How safe does our bike setup need to be? How can I make it safest?

[amberskyfire]

My husband may be getting a job on Kwajalein, a tiny military base island in the Marshall islands. I really don't want to go, but we might, so I'm trying to wrap my head around how we might be able to do this before we find out. (Please don't make us go! )

The island is TINY! You can walk from one end to the other in minutes. There are no cars (except a handful of official vehicles). Everyone rides bicycles. I have a 4 y/o and an 8 m/o. How would you do this most safely? I was thinking that since there isn't far to go and we would be going very slowly and with no cars around, I could just put both kids into a bike trailer and pull it behind me. Not sure how I would do that, though, since my son is still a baby and won't fit a helmet. Can I just put him in a bike trailer anyway if we are going very slowly and there is no traffic anywhere and there's never far to ride? We would have to ride to the mess hall maybe three times a day for meals, to the store and to the beach and no trip would ever be more than 1/2 a mile.

I had considered putting my son in a car seat in the trailer and have my daughter ride a bike with her helmet, but she is a terrible rider and a biiiiig complainer about riding, so I don't see that as a feasible option, either.

Thanks!

[LightForest]

It is tricky to figure out a feasible bike solution for a little babe. But since the island doesn't have car traffic, I'm thinking your primary safety issue would be the bumpiness of the roads (those bumps are dangerously jarring to a little baby with a big/wobbly head). In a situation like yours, I'd honestly attach a car seat securely inside a bike trailer. There are definitely, obviously safety issues to consider, but that's the choice I'd personally make.

I've also seen hammock-like seats for young babies - these are made to fit in some European style bike trailers and cargo bikes. But if you don't have one of these particular brands of bikes/trailers then the baby seat wouldn't be very useful. I don't know how useful they'd be for a baby as old as 8 months anyway. He's sitting on his own by now and will very soon be able to wear a helmet and fit in normal seat in a bike trailer.

My last thought: if the walk will never be more than a half mile, then it may just be easier to put the kids in a jogging stroller (something with big air filled tires to take bumps, as I assume there are few sidewalks there, and something with a big basket underneath for hauling home sundries). I have a fancy schmancy cargo bike for transporting my kiddo, but if our outing takes us only a half mile from home I NEVER use the bike. I find it easier to use a stroller instead.

[Erin77]

I started putting my son in the rear bike seat (not trailer) when he was a year old, that was the youngest the toddler helmet was approved for. So if he's 8 months old, that's not long! I'd use a jogging stroller til then, then after that either a bike trailer for both or a bike seat for the baby and have your daughter ride her own. Her complaining would probably taper off when she got used to it. Half a mile is really not far, I even used to walk that with my son in his Ergo at that age, you just get used to it (we moved to Hawaii and my husband took the car every day, so I walked everywhere.) I know lots of people who go to the Marshall Islands, btw, and it sounds like a neat opportunity! I hope you like it, if you end up going. 

[DahliaRW]

I would probably invest in a bakfiets (type of cargo bike).  http://bakfiets.nl/eng/ You can put your 8mo in his car seat in the box part (it looks like they even make an infant car seat adapter for it if you wan tot be super safe) and your 4yo can ride in it too.  Or you can get a trail a bike and hook it to the back fo the bakfiets for your 4yo (http://www.trail-a-bike.com/) if you need space for baby and cargo.   

[amberskyfire]

Thanks, everyone! Yes, I thought about a bakfiets, but it would be a huge waste. Bicycles literally dissolve in the islands. I could never afford to buy a new bakfiets every year or so. I also considered getting a pedal car, but I think it would be too expensive as well.

I've never really seen a jogging stroller. Can you get umbrellas for them for the rain?
 

[amberskyfire]

WHOA! While I was Googling family bikes, I found this rickshaw. How awesome would this be?!

http://www.aokbike.com/images/tricycle/Adult%20Tricycle/ATS-011R.jpg

[Fillyjonk]

Can I ask a really, really dumb question? If its a half mile distance you are talking about, why not just walk? What would you need a bike for? Certainly, til your girl is older and your baby can wear a helmet, what's the problem with walking everywhere?

