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Good vibes!

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
There's a mom and dad I've known for a while. Actually, I've known the dad for longer, but oh well. Anyway, their first baby was a girl and I was worried like crazy that I'd have to bring the subject up. (I'm almost positive the dad is circumcised, BTW.)

Before we knew the baby was a girl, I casually asked his brother "do you think they'll chop it if it's a boy" and the brother said "I don't really want to know about that" or something along those lines. Anyway, the baby was a girl, and the whole situation was averted.

Several months ago, we were generally chatting about babies and that convo sort of went as follows. I obviously deleted names and changed the words a bit to try to hide privacy.

Me: I know what I'm not on the fence about
Her: ?
Me: the baby boy operation.
Her: ah yes, not my realm of expertise. where do you stand?
Me: against it for babies. If an adult wants it, that's fine.
Her: yeah, its all weird...i would let my husband decide

Me: Please look into it when you have lots of time to decide. here's what I see about it... Based on videos, it seems ultra-painful... there really AREN'T health benefits... 100% cosmetic ... better to let your son make his own decision. it started to be common based on .. when the lies were exposed, they had to change the "reason" TO do it.. However, the rate is currently dropping to 50% if not lower than that now.

Her: that's good. Some folks probably realized it was kind of crazy to begin with. I don't really understand why it was ever done to begin with, but I'll cross that bridge once I get to it.

Me: to be honest... i think circumcising in your state is still the "in" decision. just out of curiosity... when you were dating, was a boyfriend's foreskin gross?

Her: I really didn't notice, but it probably wouldn't have been an issue if I realized a boyfriend had one.

Me: I think you and most females share a common viewpoint there. There are a few stuck-up about it, but I think most are neutral or don't care
so honestly, if you ever have a son... let him grow up complete..as they say

Her: yeah well, send the stuck up girls packing, no use in keeping them around.

Me: yeah..some girls..*mocks stuck-up females who insist on having a circumcised boyfriend*: this is a subject i usually try to hide my opinions on... it can be super controversial and I'm not a controversial person.

besides... you wouldn't cut a girl's parts... why cut a boy's?

Me (actually, it's illegal in the USA, although other countries do it.)

Her: yeah, crazy africans
Me:: yeah, it's actually called female genital mutilation in the USA ... what about male genital mutilation?? huh??
Her: but cutting a girl's parts is pretty debilitating and life threatening
Me agreed
Me: I bet you didn't realize girl-parts and boy-parts start out 100% the same.
Her:: I really don't like the FGM topic. Can we move on?
Me: No problem. I just think it's interesting that you didn't notice any boyfriend status.


(She did realize that boy and girl parts start out the same. I'll give her slack on the bold part.)



Flash-forward to a few weeks ago:

Anyway, they just announced their second child due in the late spring, and I gave the mom a whole bunch of sites like wholenetwork, noharmm, and nocirc. I REALLY wanted to give her MGMBill, but they live in a high-circ state and that site seems a bit more "advanced" for them, if you know what I mean.

So, the mom and I were chatting on IM a few days ago, and here's the basic idea of the convo. Note that the baby is a surprise until the birth, so when she says "I will want to know" that refers to the baby's gender.



Me: I'd check out the info @ nocirc, noharmm.org and TheWholeNetwork

Her: After 9 months, I will want to know! I will have to have that convo with husband if it's a boy, but thanks for the info. It will be an informed decision if I have any say.

Me: I agree... it takes two people to make decisions regarding their kids and I think you know where I stand. but it's something to know now before you get to that 8th month "baby is almost here" craziness. I mean...assuming you don't circ, you can play the "his body his choice" card, which works for parents AND kid

Her: I don't think we'll put the decision off until the 8th or 9th month.


Anyway, I'm feeling REALLY pumped about that. It sounds like just a few minor obstacles of dad being circ and in a high-circ state, but I know they're really open-minded. If they were "leaning" towards circumcision, I have a feeling the convos would have probably gone quite differently, even if she didn't recognize those sites.
post #2 of 12

That's great! Good for you for working so hard to get the information to her. I still have a hard time bringing up the subject of circ with other moms, though I'm not the least bit shy about it once the topic comes up.... it just makes me feel flustered and angry and a whole swirl of things at once. It must make you feel good to have made that difference.

post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tammylsmith View Post

That's great! Good for you for working so hard to get the information to her. I still have a hard time bringing up the subject of circ with other moms, though I'm not the least bit shy about it once the topic comes up.... it just makes me feel flustered and angry and a whole swirl of things at once. It must make you feel good to have made that difference.

Yeah, I think cause it's so divisive. Someone who is anti-circ (as we know) can easily sever ties with someone who will, or did circ their kid. I'm a little nervous on the "informed decision" part that they'll make IF it's a boy, but if I can get them to watch a video, hopefully that'll be the decision-maker.

We'll see what happens.


I should ask her the "boyfriend" question again just to compare answers.

I also am finding out that in a sensitive subject like this, it can be a good thing to not tip your entire hand all at once. If I ask about what someone thinks of circumcision before I get to the "horror, blood, deaths, shock" stuff, that's better for both of us than if I go to the serious stuff first.
post #4 of 12
Thread Starter 

Update:

 

Baby is due in late spring/early summer. They're waiting to learn the sex until the baby is born. Mama hasn't brought the subject up yet, but will eventually. She used the words "weird" and "unnecessary"  when talking about circ with me today. She did say she didn't feel like an expert on the subject, which makes sense, since she doesn't have the body part.

 

She also said she may have to refer husband's questions to me.

