, myself included, especially on this specific website, would agree with, it was *her* decision. She did what she needed to do for herself. The same that anyone here would do, I think.

post #25 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcneal View Post

Just because some people can work through the trauma, doesn't mean everyone can. And again, who knows what the reason was. The OP, and that's who really matters. I think it is her body, her birth, and while it may not be a decision that many people, myself included, especially on this specific website, would agree with, it was *her* decision. She did what she needed to do for herself. The same that anyone here would do, I think.

 

I get your reasoning and other people's reasoning on this thread.  I simply was bringing up the fact that trauma CAN be worked through, it's not some mystical thing that is impossible to accomplish.  No, I don't know for *certain* the reason for her trauma, but the fact that she was afraid of birth BEFORE she's ever experienced it is a sign that it has a psychological foundation.  It sounds like what she needed was a psychiatrist or therapist, not a surgeon.  If I went to a doctor for a problem I believed could only be fixed medically and, as it turns out, it probably could have been helped greatly with psychotherapy then I would feel cheated and angry.  This is why I gave my advice.

 

Also, what's our philosophy on this forum?  To support women by helping them see birth is nothing to be afraid of or to take the completely hands-off approach with "her body, her birth"?  I thought it was the former but maybe I'm mistaken headscratch.gif

 

Lastly, I agree with those who say how traumatizing it can be to not have the birth we very much wanted and planned for.  I'm not arguing against that at all.  My only issue is the birth she had planned may not have been what she had still wanted if she had gotten the help she needed.  In the long run, that is more problematic than simply getting what she, or any of us, believes is best.  To share something personal, I'd like to say that I had a UC with my daughter--this is what I wanted, planned for and believed was best for me and my baby.  As it turns out, it did go smoothly, was a beautiful experience, I have no regrets with that aspect.  What I do regret, though, is my reasoning for wanting one.  I mentioned earlier that I have experienced sexual trauma.  After I had my daughter, I did a lot of soul searching and realized that I didn't want to be touched or watched while in labor because of the trauma I experienced.  This made me profoundly biased towards choosing a UC.  Thus, it has made me wonder if I would have chosen a different scenario for birth if I had worked through my trauma.  My stance on that as of now is, yes, I would have had a midwife.  


Edited by Linnaea - 11/11/12 at 10:46pm
post #26 of 74
Thread Starter 
To speak for myself - prior to my first birth I knew the relative risks of vaginal birth and cesarean birth and preferred that of cesarean. For the record, prior to the first birth, I had worked with vital statistics data and knew that birth was risky. Prior to the first birth I baby sat a kid with cerebral palsy. Prior to the first birth I grew up with an uncle who was profoundly injured by forceps during his birth. Birth goes fine in the vast majority of cases but in those where it doesn't it really sucks to be that 1/1000 - I was and am wholeheartedly willing to trade a greatly reduced risk of lifelong profound disability of my child for an increased risk of transitory respiratory problems. Never mind all of the other reasons I had for preferring cesarean - including a desire to minimize the risk of damage to my pelvic floor and the risk of damage to my perineum. I had an informed refusal of vaginal birth and was forced to have one -it was traumatic, as traumatic as it would be for a woman to be forced to have a cesarean without there being a medical need for one.

Women do not need psychotherapy because they elect to birth by cesarean - if they are choosing to do so with an awareness of the relative risks and benefits of the two delivery modes.

Further, pregnancy and birth are conditions which often benefit from medical intervention, intervention exists and some women derive great benefits from being able to choose to use it. Are you advocating that because birth is natural (kidney stones are natural, heart disease is natural, cancer is natural) - that women should not have access to medical care of their choosing? Further, patients are entitled to know what their treatment options are, and what the alternatives are - it is reprehensible that a health care provider would violate a patients right to decide what is done with their body .