I have to say if the island has no traffic I would not worry overmuch about the wearing of helmets. The reason me and my kids wear helmets is a. we go pretty fast and b. the older two do ride on the road, and the youngest usually is on a seat on my bike. So there is a real danger on impact. On a trailer your baby would be very close to the ground. I'd say if you are happy to use a pushchair on the terrain, a bike trailer should be fine. You won't be speeding about with a trailer attached anyway-they are HEAVY!

Re the rain-uh-waterproofs? We live in a wet, wet place and I've never bothered with umbrellas because the rain always gets in from another angle.

I am sorry if I am missing something, aside from it being a Pacific island where nuclear testing has occured, I don't know too much about the Marshall islands. It seems like a tiny distance and either a bike with a trailer or a pushchair or a sling would all be fine. Um-why are bikes dissolving? That's an unusual thing for a bike to do. 

[LightForest]

Originally Posted by amberskyfire 

Thanks, everyone! Yes, I thought about a bakfiets, but it would be a huge waste. Bicycles literally dissolve in the islands. I could never afford to buy a new bakfiets every year or so. I also considered getting a pedal car, but I think it would be too expensive as well.

Yes I agree that a bakfiets wouldn't be worth the expense. On top of the price, they (well, mine at least) would be rather bumpy to ride on uneven terrain like dirt roads or whatever (again I'm just assuming there aren't nicely paved roads there for riding?). I wouldn't want to subject a kid under age two to those types of bumps. If going the bike route I'd probably choose a very cheap mountain bike and cheaper bike trailer with good shocks and a lot of head/leg room for the 4 year old.

A child bike seat (attached to the front or rear of you on your bike frame) and a tagalong bike (attached to the back of your bike) would also be an option. The 4 year old wouldn't have to pedal if she didn't want to. But you mentioned rain protection -- and this option isn't going to give you any protection from the elements at all. A bike trailer with a good, waterproof cover (and/or waterproofed seams) would be the best way to keep both kids dry while biking, I think.

I've never really seen a jogging stroller. Can you get umbrellas for them for the rain?

Jogging strollers definitely do have rain covers. Just as with any other stroller, some are fantastic and some are lousy. Sometimes the cover comes with the stroller and sometimes you have to pay a ton extra. Not to sound like a commercial (I promise I have no affiliation with the company!), but my jogging stroller's rain cover is absolutely awesome, and it came with the stroller. I have a Joovy Zoom 360. I highly recommend this one! Its cover is roomy enough that my 2.5 year old still has tons of leg room with the cover on. And the cover has a huge front window - in crummy weather I leave the cover on and lift her into the stroller seat through this window. The cover is also great because it contains anything that she drops, keeping blankies/snacks/toys from falling on the ground.

http://www.joovy.com/p-63-zoom-360-jogging-stroller.aspx

The jogging style of stroller is also SO EASY to push with one hand, which means that you can use your other hand to hold an umbrella over yourself, hold your older child's hand, etc.

If your 4 year old isn't into walking you might attach a wheelie board to the stroller, so that she has a hop on/hop off option.

[amberskyfire]

Originally Posted by LightForest 

Yes I agree that a bakfiets wouldn't be worth the expense. On top of the price, they (well, mine at least) would be rather bumpy to ride on uneven terrain like dirt roads or whatever (again I'm just assuming there aren't nicely paved roads there for riding?). I wouldn't want to subject a kid under age two to those types of bumps. If going the bike route I'd probably choose a very cheap mountain bike and cheaper bike trailer with good shocks and a lot of head/leg room for the 4 year old.

