Tongue tie clipped. Latch has gotten worse

[Blessed_Mom]

Hi,

I had my LO's posterior tongue tie clipped last Friday at 4 PM . He is 10 weeks old. His latch was ok.. not that bad ..but he was very refluxy and gassy and his transfer of milk was not efficient (I also had oversupply to start with). 

After the TTC (clipping) his latch seems to have gotten worse and he isn't even taking in as much milk as he used to. It has been nearly 40 hours. 

We are trying to do his tongue exercises... We have a CST appointment on Tuesday..but I thought the latch was supposed to get better..not worse.

[dogmom327]

I am so sorry it's not going well! After 10 weeks of nursing with a tie, your babe has to relearn to nurse. Unfortunately it's not always an instanteous improvement (in fact I'd be really surprised at 10 weeks of age if it ever was). Hopefully you can see a lactation consultant with lots of experience with tongue ties. That's critical.

[Blessed_Mom]

No one told me that was critical.. the CST, LC and the Dr. who clipped all said his reflux and transfer would get better with the clipping.

The same LC just asked me to give it time.. but it has been 40 hrs.

Now I feel so bad. I was already so much on the fence abt the clipping. It wasnt painful for me. Just that my milk supply had started getting erratic and he was very refluxy and gassy....and they discovered a mild posterior TT.....

Now it has gotten worse. I feel cheated :'(

[OSUvet]

So sorry mama... I went through this - it is so hard! I dont know why the info on tongue ties out there is so conflicting and so much unknown by some professionals. I was finally convinced that my LO had a posterior tongue tie despite being told he didn't by LC's and midwives, and it was clipped by a very experienced pediatric dentist at 8 weeks. We continued to have issues for several weeks but I think the LC I saw who also did CST and suck training helped a lot as well as chiropractic care to help him re-gain normal head/jaw/neck conformation and learn to suck properly. It did get better, although he had a somewhat tight, pinchy latch until almost 10 MONTHS. It was bearable at that point tho.

Hang in there if you can - going through all that was the hardest thing I've ever done, but I'm so glad we did and are still nursing now at 21 months and counting :)

[Blessed_Mom]

OSUvet...

did things get worse though? Before they got better? And can you explain the suck training a little? Thanks.

[Mamawearsyellow]

Hey Mama, I hope things are getting better now. At ten weeks, my daughter decided she didn't want the breast as much because she realized that the breastmilk was causing her reflux which burned her esophagus. I would say that your baby may have a dairy protein allergy if the reflux is getting worse. This is the case with my daughter. I removed dairy from my diet and six days later almost to the minute (the amount of time casein needs to clear your bodies) she was a different baby. I highly recommend examining your diet as a breastfeeding team. I have now successfully nursed my babe for almost 15 months. Casein, or caseinate, is milk protein and its found in almost all processed foods and dairy products. Just read labels. It causes reflux in 20-40% of babies. And, if it is the case with your child, the allergy subsides around age 2 or 3. No, we don't miss butter or cheese.

Also, see an infant chiropractor, too. That can help with reflux too.

Just a thought, something to consider. Hope everything gets better soon. Hugs.

[LilMomma83]

It takes some time!!! CST should help, and if you can get with an IBCLC for suck training...I'm not sure where you went, but, not all providers revise deely enough either. But this early on, I would just try to remember that your baby has not been able to move his tongue properly, so it doesn't have much stregth yet...it needs "re-hab" so to speak (suck training and lots of nursing). We used an electric toothbrush on my DDs tongue as well to gain muscle tone

[Blessed_Mom]

Quick update

Seeing a craniosacral doc tomorrow

His suck has improved over yesterday. Was good immediately after clipping (Fri eve) and whole of Saturday and half of Sunday was shallow, lazy and toneless. But it improved gradually and at least he is eating as much as he used to (or so it seems so far).

Thank you all....

[Blessed_Mom]

Oh..have been off ALL dairy, corn, coffee, soy, eggs, tomatoes, chocolate..since he was 4 weeks old (with one bad trial of dairy in between but taken out again)

[Blessed_Mom]

How do you use an electric toothbrush on a 11 week old baby? What size? and whatdo you do with it? T

Thanks

[Blessed_Mom]

Yesterday the same doc stretched out his tongue since she said it was partially growing back... he seems in greater pain (he cried a lot for that too....way more than ever for the TTClip itself) and now again..nursing strike...not nursing almost at all..just drinking to thirst.