It was not a lovely birth - as 'lovely birth' is very much so in the eyes of the 'birther' and the only thing 'lovely' about it was that I thankfully got a healthy little girl. It is people who are unable to see that empowerment doesn't come from specific choices (birthing naturally) but from the ability to make those choices in the first place.
post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwaitingJuno View Post

To speak for myself - prior to my first birth I knew the relative risks of vaginal birth and cesarean birth and preferred that of cesarean. For the record, prior to the first birth, I had worked with vital statistics data and knew that birth was risky. Prior to the first birth I baby sat a kid with cerebral palsy. Prior to the first birth I grew up with an uncle who was profoundly injured by forceps during his birth. Birth goes fine in the vast majority of cases but in those where it doesn't it really sucks to be that 1/1000 - I was and am wholeheartedly willing to trade a greatly reduced risk of lifelong profound disability of my child for an increased risk of transitory respiratory problems. Never mind all of the other reasons I had for preferring cesarean - including a desire to minimize the risk of damage to my pelvic floor and the risk of damage to my perineum. I had an informed refusal of vaginal birth and was forced to have one -it was traumatic, as traumatic as it would be for a woman to be forced to have a cesarean without there being a medical need for one.
Women do not need psychotherapy because they elect to birth by cesarean - if they are choosing to do so with an awareness of the relative risks and benefits of the two delivery modes.
Further, pregnancy and birth are conditions which often benefit from medical intervention, intervention exists and some women derive great benefits from being able to choose to use it. Are you advocating that because birth is natural (kidney stones are natural, heart disease is natural, cancer is natural) - that women should not have access to medical care of their choosing? Further, patients are entitled to know what their treatment options are, and what the alternatives are - it is reprehensible that a health care provider would violate a patients right to decide what is done with their body .
It was not a lovely birth - as 'lovely birth' is very much so in the eyes of the 'birther' and the only thing 'lovely' about it was that I thankfully got a healthy little girl. It is people who are unable to see that empowerment doesn't come from specific choices (birthing naturally) but from the ability to make those choices in the first place.

 

I wonder if you've read this: http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10206.  Also, it really sucks for the mother and/or baby to experience one of the many complications that could result from a c-section.  Here's a reasonably concise list: http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10166.  So asthma isn't a lifelong profound disability (I know people with asthma--it's a horrible condition to have to live with)?  Or the higher risk of death for the mother?  How about the higher risks of death, pre-maturity, malformation and central nervous system injury for any babies you have after having a c-section?  

 

So you chose to have a c-section mainly because of what you've seen and read as being possible outcomes from delivering vaginally?  Do you see how this decision was based on fear, not simply an "informed" choice?  You were afraid of what possibly could happen if you let your body do what it would have done ordinarily, so you chose something to prevent that.  Also, If vaginal birth was really that inferior to c-sections then there would definitely be more women opting for them.  Instead, we have many women who hope for and have VBACs.  You decided to go against the grain and choose something most women wouldn't and you don't see that as a cause for concern on a psychological level?  It sounds to me like your uncle and the child with cerebral palsy greatly influenced your decision on a subconscious level.  

 

From the studies I've read and the people I've talked to, c-section is typically much more risky and inherently dangerous than vaginal birth.  It seems odd to me that anyone would opt for that, especially if they've done their research.  

 

I'm advocating that birth/pregnancy isn't a medical problem.  If someone were to seek medical attention for a normal birth then they're probably being excessive, which might cause problems.  Kidney stones and cancer require medical attention, normal birth does not.  When you treat birth as if it's a problem then I can see why you'd seek medical help.  


Edited by Linnaea - 11/11/12 at 11:56pm
post #28 of 74

My 2 cents-worth.

1. "So you chose to have a c-section mainly because of what you've seen and read as being possible outcomes from delivering vaginally?"

From what I understand, awaitingjuno explored the possible outcomes and risks of BOTH methods of delivery. Nothing is certain - it's all risk and possibility, which means everyone needs to weigh it up as best as they can.  Some people tolerate pain better than others, some people find the presence of doctors stressful, some find it calming.  Everyone will weigh each risk differently depending on many factors - pain tolerance, comfort, personality and of course fear.  You have implied that awaitingjuno's assessment of risk was majorly flawed by her fears, but that's simply your subjective (and in my opinon, wrong) assessment of her.  There is nothing inherently irrational in her choice of risks just because they are different from yours or "the majority of women" (I'll get to that point in a minute).  Have you read her blog?  She is highly informed, intelligent and perfectly capable of making lucid, rational decisions.  

