Some perspective on gifted programs (from an adult who was in them) - Page 3

[ollyoxenfree]

Journeymom, I have also found this thread frustrating. There are a quite a few disparate beliefs and attitudes that have been raised but I don't have the energy to address everything that I take issue with. KimbleJ, I agree with a fair amount in your OP. Does anyone disagree with the suggestion that social skills, self-regulation and executive function are necessary for success and happiness? I'm just not sure about some unwritten implications about gifted programs that I've read in this thread. While the final statement in the OP may be personally true, it rings false if offered as general evidence that gifted programs are unnecessary: 

Originally Posted by KimbleJ 

It’s in the regular classroom that I learned how to behave appropriately (even if a class was ‘boring’) and exhibit decorum in all situations; it’s where I learned how to engage with others, how to listen, how to gauge what I should and shouldn’t say, and how to find a commonality with peers. It’s in the classroom that I learned to understand that people come from all walks of life. That type of learning doesn’t require an I.Q. test and special funding… that type of learning is integral to lifelong success.

IME, gifted classrooms offer myriad opportunities to engage with others, listen, gauge what one should and shouldn't say and find commonality with peers. Gifted students aren't sitting in the classroom working in isolation from each other without any interaction. Giftedness is not limited to a socioeconomic class or race. Thus, IME, gifted programs are often provide some of the most diverse classrooms in a school district because the students are pulled from much larger catchment areas than a neighbourhood school. Any good classroom experience will include expectations of appropriate behaviour and develop the ability to listen to others' ideas and consider different perspectives. This type of learning is not exclusive to one kind of program or school and it is not impossible or even difficult to achieve in a gifted class but your statement suggests otherwise. 

For "gifted credentials", I could cite all the various forms of differentiation and gifted programs that I've experienced, either personally, through my children or family members. My children have attended gifted and regular programs in several different school districts. Does it really need to be said that some students, whether gifted and learning disabled and neurotypical, will do well in regular programs and others will do well in special interest or alternative programs? The gifted programs are often, although not always, a lifeline for many students who have not been thriving in regular classrooms for a variety of reasons. 

Parents have a vested interest in finding suitable educational programs for their children. In fact, isn't it a biological imperative and part of our evolution to seek out healthy learning environments for our children and to remain involved in their development into mature adults? Some parents become too involved and too anxious, yes. That doesn't mean the inclination to build a solid educational foundation for a child is wrong or misplaced.  

[captain optimism]

I don't think every parent feels sufficiently empowered to advocate for her child in these situations. That's why, in some school systems, gifted programs can be profoundly segregated by race and class, as in Eavesdrop's experience. Also, in some school systems, the gifted program just becomes an honors track--and that's not what gifted elementary schoolers need. This biological imperative idea is compelling but probably not an accurate description of how all parents interact with schools. 

I get that the OP wants to reassure her sister (and parents like me, who are in a similar position!) that a gifted child can thrive with or without gifted programming. Some obviously can and some cannot, which is why her sister is stressing out. Here! Think fast! The decision you make now may affect your child for the rest of her life--but no pressure! 

It seems like there is so much variation on both the individual needs of students and in the nature of what schools offer that it's not really possible to dismiss this as something that will work out as long as the parents provide unconditional love. I can provide unconditional love, but I suck at higher mathematics, so someone else is going to have to provide that, and even, to help me figure out when it's appropriate to provide that. 

[KimbleJ]

@ollyoxenfree-- Definitely understand what you mean. Good points.

You all have offered perspectives that have merit.  And you're right--blanket statements shouldn't be made willy-nilly. I didn't include in my original post anything about twice-exceptional children, and I agree that they definitely require specific environments. I think this forum has given rise to a few questions (some that I didn't know I had)--Whether any of you feel like you benefited from your programs, how much you think they're worth for children, and how to discern which children will not be okay without being apart of one. (Of course, these are questions for other threads and other days..).

