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Why Do People Follow Medical Authorities? - Page 5  

post #81 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Just out of curiosity, why does one have a doctor that they don't trust? 

I don't think many do.  shrug.gif

 

As people are arguing here, trust does not necessarily equal "follow all directives."  

 

I imagine that if people do not trust (in general) their doctor, they look for another one.  That can take time and some people have more choices than others.  

post #82 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

Maybe we can poll MDC folks and get a larger sample size.

My pediatrician did a stint with the Peace Corps in Africa. She talks about how we have the luxury of different safe feeding options here, "but breast milk is absolutely the best thing for them!" She told me we should keep nursing as long as we were both happy with it. The other docs in her practice have said similar things when we've seen them. The on call nurse gave us careful instructions for combining nursing and gastrointestinal rest when ds had his first stomach virus. She referred us to an awesome LC when we needed one.

She also has non-breastfeeding related good points.
post #83 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post


That's fine. Everything I said was true for myself and the 100 other people in my class.
Perhaps you should have phrased your comment differently, since you categorically stated that doctors have no training in breastfeeding. Apparently this was based on a sample size of 2.

 

Our first pediatrician was not so good either. She insisted dd NEEDS to take these great vitamins from day 1 - because she was being breastfed only. IF she had been on formula, she obviouly wouldn't need any but 'breastmilk is deficient in many vitamins'. That was all said and prescribed before I even left the hospital after giving birth. At our second appointment at 1 week she insisted on those vitamins, because unlike breastmilk, formula has it all figured out. At our last appointment at 4 weeks she said dd is gaining her weight great. THEN my dh asked jokingly when is she going to stop wanting to nurse all the time, like literally every half hour at times. She paused, looked at the charts again and proclaimed that I'm feeding her way to much and she may become obese. I need to stoop feeding her on demand and give her Pedialyte ever other feeding. And then we kind of talked about vaccines, at the time we wanted to delay them and she got really upset, immediately claiming vaccines don't cause autism (I wasn't even discussing that in particular). We talked about ingredients, she claimed vaccines don't contain what they clearly contain (apparently she never read the package insert or was taught that at school). And then she fired us. So clearly, I have another pediatrician to ad to the mix. I'm just glad we didn't follow any of her advice. Don't get me wrong. She was a very sweet lady as long as everything was going accoding to the plan. But I honestly believe she gave me the wrong advice.

post #84 of 198

Double post.

post #85 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Just out of curiosity, why does one have a doctor that they don't trust? I mean, outside of living in a place where your access to doctors is extremely limited, why would someone stay with a doctor that disagrees so strongly with their pov about the health of your child?

I shopped around for my doctors, both for birthing and for my kids. I  drive 40 miles to my pediatrician because we have similar philosophies about my kid's healthcare. It's a huge priority. 
I don't think you have t disagree strongly with your drs pov to take his/her advice with a grain of salt. Our son's ND moved away and left her practice about a year ago when DS was almost 6 months old. We'd carefully chosen her prior to his birth, and either DP or I are thrilled with her replacement. She's very young and and inexperienced, but more importantly, she's quick to prescribe abx and alarmist about many things.
I wouldn't say I trust her advice. I do value it, but it's just one source. She works in a practice with other NDs, and I do feel that if DS were very sick or hurt, I would be able to seek help and opinions from one of them, if not necessarily her, so I also value having established a relationship with the practice. We havent looked elsewhere for another dr partly because of the convenience factor (no other naturopathic practices nearby that have pediatric specialists) but also because we just do not go to the dr very often, so being in perfect sync with the dr is just not a huge priority for us. It's just one more resource we can access if need be.
post #86 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post


I don't think you have t disagree strongly with your drs pov to take his/her advice with a grain of salt. Our son's ND moved away and left her practice about a year ago when DS was almost 6 months old. We'd carefully chosen her prior to his birth, and either DP or I are thrilled with her replacement. She's very young and and inexperienced, but more importantly, she's quick to prescribe abx and alarmist about many things.
I wouldn't say I trust her advice. I do value it, but it's just one source. She works in a practice with other NDs, and I do feel that if DS were very sick or hurt, I would be able to seek help and opinions from one of them, if not necessarily her, so I also value having established a relationship with the practice. We havent looked elsewhere for another dr partly because of the convenience factor (no other naturopathic practices nearby that have pediatric specialists) but also because we just do not go to the dr very often, so being in perfect sync with the dr is just not a huge priority for us. It's just one more resource we can access if need be.