 

On a sidenote, it's actually your assessment of risk that sounds problematic to me.   You describe asthma, a risk associated with C-sections, as  a "lifelong profound disability"  on a par with cerebral palsy (the lifelong profound disability that awaitingjuno gave as a potential outcome of a natural birth)?!  I think you'll find that most people would consider cerebral palsy far worse than asthma!

 

 

2." You decided to go against the grain and choose something most women wouldn't and you don't see that as a cause for concern on a psychological level?"

This is actually a sign that someone is engaging their brain instead of following the masses like a sheep.  Progress comes about by people questioning things in every area of science, medicine etc. Going against the grain takes courage - it's not a psychological problem!

 

3. "I'm advocating that birth/pregnancy isn't a medical problem"

It depends - sometime it is.  Why do you think maternal death rates were so high before modern medicine? Many pregnancies and births can go wrong and medical intervention can save lives.  While it may be true that in some cases, medical intervention today is unecessary  and unwanted by the mother (and I'm by no means in favour of forcing anyone into any intervention), overall we'd have a lot more deaths if nature was left to run it course in all births.

post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post

If this forum is intended for polite convo only then I apologize; hopefully it's okay to argue against what's said.  

 

Personally, I prefer it when posts in the "Birth Stories" forum aren't greeted with "you did it wrong."

 

While Mothering.com does have a great many posters who are hoping to VBAC, it's not at all clear that those women are a majority in the world of pregnant women.  Some women genuinely love their c-sections.  It's a preference that's underrepresented here, where we agitated for years to get a forum for Cesearean birth, separate from birth trauma, but it's a fairly strong preference among those who have it.  Preferring to give birth surgically may be a result of a pre-existing phobia, but where such phobia exists, there are very few therapists with a track record in treating it.

 

Maternal request c-sections are controversial - if they were agreed to be either good or bad, there wouldn't be controversy.  There are doctors who absolutely won't do them, and doctors who are happy to schedule.  Personally, I support MRCS for philosophical reasons regarding the mother's bodily autonomy.  On a much less high-falutin note, I support congratulating new moms as (a) a sincere and polite response, and (b) a means of discouraging trolling on the birth forums. 

 

Childbirthconnection.org's writers are pretty sloppy about equating correlation with causation, and it astounds me that the only risk they list of vaginal birth for babies is "brachial plexis injury."  They seem to be pushing an agenda, and breezing over a ton of risks to do it.

post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah5772 View Post

On a sidenote, it's actually your assessment of risk that sounds problematic to me.   You describe asthma, a risk associated with C-sections, as  a "lifelong profound disability"  on a par with cerebral palsy (the lifelong profound disability that awaitingjuno gave as a potential outcome of a natural birth)?!  I think you'll find that most people would consider cerebral palsy far worse than asthma!

 

2." You decided to go against the grain and choose something most women wouldn't and you don't see that as a cause for concern on a psychological level?"

This is actually a sign that someone is engaging their brain instead of following the masses like a sheep.  Progress comes about by people questioning things in every area of science, medicine etc. Going against the grain takes courage - it's not a psychological problem!

 

I don't think you should be so quick to make that conclusion.  My mother has an average case of asthma (not severe but not mild, either) and when it flares up, it's the most terrifying, gut-wrenching, horribly out-of-control experience that she has the misfortune of enduring.  She doesn't know if she's going to live or die because every second that passes is another second with very little oxygen.  If she doesn't have her inhaler or an ER nearby she really can die.  She also lives in fear of having an attack every day of her life.  So please don't minimize asthma or say that cerebral palsy is inherently worse.

