School flu vax clinic--should I keep my kids home?

[kln75a]

Hello, hope this is the right forum to post this in...

My kids' charter school is offering a flu vax clinic this Friday.  Kids may receive either the flu shot or the FluMist nasal spray (parent's choice).  My boys, ages 11 and 9 are not vaxed and we don't do flu shots.  

Do you think I should keep them home?  I know that the FluMist is a live virus (supposedly 'weakened') and that there is at least a possibility of catching the flu from someone who has had it.  Even our fairly pro-vax doctor wouldn't rule it out, although she said it's very unlikely unless they have a weakened immune system.  My thought is that even with a weakened live virus, they're being exposed to multiple kids who have just had the spray, all day, in a closed space.  

The school nurse of course says she's never heard of anyone catching it from the FluMist, it's not contagious, blah, blah, blah.

Am I overreacting to keep them home?

[Mirzam]

I would keep mine home, not because I was concerned that they would catch the flu from a recently flumisted kid, but because I would not want my child/ren vaxed "by mistake". Here is a case where the school vaccinated against the parent's wishes and they case against the school board was dismissed.

http://experimentalvaccines.blogspot.com/2012/11/school-vaccinates-child-against-parents.html?spref=tw

[rnra]

In the link posted above, it says that the school clinic vaccinated the child even though the mother told them not to.  Obviously, we don't know all the details there.  It sounds like there could have been some miscommunication between mother and clinic, perhaps a refusal form wasn't signed, and the age of the child isn't mentioned.

In your case, I would send them.  The kids are 9 and 11--they are old enough to remind the staff that their mother refused the vaccines.  The clinic would probably need a signed consent in order to vaccinate.  I would sign a refusal form (if one is offered). I would also write a letter, sign it, and send it with my kids.  I'd tell the kids that they were not to get shots that day, and that if anyone gives them grief about it they should hand that person the letter and return to their desk.  

I wouldn't send a 3 year old, but I'd have no issue sending a 9 and 11 year old.

[Taximom5]

I would keep them home, and like Mirzam, not because of fear that they'd catch the flu, but because of fear that they would end up being vaccinated.

If you're going to be afraid of their catching the flu from someone who has received FluMist, you have to avoid those people for 3 WEEKS, as that's how long they might shed live virus.  And let's face it, if you go to the movies, to the grocery store, to anywhere where you touch door handles, grocery carts, shopping baskets, drinking fountains, elevator buttons, etc., you are likely going to be exposed to flu virus and all kinds of other germs.

The issue isn't whether or not you are exposed to them, but whether or not your immune system is functional enough to handle them with a minimum of symptoms.

My second child was vaccinated in the hospital, without my consent, and against my specific, doctor-signed, written instructions.  I see no reason to expect a better outcome at a school vaccine clinic.

I'm afraid that there are some misinformed but well-meaning health professionals who believe that they would be doing your child a service by vaccinating him, even if it's against your wishes. And remember, if you are in California, they don't need your consent, or even to NOTIFY you, to give any child 12 or older a vaccine for Hepatitis B or HPV (Gardasil).  This means that they can vaccinate non-verbal children without even the child's consent.

The propaganda from the pharmaceutical companies is extremely effective; imagine how indoctrinated you might be if your entire training and professional career was guided by the pharmaceutical industry.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by rnra 

I wouldn't send a 3 year old, but I'd have no issue sending a 9 and 11 year old.

Some health care workers, who are very well-meaning but misinformed, have tried to convince children that they SHOULD be vaccinated.  Some of the Gardasil injury reports state that the girls in question were subjected to intense pressuring by the school nurses.

I don't think it's worth the risk.  According to the 8th Circuit Court, you CAN'T sue the school or the nurse for administering an invasive procedure without parental consent, and if your child has a severe reaction, you can't undo that.

[nia82]

Flumist does shed at a rate of 2-3% as by their own admission (package inserts). I would keep my kid home for the reason that they will try to vaccinate against your wishes. It has happened so often and all over it's a real risk. After vaccine day I would send my kids back, boosted with lots of vitamin D3, C, good fish oil and strict orders on perfect hand washing routines (often) and to stay away from sickly kids at school. It sheds the most the first few days and about 1/3 in our experience of people who get it get such severe side effects they'll stay home (headaches, stuffy noses, flu-like symptoms).