 

 

This has certainly gone a lot easier than expected. joy.gif

post #5 of 12

Yay!  Great news!

 

There was a family member of mine that I thought was not going to circ.  I'd emailed her about stuff & in it asked what she'd found in researching circ.  She's said, "it's not necessary."  I let it drop at that thinking she was a smart woman & well, what else is there.  I'd seen her change a diaper & I think the boy was circ'd.  I'm thinking her husband may have pulled one of the many trump cards that men pull.  I regret not discussing it further with her.

 

All that to say, even if you're thinking she's good on it, try not to let it drop.  Sounds like you are following through/up/etc. on it, but just wanted to share my story in case you were thinking she's definitely not going to.

 

She & her baby are lucky to have you!
Sus

post #6 of 12

Glad that she's so receptive to the information and not just going along with standards presented.

 

When hubby and I had our discussion he said he would absolutely circ.  So, one day I found a video on youtube of a baby being circumcised.  Hubby was down the hall in another room, so I turned up the video and played it.  He came running into the room asking, "What are they doing to that baby???!!!"  I said, "Circumcising him."  "WHAT??  I thought it didn't hurt?  Didn't they numb him?"  "Yes, a local anesthetic."  "How can they DO that???  How could my MOM let them DO that to me???  And there's really no reason for that???  Our baby will NOT be circumcised!"

 

We had a girl this time, but at least now we're both on the same page for later. 

post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaKat405 View Post
When hubby and I had our discussion he said he would absolutely circ.  So, one day I found a video on youtube of a baby being circumcised.  Hubby was down the hall in another room, so I turned up the video and played it.  He came running into the room asking, "What are they doing to that baby???!!!"  I said, "Circumcising him."  "WHAT??  I thought it didn't hurt?  Didn't they numb him?"  "Yes, a local anesthetic."  "How can they DO that???  How could my MOM let them DO that to me???  And there's really no reason for that???  Our baby will NOT be circumcised!" 

 

What a great idea!  And the really vindictive part of me wants to play one the next time I see the SIL I mentioned above.  I wouldn't probably, but it's a nice thought.  Poor babies.

 

Sus

post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama24-7 View Post

Yay!  Great news!

 

There was a family member of mine that I thought was not going to circ.  I'd emailed her about stuff & in it asked what she'd found in researching circ.  She's said, "it's not necessary."  I let it drop at that thinking she was a smart woman & well, what else is there.  I'd seen her change a diaper & I think the boy was circ'd.  I'm thinking her husband may have pulled one of the many trump cards that men pull.  I regret not discussing it further with her.

 

All that to say, even if you're thinking she's good on it, try not to let it drop.  Sounds like you are following through/up/etc. on it, but just wanted to share my story in case you were thinking she's definitely not going to.

 

She & her baby are lucky to have you!
Sus

 

 

Yeah... I certainly do want to follow up and keep pressing, but I don't want to be forceful. I see no harm in the occasional "round-about" way of casually asking every couple months.

 

In a way, this is like what I would imagine coming out of the closet could be like. I've done some stuff anonymously online, and I know I've had one or two "fleeing conversations" about it, but never anything like this.

post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 

They seem like really forward-thinking people. They're preferring to use real terms instead of slang words for body parts with their other child, which is leading to some akward/funny conversations, as one would expect.

I didn't bring it up, but I did breath a sigh of relief and maybe a smile/thumbs up when I saw the mom breast-feed. :)

I casually sent her sibling a few anti-circ links, so I'm wondering what they did...one of their baby's parents is in the military, so that kind of scares me a bit, but since I barely know them, I didn't want to be too forceful.


Edited by bugmenot - 5/21/13 at 6:52pm
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 

Update:

 

The baby boy was born via c-section at a hospital last Wednesday and taken home on Saturday following a "standard three-day wait following a c-section." I put this in quotes because I'm taking the dad's word for it, as I know next to nothing about c-sections
 

They put a cloth diaper on him. I'm sure they'll breastfeed a lot.

 

I hope they didn't circ, but I'm quite nervous. I know I'll eventually find out somehow...I'm actually going to meet the baby in about a week and a half and I've got a sneaky feeling I'll find out somehow. It's like opening a present of "you owe $100" or a $100 check...you have to open, but you don't want to. Bad analogy perhaps, but oh well.

post #11 of 12

Good for you for opening their eyes, so to speak.  Let us know what you find out, and based on that, if you have any words of wisdom for future "intactivist" encounters.  I certainly agree with you about starting out gently, and not getting into the heavy "shocking" info right away.

post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakunangovi View Post

Good for you for opening their eyes, so to speak.  Let us know what you find out, and based on that, if you have any words of wisdom for future "intactivist" encounters.  I certainly agree with you about starting out gently, and not getting into the heavy "shocking" info right away.

 

Oh, absolutely. I think I said this before, but the last thing you want to do by presenting words like "torture", "mutilation" and "barbaric" to someone you're on good terms with and that you'll be in contact with for a long time. So what I did, as above, was give them the sites and present the very basic info like "there's been some recent discoveries that it's not necessary. Yes, it's still a popular decision, but..." then you say that he'll have friends who are and friends who aren't and debunk the locker room myth.

 

And speaking of the locker room myth, I don't understand that one... I can understand some 8 year old kid noticing an obvious difference with his friend and opening his yap, but 99% of come backs would involve something about "don't look at me you sicko!" Plus, it seems that people these days are more private about that stuff and they'll use towels or change in private stalls. Heck, a lot of locker rooms actually have stalls designed expressly for changing...as in, ones without toilets.

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