 

The feminist movement has made "going against the grain" seem courageous and intelligent, but that's not always the case.  When we ignore what other women do but ALSO look to statistics and such to make our choices, we're both rejecting society and using society for our perceived benefit.  In this woman's case, she doesn't look at the fact that most women do not prefer c-sections and a lot of those who have them want to have VBACs for their next children.  She doesn't use that as a factor in her decision, but she DOES look at statistics and risk factors which are compiled completely from THESE VERY WOMEN.  Now if that's not a head-scratcher I don't know what is.  If what other women do truly does not matter then she shouldn't need to look at what's happened to them and their children to make her choices.  Clearly there is a direct connection there, which makes me conclude that she sees what the majority is doing as not the safest approach.  I would feel offended by this if she didn't list reasons that show she has a strong fear of childbirth, which you seem to have glossed over.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post

 

Personally, I prefer it when posts in the "Birth Stories" forum aren't greeted with "you did it wrong."

 

While Mothering.com does have a great many posters who are hoping to VBAC, it's not at all clear that those women are a majority in the world of pregnant women.  Some women genuinely love their c-sections.  It's a preference that's underrepresented here, where we agitated for years to get a forum for Cesearean birth, separate from birth trauma, but it's a fairly strong preference among those who have it.  Preferring to give birth surgically may be a result of a pre-existing phobia, but where such phobia exists, there are very few therapists with a track record in treating it.

 

Maternal request c-sections are controversial - if they were agreed to be either good or bad, there wouldn't be controversy.  There are doctors who absolutely won't do them, and doctors who are happy to schedule.  Personally, I support MRCS for philosophical reasons regarding the mother's bodily autonomy.  On a much less high-falutin note, I support congratulating new moms as (a) a sincere and polite response, and (b) a means of discouraging trolling on the birth forums. 

 

Childbirthconnection.org's writers are pretty sloppy about equating correlation with causation, and it astounds me that the only risk they list of vaginal birth for babies is "brachial plexis injury."  They seem to be pushing an agenda, and breezing over a ton of risks to do it.

 

I prefer it when posts aren't greeted like that, too, but I also prefer to read posts that are in line with AP-style parenting (which is what I thought this forum was for but maybe I'm mistaken?).  

 

I used to frequent mainstream forums as well, which has taught me that most women do not prefer c-sections.  A lot of women who've had c-sections end up getting repeat c-sections often because their doctors tell them they can't have a vaginal birth.  

 

I think you're mistaken about why the forum for c-sections (why do people try to make it sound better than it is with wanting to use the word "cesarean" instead?) is wanted and needed.  While I'm sure there are some women who prefer them, from what I understood about the forum (I read the thread awhile back where people were listing the reasons why they wanted it) they mainly wanted support for the fact that they've already had them.  Thus, they want a safe place to be able to talk about what's happened to them freely.  Some of these women have repeat c-sections, some don't.  Some feel they have no other choice but to have repeat c-sections, others have done their homework.  But the core of connection is the fact that they all wanted to be able to discuss their experience(s) of c-sections.  

 

There are few therapists with a track record of treating birth phobia?  While you're probably right, there are many therapists who are highly qualified to treat phobias in general, no matter what the type, since there are similarities and core characteristics of all phobias that some therapists learn.

 

I understand your philosophical reasons for supporting a mother's bodily autonomy.  However, if doctors allowed people to request whatever medical procedure they want simply because it's their body then I'm sure you can imagine what sorts of problems can arise out of that.

 

I give sincere and polite responses to people I don't perceive as trolls.  Given the fact that this is her only post and it goes against AP-style parenting, I'm thinking she probably has a hidden agenda for posting her story here which I do not appreciate.

 

Childbirthconnection.org is definitely not perfect, I have issues with it myself.  I was simply giving some basic info on the risks of c-sections and also how a woman can prevent pelvic floor dysfunction when giving birth vaginally.  


Edited by Linnaea - 11/12/12 at 2:30pm
post #31 of 74
Thread Starter 

I'm sorry if I posted in the wrong category - the category said 'birth stories' - and I wanted to share mine.  I know its hard not to be judgemental of the choices people make, especially when those choices are different than the choices you may make personally.  I genuinely appreciate the supportive nature of most of the replies.  