Sure, I agree. I take all advice with a grain of salt, from pretty much everyone. I take the parts that I find useful and then keep the rest of it in the back of my mind as knowledge about whatever topic being discussed. But, the reason I asked is that some people tend to think that doctors are idiots, or that doctors dont know anything about breastfeeding, etc. If you have that opinion of your doctor, get a new doctor.... It just doesnt make sense to me why people would keep a doctor that they thought was an idiot or that they didnt trust in the huge desicion making department as far as their kid's healthcare goes. 

 

For example, my doctor advises vaccines, but she also respects my decision as a parent to make that decision for my child. She feels that it is her job to give me the information, and let me make the decision. And that goes for pretty much everything having to do with my kid. I guess if I was just looking for a doctor to help me if DD was hurt or sick, I'd rely on our childrens hospital's ER. I dont need to maintain a relationship with a ped "just in case", I need to maintain a relationship with a ped so that my child has ongoing care. 

 

It's just a difference in the need/want for medical care and advice. I want someone to look at my kid every few months and tell me she's alright and that there are no problems (or if there are, address those concerns). 

post #87 of 198

Before i had children, i never went to the doctor. I have been blessed with good health. Since having children, ive had to endure incompetencies from pediatricians and obgyns over and over again. I always go in with the attitude-i WANT to trust you, but hell, why do you  say such stupid things? 

 

Why do i use a ped that i dont trust? Because to get on wic, you need to have the  your childs lead tested which requires visit to the doctor.  

 

Right now, i am doing my best to find a ped i can trust, but they dont take medicaid.  I guess i should pay out of pocket. 

 

Also, like myself, my children have been blessed with good health, and the only reason to go to a doctor is for vaxes and well checks.

 

I agree that western medicine has its uses, and im all for it, but it certainly has its limitations.

 

Also, if a doctor has an opinion on a subject, especially a subject that is known to be contraversial, they could at least admit, that there is a contraversy, and they advocate  this particular position for these particular reasons.

 

Just be honest about it, dont TALK DOWN to me. Just because i  pushed a baby through my vagina and look a bit dishevelled and sleep deprived does not  mean i am an imbecile  (or that im not sure i can spell dishevelled)

 

I would love  doctor i can trust. And i have noticed they are a little more educated on breastfeeding now, especially docs who have had their own children.

 

I would rather see a naturpath for real health questions and that is definitely out of pocket.

post #88 of 198
Where we live doctors come with practices, and you get who you get. It stinks.

Why stay with a bad doctor? Insurance/medicaid; no car; all practices; no partner support or even hindering from partner for finding new doc; change in beliefs, so doc that matched doesn't . Just a few possibilities.
post #89 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

Where we live doctors come with practices, and you get who you get. It stinks.
Why stay with a bad doctor? Insurance/medicaid; no car; all practices; no partner support or even hindering from partner for finding new doc; change in beliefs, so doc that matched doesn't . Just a few possibilities.

 

And often a doctor that you trust does something to break that trust.  Otherwise we would never hear about unnecessareans, birth rape, forceful retraction, etc.  If MDs were so trustworthy, why do so many of the MDC readers opt to birth unassisted or with a midwife?

post #90 of 198

The safety and wisdom of choosing unassisted birth has nothing to do with vaccines, but I'll just say it isn't a compelling argument against the medical establishment either.

post #91 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

One reason not to trust doctors, in general, is poor advise in the past, from multiple doctors. That can be confidence shaking.

 

Or because of being poorly treated.

 

My jaundiced eye toward the medical profession comes not only from studying its history (like how doctors used to adamantly refuse to wash their hands after doing autopsies and before they "helped" women in labor; google Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis) but from my bad experiences with doctors.

 

I've almost had exploratory surgery done on the wrong side, had an ob/gyn gleefully use a pen to mark where he'd cut me open to remove a cyst and fibroid without my permission, not to mention half-remembered experiences of painful ear treatments and other things from childhood.