I think, too, some of the emotion behind what I said would've been tempered if I had said from the get-go the reasons behind it. But I didn't want to mention my sister-in-law or my niece and nephew in an online forum (even if anonymously) without talking to her first. But the sentiment I was trying to convey was--if you're one of the many whose school districts are cutting gifted programs, or if your bright child just barely missed the cutoff (that's what happened with my brother--very upsetting for him), I was trying to say, "Don't despair!"

Anyway, thank you all for your input. Some of you have definitely opened my eyes, and I appreciate it. Thanks.

[pek64]

As far as making decisions that effect the rest of your child's life, all parents do that every day, sometimes in big ways, and sometimes in small ways. If you're going to focus on that, you may make poor decisions, or rely on someone else to make the decision for you. I'm not saying any of you have, just saying it's possible. So it's best to put aside the fear of making the 'wrong' choice. You never know what silver lining that cloud ('wrong' choice) might hold.

I remember a story I heard as a child. It was about a very gifted boy. He was the son of a college professor. His father knew how much potential this boy had, and made sure he was 'properly challenged'. The boy graduated high school very young, had a college degree while his peers were still in regular school, and got his PhD at sixteen. He had been top of his class, all along the way. His father was very proud, and invited relatives, friends and colleagues to the graduation ceremony, where his son was delivering a speech. A strange thing happened as the 16 year old looked out at the audience. He began to giggle. He couldn't stop! Eventually, someone came onto the stage and walked him off. All that potential! All that preparation! He ended up working at a convenience store! He granted one interview, many years after the 'breakdown', and said all he wanted was a normal life!

[heatherdeg]

pek64, you are violating the forum guidelines by consistently posting in a manner that is unsupportive and introducing debate and criticism about differences in parenting gifted children.  

Although part were already posted by another mod, the full forum guidelines are here:  http://www.mothering.com/community/a/parenting-the-gifted-child-forum-guidelines

Please note this particular piece from the guidelines:

Quote:

We will actively discourage an individual from solely posting for the purpose of disagreement, with no interest in practicing the belief or view in discussion, or who posts only to prove a gifted concept or a belief to be wrong, misguided or not based on fact.

If you are going to continue posting in the gifted forum, please do so within the forum guidelines.

[contactmaya]

 nak pek64, theres a world of difference in providing an education for a gifted child that meets their needs, and one that is provided despite their needs. Any child who has a nervous breakdown had some of their needs ignored.  whats  wrong with giggling anyway?  its actually a fairly rational response to the situation. giggling is a truly wonderful antidote to stress. i myself have been known to break out into unstoppable fits of giggles  in response to stress.

while  the conversation has been interesting, a clear definition of what constitutes success has never been offered. Does it really matter that your example works in a convenience store? he may be doing something amazing in his spare time.  maybe he feels he has nothing to prove.

when it comes to my childrens education, what matters to me is that they are happy and fulfilled 'now'. i dont have a view to how they will turn out. there are too many variables. what if they dont place any value on money, so they turn out to be poor? people rank values differently. 

i practise attachment parenting for the same reason....

[nerdmomma6885]

OK, I need to add to whatsnextmom- she's right, telling your child early on that she's gifted is a huge help, because no one told me about being gifted until seventh grade, and my school HAD a gifted program, I just wasn't in it. so all these years i wasted it being jealous that these kids were so much smarter than me and then i realized that with an IQ of 131, i was actually as smart as they were. Scary moment of epiphany- and also i got mad at my parents for awhile about not telling me. Looking back, I don't regret my education, and I was properly challenged- but without my parents knowing about it. (My parents didn't want me to be in with them because they thought that because I had previous learning problems, it would be too difficult. Well, by fifth grade, they basically faded! And I became bored in some of my classes.) I never did get enrolled in the gifted program, but eventually I attended a special program in high school which helped a lot.

[nerdmomma6885]

OOPS! Sorry- didn't see that there was 3 pages on here already. Please ignore.