EPO/Borage Oil « Back to Group Discussions

[segolilymama]

I'm wondering who else is using evening primrose or borage oil at this point - I used EPO with all three of the boys from about 35 weeks on, and I don't really know if it helped or not. It feels to me like one of the few tangible things I can do to really prep for labor.

This time around my MW suggested using Borage oil instead, since I have had a stubborn cervical lip with my 3 other births. She said the Borage tends to be a little 'stronger' in its ability to soften/ripen the cervix. Anyone with experience in this?

[mamaharrison]

I used EPO orally and vaginally from 35 weeks with DD. I had terrible trouble with cervical dilation and a lip for days, but compounding issues {short cord, malposition, head no engaged or against the cervix for much of labor, scar tissue}. So, I can't say if my cervix was ripened by the EPO or not, but I can say that I am not taking it this time because it was expensive and I didn't really feel like there was a benefit. I would consider borgae oil if it were cheap though ; )

[phatchristy]

I took epo orally and vaginally with all births...I actually do tend to dilate and have pretty quick labors.  As for whether or not it helps, I don't know.  Though they always tell me no earlier than my 'go time' 37 weeks.  I also did some herbal pregnancy pills they have '5w' which are supposed to be taken the last 5 weeks of pregnancy but they also said not before 37 weeks in my case.  The midwives claim to see more of a difference with the 5w they at least tell me that they seem to have fewer moms go post dates when using it.  

[kel]

From what I've read and heard anecdote wise, epo does very little to "help" in any way.  I haven't heard anything either way about borage oil...   

But my understanding is also that cervical lips seem to generally be a result of malpositioning during labor - so I'm not sure that oiling up for weeks ahead of time would make a difference in that case.  But if you like doing it...?

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/556461/what-do-you-do-for-a-cervical-lip

[mamaharrison]

I agree wit you, Kel. All the research I have done says the same. 

Sego--if you get a lip this time try to literally hold your belly up and get that baby head square on the cervix for a few contractions--this is what 'back labor no more' is all about--and I have had a few friends do this with AMAZING results--like baby flying out of vagina results! hahahaaaaa

I plan on getting this baby head on my cervix this time--no messing around!

[segolilymama]

Well, I think in my case the lip may be due to a small amount of scar tissue from a biopsy I had done in my early 20's. It's just a theory, but having it in the same spot 3 times in a row, and knowing that's about where the biopsy was done, it seems pretty logical to me. Each time I had the lip stretched to let baby through, and it was by far the worst part of each labor. That was why my MW said the Borage might help. IDK... I'm not convinced it's worth it, but I'm also not convinced it might not help lol.

I did check out the 'back labor no more' book - I think I need to order that one, just in case....

[Mamabeakley]

Yeah, a cervical lip and having it manually stretched really suck.  I know for me it was related to baby position both times (both my boys were posterior for most of labor, DS2 was born posterior too.)  I haven't taken either EPO or Borage oil.  I did take homeopathic arnica to reduce the lip which was swelling with DS2 and I think it helped a lot (compared to labor with DS1.)   Still asked MW to push back lip, but process was easier/quicker having reduced the swelling first.  So that's something to think about having on hand if you weren't already planning to.

[kel]

I would definitely second the arnica.  Although if it's from scarring, nothing may reduce the lip too greatly... but it does seem like arnica would help a lot with keeping the swelling at bay as much as possible. 

Have you read this article? 

http://midwifethinking.com/2011/01/22/the-anterior-cervical-lip-how-to-ruin-a-perfectly-good-birth/

It may be more specific to a different cervical lip situation than you're experiencing sego - but I like the overall attitude of the midwife...

"An anterior cervical lip is a normal part of the birth process. It does not require management and is best left undetected. The complications associated with an cervical lip are caused by identifying it, and managing the situation as though it is a problem."

There's also a commenter at the end who talks about how she always has a cervical lip during childbirth, and finding it and holding it out of the way herself, instead of letting the midwife do it, was much less painful.

[Mamabeakley]

I tried holding mine out of the way myself and it wasn't very effective.  For me, the brief agony (and yes, it's agony) of having the MW hold it while I pushed past it was a better deal than a prolonged transition where I felt some contractions as cervical and some as pushing and some inbetween, which was really bothering me - hard to be in the swing of things when the swing switches back and forth all the time.  But that's just how I experienced it - I can quite see that the opposite could be true for other mamas.

[mamaharrison]

I had a MWs had up my vagina 'holding back a lip' for an hour while I pushed and would never do it again. When I finally came to my senses and basically yelled that I wanted her hand out of my vagina NOW she 'accidentally' broke my water without permission :( 

I can see where it would have been 'worth it' if it had worked and DD would have been born, but now I just feel like physiological birth is the way to go for me period. I don't like the managed aspect of it at all because there are just so many unknowns--the body is working the way it needs to in almost all situations. 

DD wasn't born for another 20 hours after that episode, too--and I was fully dilated--it was positional for us and short cord issues not the lip holding her back.

[purposefuldoula]

Originally Posted by kel 

I would definitely second the arnica.  Although if it's from scarring, nothing may reduce the lip too greatly... but it does seem like arnica would help a lot with keeping the swelling at bay as much as possible. 

Have you read this article? 

http://midwifethinking.com/2011/01/22/the-anterior-cervical-lip-how-to-ruin-a-perfectly-good-birth/

It may be more specific to a different cervical lip situation than you're experiencing sego - but I like the overall attitude of the midwife...

"An anterior cervical lip is a normal part of the birth process. It does not require management and is best left undetected. The complications associated with an cervical lip are caused by identifying it, and managing the situation as though it is a problem."

There's also a commenter at the end who talks about how she always has a cervical lip during childbirth, and finding it and holding it out of the way herself, instead of letting the midwife do it, was much less painful.

Yes! I have had one with both of my babies and this time around, we just aren't going to go there. Learning about how the cervix dilates at an oval, NOT a circle, has been really helpful visually for that.  It makes sense that there would be a lip on some side at some point if it doesn't dilate at a perfect circle! 

As for the EPO, I did it religiously with DD2 and ended up with a labor just as long as my labor with DD1. This time around, I've just decided to not spend the money on it. If I really want something down there softening it up, I have DH for that :)

[Mamabeakley]

Yeah, I ASKED that midwife to hold the lip back, after I tried everything I felt I could handle myself.  

[segolilymama]

 This time around, I've just decided to not spend the money on it. If I really want something down there softening it up, I have DH for that :)

LOL Agreed ;)

It's funny, I don't plan to have an internal exam at all with this one, so I doubt I will know if there IS a lip involved, lol. Which is partly why I want to do some 'prepping', I guess. With DS3 DH was prepared to hold that lip for me if needed (we were UC'ing), but since we ended up in the hospital I asked the OB to do it. It was kind of nice because my annoyance was pointed at him instead of DH lol.

Great article, Kel - gota good chuckle out of these lines: "This is called the ‘Ferguson reflex’ – probably after some man." "It seems midwives are bossy worldwide."