 

I almost completely gave up on the profession when a pediatrician told me my 4 m.o. dd was "spoiled" because she'd never drunk from a bottle. 

post #92 of 198

Chicha, one of my colleagues was told only a decade ago that she should not pick up her baby every time she cried or she'd spoil her.

 

I was told to nurse my first baby only every 2-3 hours when he was a newborn.  When he sprouted 2 teeth at 4 months and got fussy trying to nurse, I was told that my milk was the problem, and that I should give him formula. The ped never even checked for teeth.


And of course, I was told to never ever ever EVER sleep with my baby.


I even got yelled at in the hospital for doing so.

 

.banghead.gif

post #93 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Chicha, one of my colleagues was told only a decade ago that she should not pick up her baby every time she cried or she'd spoil her.

 

I was told to nurse my first baby only every 2-3 hours when he was a newborn.  When he sprouted 2 teeth at 4 months and got fussy trying to nurse, I was told that my milk was the problem, and that I should give him formula. The ped never even checked for teeth.


And of course, I was told to never ever ever EVER sleep with my baby.


I even got yelled at in the hospital for doing so.

 

.banghead.gif

 

I've heard similar stories about doctors being anti-AP too from other people. 

 

This reminds me, in college I was acquaintances with a nursing student. She thought circumcision was humorous. "The skin just pops of like a bottle cap! Ha ha ha ha." 

 

Earlier I mentioned Dr. Semmelweis's futile campaign to get his colleagues to simply wash their hands after doing autopsies and before attending pregnant women.

 

And don't forget:

 

Unethical human experimentation in the United States

 

 

Quote:

"Throughout the 1840s, J. Marion Sims, who is often referred to as "the father of gynecology", performed surgical experiments on enslaved African women, without anaesthesia. The women regularly died from infections resulting from the experiments.[1] One of the women was experimented on 30 times. In order to test one of his theories about the causes of trismus in infants, Sims performed experiments where he used a shoemaker's awl to move around the skull bones of the babies of enslaved women."

 

It's not a stretch for me to think that a profession that is attractive to some people like this is not the one I want to take advice from, especially when it comes to a tender little babe. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

The safety and wisdom of choosing unassisted birth has nothing to do with vaccines, but I'll just say it isn't a compelling argument against the medical establishment either.

      

 

Until you read some of the horror stories of women's previous birthing experiences in the hospital.

 

I'm surprised anyone would even want to TTC after that, so it's nice that they found a way to heal from them.

 

It's not surprising that being as far away from medical personnel and equipment is part of it.


Edited by Chicharronita - 11/29/12 at 6:27pm
post #94 of 198

I feel like this thread is getting waaaay OT (which was "what does it mean when someone says they trust their doctor") and into straight doctor bashing.  Am I the only one who thinks this is totally hypocritical?  When the mainstream media points out all the UCs that end in death or harm to mother and baby, when they latch onto stories of negligent midwives, when they point out stories where children were adversely affected from not being vaccinated, MDC is (rightly) in an uproar - because these isolated instances shouldn't negate the entire practice.  One bad midwife shouldn't spoil the whole barrel, so to speak.  

 

The only place I see this discriminatory behavior allowed on MDC is in bashing Western medicine and medical professionals.  I've had many, many doctors in my life - they weren't all good, some weren't trustworthy at all - that doesn't mean I am prejudiced against the entire profession.  shrug.gif  Some of them were rockstars, investigating and figuring out things no one else could for me.  Where else on MDC is someone allowed to say, "Oh, I had a bad experience with a _____ person, so all _______ persons are horrible"?  Sounds pretty prejudicial to me...

post #95 of 198

somebody asked the question-why would someone see a doctor they didnt trust.  This was followed by several reasons why, among them bad experiences from the past. How is that doctor bashing?

 

The title of the thread, is 'why do people following medical authorities'. The above conversation is related to that, and not at all OT. 

 

I am dubious about trusting a profession that has shown itself to be incompetent many times over. That doesnt mean it is always incompetent, but, too often for me to trust it. There is nothing 'bashing' about that.