[Vegan Princess]

Hi,

My poor baby has had her posterior tongue tie clipped twice and then lasered. Also had her lip tie done when her tongue was lasered. I found that after the 2 clippings, she pretty much stopped sucking until the pain went away - a few days at least. I gave her tylenol (ok'd by the surgeon who did it) for about 3-4 days after each time. I know she was in pain bc she would whimper when she would go to nurse. I think what your son is doing is very normal and hopefully should resolve when he feels better. Are you giving any tylenol? Also, are you doing exercises to keep it from healing closed? My first doc said I didn't need to - the 2nd guy (who did the laser) said it had grown back some and he has us doing stretching and massaging 3x/day. So far at 1 week out it hasn't grown back.

I've been told by multiple sources it can take a couple weeks for baby to get everything sorted out after getting clipped. Also, my lactation consultant told me it's pretty common to get a great feed right after or even for a day after but for the baby to nurse poorly for a few days after that. She explained it like when you take an exercise class after not working out for a long time. You do well in class and feel good - but then you are super sore and can barely walk. Your baby hasn't exercised his tongue in this new way - so he is probably fatigued. I noticed my daughter had a great feed right after this last time - then went back to normal. Now, almost a week later, she is getting good feeds again - but not every feed. I rented a scale so i know how much she is getting. So a good feed for her gets her almost double the milk of a not good feed!

Hang in there! I'm learning this is definitely a work in progress sort of thing! We are seeing a CST too - saw her today and go back tomorrow. Not sure if it helps or not - willing to try it.

Cindy

[Blessed_Mom]

Oh my God.. Cindy

Your post resonates so much! Hope then that good feeds are just round the corner.

[Vegan Princess]

I read some of your earlier threads about baby being super sleepy and having to set an alarm to feed, etc. I could have written your posts! I didn't know then that is a sign of tongue tie - bc they get pooped out from working so hard with a tongue that can't get the milk out. My baby is a few weeks younger than yours (9/28).

Keep me posted please! Oh and btw, I saw someone mention breastflow bottles in another thread of yours. I LOVE them! My first daughter got nipple confusion from a different bottle and breastflow actually completely fixed her latch! They are all I will use with this babe (though I am trying not to do too many bottles. I am often supplementing after feeds with my pumped milk, but using a lactaid). 

Cindy

[Blessed_Mom]

Cindy,

How did the CST appointment go? During my LO's CST appointment he worked on my son's high palate because he said that was the area needing most urgent attention. That and some tight nerves at the base of his skull which he said control digestion.

Well... that was the day after the stretching of the tongue but since then my LO has not nursed as well as the third day of the TTclip. So Friday TTClip...Sat very poor nursing.. Sunday great nursing. Monday tongue stretchng - he hurt the most and cried. Nursed poorly, Tuesday CST.... still poor feeds.

Today is Friday and he has been terribly gassy since the CST appointment. Either coincidence or what but things gt worse rather than better. This guy I went to is the magic guru of CST...so I cannot imagine what to think. For the first time in his 11 week life...he even lost weight rather than gain more than 7-8 ounce every week. This week he lost 1 ounce (same scale , naked ..everything the same).Or you can pretend he gained nothing....  :'(((

What should I think? 

[Vegan Princess]

How is it going today? Hang in there - it took a good week this time for things to start working for us. And probably around that for her to even start sucking again after she was clipped not using the laser.

Our CST went well. We went 2 days in a row. Tues and wed. Since about wed she has really been doing great and transferring well for most feeds. I stopped supplementing on wed and haven't since. She's gained about .65 ounce/day since then. I also have stopped pumping after feeds. She seems to be transferring around 3 ounces per feed. Sometimes more, sometimes a bit less. Yay! She also doesn't cry when we do the stretching exercises now - so I think she is pretty healed up. It has taken us 2 months and 3 revisions to get to this point! We are going back to the CST on Thursday. She is also working on some stuff related to her birth - she has an odd head shape bc she was inside of me w/her head cocked to the side (asynclitic). I have no idea if the CST had anything to do with her nurisng well or if it was coincidental. I still have a hard time believing in it. Though she did sleep 6.5 hours the night after the 1st appointment. Hasn't slept thru the night since though.

It took 8 days after this last revision for her to consistently have good feeds. I think just stick with it and since he did have a day of great nursing in there, I'm hopeful that he will figure it out and do more for you! Are you giving tylenol? If he is not feeding well, are you supplementing at all? I def would be if he is losing weight. At the breast if you can, or with breastflow bottles. Are you pumping to keep up your supply when he isn't feeding well? 

Thinking of you and hoping today is a good day for you both!

Cindy