 

I am super happy with my baby and his birth experience - and while some may think that a woman should not be able to access a cesarean "just because she wants it", I would hope that they might stop to think about what they are really saying about a woman's right to make medical decisions for herself and to be entitled to make such decisions freely and without judgement provided they have done so in the context of informed consent.  I do not care what condition a patient has, they should most definitely have a right to know about their treatment options and the alternatives and to select the option that best meets their own individual needs.  Many women here access home birth "just because she wants it" - and provided that woman has made that choice in the context of informed consent - I most certainly do not have a problem with it, even though it is not a choice that I would make.

 

I'm sorry if I was under the mistaken belief that a woman did not need to make all of the same choices as all of the other women here to be considered 'not a troll' - I kind of thought that as long as I wasn't denigrating the choices of others, that my story had just as much merit to it as all the other stories here.  But I guess some here believe in 'lesser births' and 'greater births' and that the mode of exit matters more than the fact that the woman made a conscious decision about the birth, that she was happy with the outcome and that she and her child were healthy as a result.  

 

I also guess that because I would choose cesarean, even though I practice other aspects of AP (those that work for us) that this an all or nothing kind of place and that I'm less than welcome here by some of the members....

 

I wish those here the best - and hope that they are enabled and supported to make the birth decisions and mothering decisions that best meet their own needs and those of their children and I hope that your choices are not plagued by either misinformation, fear or misplaced judgement. 

post #32 of 74

Why are you speaking about me as if I'm in some category of women posting in this thread?  I'm the only one who has spoken against your story, but you are being elusive and non-direct for whatever reason.  Sort of like how you use the statistics of birthing women and their babies to your own discretion, but don't look to what they choose as being a deciding factor in your choices?  Does it feel safe to treat people like objects?

 

You actually are denigrating the choices of others--by stating that after having done your research, c-sections seem safer overall than vaginal births.  This research, once again, gathered from the statistics of women like ourselves and children like the ones we have.  Thus, you have used us and our children to state your claim of surgical birth being superior to vaginal, all the while acting as if you have come to the conclusion all on your own and it doesn't represent anyone else but yourself.  Do you see how this is offensive?

 

I don't see it as an "all or nothing" kind of place, but when something goes so far outside the AP lifestyle it raises red flags, at least for me.  For example, occasionally there's someone who posts about spanking or other forms of physical discipline that's obviously not supported by this forum.  If they were to say, "It works for us and we practice other aspects of AP so why are we being excluded?" they wouldn't be taken seriously and for good reason, imo.  In your case, preferring a c-section over a vaginal birth simply due to fear and your analysis of statistics is not justification for whatever AP practices you do happen to practice.  It seems that the only real justification people here are trying to use for including maternal request c-sections in the AP lifestyle is for the sake of the mother's bodily autonomy and/or having "informed consent".  This doesn't seem to me to be in line with AP at all but I guess it's acceptable to define things as we please, right?  

 

Also, your headline seems to have been designed to elicit a response: it has a snarky, judgmental tone to it, probably because you knew this wasn't really the right place to post your story.

post #33 of 74
Thread Starter 
Linea - you have issues. I sincerely hope you can come to a place where people making different choices than your own is not threatening. I am not threatened by your choices, so why are you so threatened by mine? Further, using statistics to guide an individual choice is not a sociopathic activity - do you have a fear of science and math?. I assume that other individuals have made the choices that best met their needs and that is a good thing.
post #34 of 74

C-section is safer for the baby like it or not. 

There can be increase in morbidity but the mortality goes down. 

 

 

No one forces anyone to have c-section for the heck of it...not one should be forced to have vaginal birth either

post #35 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AwaitingJuno View Post

Linea - you have issues. I sincerely hope you can come to a place where people making different choices than your own is not threatening. I am not threatened by your choices, so why are you so threatened by mine? Further, using statistics to guide an individual choice is not a sociopathic activity - do you have a fear of science and math?. I assume that other individuals have made the choices that best met their needs and that is a good thing.