[LiLStar]

I remember seeing a post here a few years ago.. I don't remember who, and I've tried to look up the thread and haven't been able to find it (maybe someone else would have better luck?) where the mother was in the child's bedroom during school and found a paper that her child forgot to give to her. The paper stated that there would be flu vaccines given at school and to return the form signed if you *did not* want your child to receive it.. no form, they would be vaxed. The day was that day! She rushed to the school and snatched her kid out of line with like 2 people in front of him. Its possible I muddled some details since its been awhile since I read the story. I've also heard (and this is more vaguely remembered, and its totally possible I'm combining details of multiple incidences) of parents returning the form signed saying no, and the student being called anyway and saying, "no, I'm not supposed to get it!" "Oh, yes you are!" and it taking a *lot* of convincing from a very outspoken (thank goodness) student, to get them to check the file and see that the child is telling the truth! 

Even as I think, "that couldn't happen at my kid's school. They wouldn't be that careless".. I still wouldn't chance it. 

[boomer78]

Originally Posted by LiLStar 

I remember seeing a post here a few years ago.. I don't remember who, and I've tried to look up the thread and haven't been able to find it (maybe someone else would have better luck?) where the mother was in the child's bedroom during school and found a paper that her child forgot to give to her. The paper stated that there would be flu vaccines given at school and to return the form signed if you *did not* want your child to receive it.. no form, they would be vaxed. The day was that day! She rushed to the school and snatched her kid out of line with like 2 people in front of him. Its possible I muddled some details since its been awhile since I read the story. I've also heard (and this is more vaguely remembered, and its totally possible I'm combining details of multiple incidences) of parents returning the form signed saying no, and the student being called anyway and saying, "no, I'm not supposed to get it!" "Oh, yes you are!" and it taking a *lot* of convincing from a very outspoken (thank goodness) student, to get them to check the file and see that the child is telling the truth! 

Even as I think, "that couldn't happen at my kid's school. They wouldn't be that careless".. I still wouldn't chance it. 

I would keep my child from school that day.

Like it was mentioned, some kids still get vaxed even with a signed note declining, and a lot nurses are very pro vax (I feel like most are) and very good at talking kids into it. I would honestly NOT trust that the school would really honor my decision (and even if they did, mistakes happen), just like I would not leave my child at a pediatrician's office alone.

It would bug me a little bit that the virus will shed (I'm guessing most kids would get the flu mist). I'm not afraid of germs in general, but let's face it - if the whole school gets vaxed, that makes for a lot of potentional carriers; kids sit in an enclosed space for many hours a day and when you combine it with bad hygiene - it's almost asking for it. Plus it weakens their immunity so who knows what else they will bring to school the following days/weeks. I wouldn't freak out but would give the child extra vitC, D3 and probiotics and made sure they know how important hand washing is.   

[sassyfirechick]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

I don't think it's worth the risk.  According to the 8th Circuit Court, you CAN'T sue the school or the nurse for administering an invasive procedure without parental consent, and if your child has a severe reaction, you can't undo that.

Seriously? Is that just in California? Because I'm pretty sure someone would feel my wrath if my child was vaxxed without my consent!  I can't see how someone who is not a legal guardian can make such a decision - I mean what if a kid is allergic to eggs and they vax them and cause a reaction?  I'm in CT but I'm not sure of how that is handled here.

Originally Posted by rnra 

In the link posted above, it says that the school clinic vaccinated the child even though the mother told them not to.  Obviously, we don't know all the details there.  It sounds like there could have been some miscommunication between mother and clinic, perhaps a refusal form wasn't signed, and the age of the child isn't mentioned.

In your case, I would send them.  The kids are 9 and 11--they are old enough to remind the staff that their mother refused the vaccines.  The clinic would probably need a signed consent in order to vaccinate.  I would sign a refusal form (if one is offered). I would also write a letter, sign it, and send it with my kids.  I'd tell the kids that they were not to get shots that day, and that if anyone gives them grief about it they should hand that person the letter and return to their desk.  

I wouldn't send a 3 year old, but I'd have no issue sending a 9 and 11 year old.

