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"The increasing evidence that aluminum/adjuvants cause . . . " - Page 3

post #41 of 149
I meant vaccines in general.

From the article: "Paul Offit, of the University of Pennsylvania, is the developer of a very lucrative rotavirus vaccine patent that has made him a millionaire."
post #42 of 149
Thread Starter 
But that's not what's being critiqued. Didn't someone already explain to me that t&s aren't "anti vaccine" they just want more studies of aluminum.
post #43 of 149
They do. But no one else does; especially those that make money off vaccines.
post #44 of 149
Thread Starter 
Except only a few vaccines even contain aluminum.
post #45 of 149
Even so, that doesn't make vaccine profiteers enthusiastic about studies that are critical. As the article fully shows.
post #46 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Except only a few vaccines even contain aluminum.

Really?

From http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components/aluminum-adjuvants-vaccines:

 


The US licensed vaccines for children that contain aluminum adjuvants are3:

 are not only on the US pediatric vaccine schedule, but are given multiple times. So children are getting SIXTEEN of these aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in the first 15 months of life: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

 

Only a few.  Yeah.  16.  Starting the day of birth.


Edited by Taximom5 - 11/23/12 at 4:39am
post #47 of 149

And apparently there was testing of a squalene-adjuvanted hep B vaccine that was reported in 1999:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X99000882

 

Is there a way to find out what population (the military?  the poor in India or South America?) was used as test subjects?

 
post #48 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

 So children are getting SIXTEEN of these aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in the first 15 months of life: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

 

Only a few.  Yeah.  16.  Starting the day of birth.

 

But for vaccine enthusiasts, that IS just a few. winky.gif


Edited by Chicharronita - 11/23/12 at 11:02am
post #49 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

And apparently there was testing of a squalene-adjuvanted hep B vaccine that was reported in 1999:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X99000882

 

Is there a way to find out what population (the military?  the poor in India or South America?) was used as test subjects?

 

 

The full article would identify the test population.  The study population referenced in the article is quite small (N = 230).

 

While "the poor in India or South America" make for a very colorful picture of the sort of test population unscrupulous researchers would go for, but if you think about it at all critically, you'll see that they're pretty unlikely for logistical reasons.  The study involved participants receiving multiple injections over either 2 or 6 months, and blood tests at some point after each injection.  With that schedule of office visits, life is much easier if your research subjects have phones and mailing addresses you can use to contact them, and if they can easily reach the clinic using public transit.  Many of the people living in the slums of Delhi (just for example) are homeless, and the problem with homeless research subjects is that it's really hard to track them down if, for whatever reason, they don't come in.  Since much of those Delhi slums are lacking sanitation and power, the clinic has to be elsewhere (need refrigeration for vaccines and blood samples, and clinic staff need to be able to wash their hands), so the study subjects will have to go out of their way for appointments - this is a recipe for patient attrition.  If you offered money, you could probably recruit a study population in seconds (the IRB at your home institution would very likely disapprove this plan for ethical reasons, and could prevent you from continuing the research).  But you'd have a lot of trouble getting them back for the second visit. 

 

You'd want to do a study like this in an area with low prevalence of HepB in the population, so that you could be relatively confident that the antibodies you saw weren't the result of prior exposure to the disease.  India and South America are bad for that.  The poorer the subject population, the more bad they are.

 

If I were to place bets, I'd say that the study population were people from Rochester, MN or Emeryville, CA, recruited by ads in the paper.

post #50 of 149
Thread Starter 
I count 2-4 vaccines on the schedule that contain aluminum. Yes. That is just a few.
post #51 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I count 2-4 vaccines on the schedule that contain aluminum. Yes. That is just a few.

Perhaps you should count again.

3 doses of Hep B
4 doses of DTaP
4 doses of Hib
4 doses of PCV
1 dose of Hep A

3+ 4 + 4 + 4 + 1 = 16 aluminum-containing vaccines that children receive by the age of 15 months.

15 (all but the last DTaP) are given by 12 months.

That is not "just a few."
post #52 of 149
Thread Starter 
Taxi, I'm counting vaccines. You seem to be counting doses. How many vaccines are on the schedule? Around a dozen? 3-4 of them have aluminum. Yet aluminum is used to demonize the entire industry.
post #53 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Taxi, I'm counting vaccines. You seem to be counting doses. How many vaccines are on the schedule? Around a dozen? 3-4 of them have aluminum. Yet aluminum is used to demonize the entire industry.

Unless Taxi is wrong, there are 5 (not separated out vaccines) that contain aluminum. There are 10 on the schedule for non-high risk individuals- so half.  It is definitely more if you count jabs, which makes sense as there is aluminum in each of the 4 or 5 jabs for DTaP

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6105a5.htm

If aluminum in vaccines is unsafe, it is a very big deal.  Heck, it's a big deal if it is unsafe and in one vaccine we give to our babies.

post #54 of 149
Thread Starter 
How do you get five? I count 3-4 depending on which brand of HIB. Counting jabs certainly makes sense if you're discussing risk, but I'm addressing the percent of the total vaccines market that includes aluminum, so counting jabs makes less sense, considering all the other ones also include multiple doses.

I agree that if aluminum is unsafe it's a big deal, for the vaccines that contain aluminum. Which is the minority of vaccines on the schedule.
post #55 of 149

I double checked - according to Sears, the following contain aluminum:

 

 

  • 1..Hib (PedVaxHib brand only) - 225 micrograms per shot.
  • 2...Hepatitis B - 250 micrograms.
  • 3...DTaP - depending on the manufacturer, ranges from 170 to 625 micrograms.
  • 4...Pneumococcus - 125 micrograms.
  • 5...Hepatitis A - 250 micrograms.

 

5.  So, depending on which brand of Hib your child gets - you are looking at 5/10 or 4/10 vaccines (not jabs) containing aluminum.  

post #56 of 149
Thread Starter 
I missed hep a.
post #57 of 149

no worries.

post #58 of 149
Thread Starter 
This has been posted before: http://archive.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/documents/Aluminumws.pdf


Workshop summary Aluminum in vaccines
Quote:
While aluminum adjuvants have been used in vaccines for many years, their disposition following intramuscular (IM) admin- istration has not been studied because the low dose did not cause detectable changes in the normal plasma concentra- tion

Quote:
Preliminary animal experiments have shown that the aluminum adjuvants are dissolved by citrate in the interstitial fluid, leaving the body rapidly.
post #59 of 149

Wow Taxi and Kathy, I had no idea there were this many aluminum-containing vaccines given to infants! 

post #60 of 149

Most of my friends with babies and toddlers had no idea, either, until I told them to go research it.

 

It's the older generation--the people over, say 45 or so--who really have no clue, because their children got significantly fewer vaccines as children.  So they have no idea how many have been added. It's not like the pharmaceutical industry advertises, "Hey, Moms and Dads! Grandmas and Grandpas!  We've now TRIPLED the vaccine schedule, and we're routinely vaccinating babies a sexually transmitted disease the DAY OF BIRTH!  Woo-HOO for us!"

 

My parents actually didn't believe me when I first told them how many vaccines my children were given. They thought I was exaggerating.  I had to show them the CDC website.

 

They believe me now.

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