 

You didn't read what I wrote, but thank you for acknowledging me this time and not lumping me in some category.  It's perfectly okay to look at statistics and use that knowledge to help us make choices.  It's not okay to act like the choices you make bear no reflection on the people you used as statistics, and, ON TOP OF THAT, claim that your choices are not a judgment on what those same people have chosen.  Do you see how that's illogical and offensive?  You are claiming that c-sections are safer, are you not?  If they are only safer for YOU then you wouldn't need to look to others to make that choice, now would you?  You can try to disconnect the links all you want to, but that's just called conscious ignorance.  

post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

C-section is safer for the baby like it or not. 

There can be increase in morbidity but the mortality goes down. 

 

 

No one forces anyone to have c-section for the heck of it...not one should be forced to have vaginal birth either

 

It's safer for the baby to have a dead mother?  It's safer for the baby to have an increased likelihood for breathing difficulties, including asthma?  These are just a few of the risks.  To claim that c-section is safer simply because it decreases infant mortality is not looking at the bigger picture and all the details included therein.  

post #37 of 74
Quote:

Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post

 

You actually are denigrating the choices of others--by stating that after having done your research, c-sections seem safer overall than vaginal births.

 

No, she's not. She's discussing her decision, based on her own personal risk/benefit analysis. When someone is deciding what's safest for them, they're factoring in personal aspects, no matter how objective their research may be. For example, for me, the sure knowledge that I had to have a needle in my spine to have a c-section was a massive concern, and also fit firmly into the "extra risks of c-section" column. For someone who planned to have an epidural for a vaginal birth, anyway, there's no extra risk, because she'd be getting that needle, either way.

With respect to birth choices, "safest" isn't an absolute, and someone deciding that a scheduled c-section is safer than a vaginal birth isn't saying that it's safer for everyone. We're all different.

post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post


Some of these women have repeat c-sections, some don't.  Some feel they have no other choice but to have repeat c-sections, others have done their homework. 

 

Are you actually trying to be as offensive as you can be, or is it some kind of natural gift? There are plenty of women who have done their homework, and still feel that they have no choice but to have repeat c-sections, or that a repeat is the best choice for both them and their baby, in their own specific circumstances (whatever those may be). This quote of yours just comes across as elitist bs - "there are women who have the repeat and then there are the intelligent ones". What tripe.

post #39 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnaea View Post

You didn't read what I wrote, but thank you for acknowledging me this time and not lumping me in some category.  It's perfectly okay to look at statistics and use that knowledge to help us make choices.  It's not okay to act like the choices you make bear no reflection on the people you used as statistics, and, ON TOP OF THAT, claim that your choices are not a judgment on what those same people have chosen.  Do you see how that's illogical and offensive?  You are claiming that c-sections are safer, are you not?  If they are only safer for YOU then you wouldn't need to look to others to make that choice, now would you?  You can try to disconnect the links all you want to, but that's just called conscious ignorance.  

Seriously, what are you even talking about here? Are you saying every time one person chooses something different than another, they are making a judgment on them?
post #40 of 74
Thread Starter 

Thank-you Storm Bride.

 

Linnea - you are coming across as really, really offensive.  In fact you are coming across as exactly the kind of AP/Natural parent that gives the movement a bad name - the sort that cannot fathom that people might make different choices without somehow offending the choices you yourself have made, the sort that needs to make others feel bad about the choices that they have made in order to feel good about their own choices, the sort that puts specific choices as being some kind of "gold standard" of parenting without allowing for the nuances that individual lives often have.  You are exactly the kind of woman I avoided during my pregnancy because associating with women like you would cause me to have flashbacks to my first delivery and severe anxiety that my next delivery would wind up being a repeat.  You are exactly the kind of person that would remind me that some health care provider might assert their view of a "good birth" and disregard my view of a "good birth".  

 

Do not miss the forest for the trees.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Birth Stories
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › Birth Stories › Sometimes birth satisfaction is spelt c-e-s-a-r-e-a-n