I would agree to this. Never in my wildest dreams would I think someone would perform an invasive medical procedure on my child without consent.  Definitely at that age, having  written and signed note should be sufficient and perhaps calling the school ahead of time or day of to remind them that your children are NOT to be vaxxed.  I'm sure there are parents who will get the flu shot done elsewhere, like the pediatrician, so I'm not sure how they can just pull everyone in and vax them without knowing this information.  As for the shedding, I wouldn't worry.  I work for a municipality and they offer free flu clinics every other week in my building so I'm constanty exposed to shedding and whatnot - the room use to pump is next door to social services and the food bank where the majority of the shot clinic goers are and I don't worry at all about catching anything or bringing it home to my LO.

[Bokonon]

I agree with the others - I would keep my child home that day as well.

In addition to what everyone else has said, there can be a lot of peer pressure too.  Kids could make fun of a child for not getting the shot, and 11 and 9 are certainly prime ages for bending to peer pressure, especially when all the teachers and nurses are around them saying that it's safe and doesn't hurt.

[emmy526]

I'd keep my kids home too, for my OWN piece of mind... i remember in the early 70's elementary grades getting lined up at school for some vaccine, and there were a couple kids who didn't have to go...all the kids in line were wishing they were those two, and kept making remarks of 'how lucky' they were not to have to get a shot.  I also remember the one girl saying it was against her religion and that's why, the other girl said she was going to her own dr for it instead..This was 2nd grade.  

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by rnra 

In the link posted above, it says that the school clinic vaccinated the child even though the mother told them not to.  Obviously, we don't know all the details there.  It sounds like there could have been some miscommunication between mother and clinic, perhaps a refusal form wasn't signed, and the age of the child isn't mentioned.

"Told" should be good enough.  Let's not make excuses.  The school was listed as an elementary school.  

In your case, I would send them.  The kids are 9 and 11--they are old enough to remind the staff that their mother refused the vaccines.  The clinic would probably need a signed consent in order to vaccinate.  I would sign a refusal form (if one is offered). I would also write a letter, sign it, and send it with my kids.  I'd tell the kids that they were not to get shots that day, and that if anyone gives them grief about it they should hand that person the letter and return to their desk.  

There are adults who come on here somewhat regularly who are worried about telling their doctor they do not want to vax - some who even cave in and vaxxed despite their uneasy feelings about it.  I do not think it is fair to expect a 9 and 11 year old to stand up to school nurses and the like.

I would not send them.  Hopefully you can plan a fun day off!

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by LiLStar 

 I've also heard (and this is more vaguely remembered, and its totally possible I'm combining details of multiple incidences) of parents returning the form signed saying no, and the student being called anyway and saying, "no, I'm not supposed to get it!" "Oh, yes you are!" and it taking a *lot* of convincing from a very outspoken (thank goodness) student, to get them to check the file and see that the child is telling the truth! 

That's my daughter!  You remember the story correctly.  She was 12 when this happened.  She actually is *quite* wellspoken  and outspoken - I would not expect this level of articulation or firmness from other kids (including my other two).

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

That's my daughter!  You remember the story correctly.  She was 12 when this happened.  She actually is *quite* wellspoken  and outspoken - I would not expect this level of articulation or firmness from other kids (including my other two).

Poor thing!

My son fell down on the playground and had to go to the nurse's office for a bandaid when he was in kindergarten.  He was hurt and crying, but made sure to tell the nurse "No shots!  I'm not allowed to get any shots!"  LOL, I gave him the lesson but must have oversold it!  Of course, he had a bad reaction to the only shot he remembers getting, so he is terrified of them on his own.

[elus0814]

When our kids were in school (in between homeschooling years) their school did the flu mist in the cafeteria just prior to lunch time. We kept them out of school so they wouldn't be exposed to shedding viruses while eating lunch and so they wouldn't be 'accidentally' vaccinated. I could see someone telling them above their protests that it was ok and they needed to get it. 

[erigeron]

I'm not even a non-vaxer and if this came up for my kid and the school was doing a clinic for a shot I didn't want my child to get, I would investigate the setup of the clinic pretty carefully and consider not sending my kid to school if there were signs that it would be a mass vaccination (as opposed to, say, individual kids getting called from class to the nurse's office). The story of the opt-out form is pretty alarming. I question whether that is even legal. I would think a signed opt-IN form should be on file for each child, but I think this has come up in other threads and the failure to require documentation in some cases/places is pretty disturbing to me (I'm a health care provider myself--documentation protects both the patient and me). 