 

Sorry you feel so sensitive about  mothers trying to take the best care of their own health and those of their children.

post #96 of 198

"Bashing" is saying things like "I know one (or two) doctors who give bad advice about breastfeeding; therefore, I conclude and state as fact that doctors don't know anything about breastfeeding".  That kind of extrapolation is absurd.  I encountered one terrible lactation consultant.  Should I be posting unqualified statements that lactation consultants don't care about babies?

post #97 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickle18 View Post

I feel like this thread is getting waaaay OT (which was "what does it mean when someone says they trust their doctor") and into straight doctor bashing.  Am I the only one who thinks this is totally hypocritical?  When the mainstream media points out all the UCs that end in death or harm to mother and baby, when they latch onto stories of negligent midwives, when they point out stories where children were adversely affected from not being vaccinated, MDC is (rightly) in an uproar - because these isolated instances shouldn't negate the entire practice.  One bad midwife shouldn't spoil the whole barrel, so to speak.  

 

The only place I see this discriminatory behavior allowed on MDC is in bashing Western medicine and medical professionals.  I've had many, many doctors in my life - they weren't all good, some weren't trustworthy at all - that doesn't mean I am prejudiced against the entire profession.  shrug.gif  Some of them were rockstars, investigating and figuring out things no one else could for me.  Where else on MDC is someone allowed to say, "Oh, I had a bad experience with a _____ person, so all _______ persons are horrible"?  Sounds pretty prejudicial to me...

 

I think you have been hanging out at a different MDC than me.

 

I see those who choose UC regularly given a hard time .  I have seen lots of alternative choices given a hard time.  I have also seen a fair bit of defence   (and defensiveness) of more mainstream choices.   

 

If you have a problem with a post, flag it.  Jumping to sweeping statements about MDC does not seem helpful.

 

________________

 

Many people have a profession they distrust.  Car Salesmen, mechanics, lawyers, insurance, etc.  They often have their own reasons.  It is not really our place to judge if their distrust is legitimate or not (although I do think general discussion on how trust is earned, what role and weight different things (such as media) play, etc, can be helpful as long as it doesn't turn into attacking someone for their belief system).   Why would or should medicine be any different?  Moreover (and wrt to medicine specifically) as long as their distrust is not placing their child in jeopardy, it is none of my business.  

post #98 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by pickle18 View Post

I feel like this thread is getting waaaay OT (which was "what does it mean when someone says they trust their doctor") and into straight doctor bashing.  

 

I am following a long both as member of the discussion but also with an eye for OT and UVA as a moderator. I don't think the topic is too off track - each post seems to go towards doctor trust or "following doctors' advice". Flag if you have some concerns rather than taking to the thread because a debate over whether a post is OT IS OT, if ya feel me. orngbiggrin.gif

 

Though I don't relate to a huge and general distrust with doctors on all subjects, I think MDC is and should be a safe place for those folks who feel that way. If my life experiences created a necessity for that much caution for a profession that folks should and may need to trust, those folks need support and a place to talk about that. If it's within the user agreement, it's OK and is on topic. 

 

That said, I am asking for one edit for less inflammatory language. 

post #99 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

"Bashing" is saying things like "I know one (or two) doctors who give bad advice about breastfeeding; therefore, I conclude and state as fact that doctors don't know anything about breastfeeding".  That kind of extrapolation is absurd.  I encountered one terrible lactation consultant.  Should I be posting unqualified statements that lactation consultants don't care about babies?

While you and I may not feel that life experience is a good enough reason to paint most/all doctors with a broad brush, many people make decisions based on their own personal experiences. You are welcome to share why you feel that there may be better ways to establish trust in doctors than personal experience, debating whether a member is bashing or not is OT. 

post #100 of 198

Ok, maybe it is just me, and that's fine.  Carry on!  I just feel like some people seem to be far less forgiving of doctors than midwives or, as chickabiddy mentioned, lactation consultants, for example.  I think there is an "evil empire" thing going on with mainstream medicine for some people that rivals mainstream medicine's condemnation of "crunchier" practices.  kathymuggle - you may be right, maybe people do bash those things on here, but I haven't seen much of it.  Plus, doing so is often explicitly against the UA in those forums.  I just find these generalizations dangerous and unhelpful, but I suppose people are entitled to their own extrapolations. 

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