[Chicharronita]

I'd keep my kid at home! It's not worth the risk of her getting "accidentally" vaccinated.

[utandy]

Originally Posted by LiLStar 

I remember seeing a post here a few years ago.. I don't remember who, and I've tried to look up the thread and haven't been able to find it (maybe someone else would have better luck?) where the mother was in the child's bedroom during school and found a paper that her child forgot to give to her. The paper stated that there would be flu vaccines given at school and to return the form signed if you *did not* want your child to receive it.. no form, they would be vaxed. The day was that day! She rushed to the school and snatched her kid out of line with like 2 people in front of him. Its possible I muddled some details since its been awhile since I read the story. I've also heard (and this is more vaguely remembered, and its totally possible I'm combining details of multiple incidences) of parents returning the form signed saying no, and the student being called anyway and saying, "no, I'm not supposed to get it!" "Oh, yes you are!" and it taking a *lot* of convincing from a very outspoken (thank goodness) student, to get them to check the file and see that the child is telling the truth! 

Even as I think, "that couldn't happen at my kid's school. They wouldn't be that careless".. I still wouldn't chance it. 

My 13 y/o DD Told the teacher she was not supposed to be vaxed. The teacher told her to get in line. She told the teacher she was supposed to call home if they tried make her get a shot. Teacher threatened to give my DD a pink slip if she didn't get in line and go. On the way to the auditorium (where the shots were being given) DD slipped out of line and called. I ran down and raised some hell with the nurse giving the shots, Nurse called teacher down and asked to see permission slips (what the crap she was doing it with out seeing consent forms) Teacher got DD's which had " Do not vaccinate" written in bold black marker. Nurse (this was a health department nurse) refused to do anymore shots with out a parent there to give consent. Then I raised a little bit more hell with the teacher and the principal.

That in a grammar slaughtered nut shell is why I would keep them home.

If my DD would have been younger and a bit less defiant I am sure she would have been given shots that day. DD is now 18 and I am still mad as all get out. 5

[columbusmomma]

I have a different response to this question..... I don't keep my children home when the school holds a flu shot done by our local health dept. I also will include I'm a school nurse who doesn't get the flu shot or have myown kids get it. I don't think it's necessary. That being said, someone accidentally being vaxed would never occur in a clinic in our school. The nurses giving the shot would not risk their nursing license and just vaccinate anyone. Children aren't rounded up and sent into the nurses givin ghe flu shot. A large amt. of paperwork must be completed by the parent if they want their child to receive the flu shot. The nurses giving the vaccine carefully review the paperwork. They won't administer the vaccine if the parent hasn't completely answered all the questions, there is a questionable form turned in, the parent used a pencil instead of a pen, etc. Only students who are to receive the flu shot ever enter the clinic area and their paperwork is in hand. Never would a nurse give a shot to a student without paperwork. I'm sorry, some of these stories just seem so far fetched! I'm not doubting the stories, just kind of amazed that a licensed healthcare professional would just adminster a shot to anyone. There is NEVER any pressure in our school system for anyone to receive a flu shot. And as a school nurse I never adminster any type of vaccine.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by columbusmomma 

A large amt. of paperwork must be completed by the parent if they want their child to receive the flu shot. The nurses giving the vaccine carefully review the paperwork. They won't administer the vaccine if the parent hasn't completely answered all the questions, there is a questionable form turned in, the parent used a pencil instead of a pen, etc. Only students who are to receive the flu shot ever enter the clinic area and their paperwork is in hand. Never would a nurse give a shot to a student without paperwork. I'm sorry, some of these stories just seem so far fetched! I'm not doubting the stories, just kind of amazed that a licensed healthcare professional would just adminster a shot to anyone. There is NEVER any pressure in our school system for anyone to receive a flu shot. And as a school nurse I never adminster any type of vaccine.

It is great your school is so on top of things!

Sadly, there are a number of stories of kids vaxxed or almost vaxxed by accident…it is not just a one-off.  People do need to be viligent.