Jogging strollers definitely do have rain covers. Just as with any other stroller, some are fantastic and some are lousy. Sometimes the cover comes with the stroller and sometimes you have to pay a ton extra. Not to sound like a commercial (I promise I have no affiliation with the company!), but my jogging stroller's rain cover is absolutely awesome, and it came with the stroller. I have a Joovy Zoom 360. I highly recommend this one! Its cover is roomy enough that my 2.5 year old still has tons of leg room with the cover on. And the cover has a huge front window - in crummy weather I leave the cover on and lift her into the stroller seat through this window. The cover is also great because it contains anything that she drops, keeping blankies/snacks/toys from falling on the ground.

http://www.joovy.com/p-63-zoom-360-jogging-stroller.aspx

The jogging style of stroller is also SO EASY to push with one hand, which means that you can use your other hand to hold an umbrella over yourself, hold your older child's hand, etc.

If your 4 year old isn't into walking you might attach a wheelie board to the stroller, so that she has a hop on/hop off option.

I think everything is nice, smooth paved blacktop streets everywhere from all of the photos I have seen. I like that stroller! Where can I find a wheelie attachment for it?

Originally Posted by Fillyjonk 

Can I ask a really, really dumb question? If its a half mile distance you are talking about, why not just walk? What would you need a bike for? Certainly, til your girl is older and your baby can wear a helmet, what's the problem with walking everywhere?

I am sorry if I am missing something, aside from it being a Pacific island where nuclear testing has occured, I don't know too much about the Marshall islands. It seems like a tiny distance and either a bike with a trailer or a pushchair or a sling would all be fine. Um-why are bikes dissolving? That's an unusual thing for a bike to do. 

Thanks! I would rather not walk because it is VERY hot because the sun is directly overhead and I'll have to carry a lot of gear for the beach and being out in general, not to mention I'll be carrying the baby. I would rather get where I'm going in 1/4 the time with a breeze than baking miserably in the sun all the way. At least a stroller would speed us up a bit and take the weight off of me. A bike would get us to the water or indoors fastest.

The salty air dissolves the bikes into rust faster than you can keep up with, so bikes are usually one-speed and replaced regularly. They just won't last. Our bike trailer has an aluminum frame, at least.

Looks like I'll probably do a stroller until the baby fits well in the bike trailer. Then I can tow the kids.Hopefully we won't decide to go at all and I'll have worried for nothing! :)

[LightForest]

Originally Posted by amberskyfire 

I think everything is nice, smooth paved blacktop streets everywhere from all of the photos I have seen. I like that stroller! Where can I find a wheelie attachment for it?

The thing to look for is a "stroller board." A number of different companies make them. I don't know of one that fits the Joovy jogging stroller, but I recommend that you call their customer service to ask if they can recommend anything. Seriously, their customer service is awesome so it might be a good place to begin.

Considering you'd be riding on blacktop, forget what I said about bumpiness being a huge issue. Smooth blacktop on a tiny island without cars? Dang, I'd not bat an eyelash at putting a baby in there with a 4-year old, as long as the baby's old enough to sit up very very well. I'd probably invest in something like this option:

http://www.burley.com/home/bur/page_98_21

It's a snuggler type thing made by Burley to fit in their bike trailers.

[amberskyfire]

Originally Posted by LightForest 

The thing to look for is a "stroller board." A number of different companies make them. I don't know of one that fits the Joovy jogging stroller, but I recommend that you call their customer service to ask if they can recommend anything. Seriously, their customer service is awesome so it might be a good place to begin.

Considering you'd be riding on blacktop, forget what I said about bumpiness being a huge issue. Smooth blacktop on a tiny island without cars? Dang, I'd not bat an eyelash at putting a baby in there with a 4-year old, as long as the baby's old enough to sit up very very well. I'd probably invest in something like this option:

http://www.burley.com/home/bur/page_98_21

It's a snuggler type thing made by Burley to fit in their bike trailers.

That baby snuggler really looks like the way the seats and belts in the baby trailer are already. My one issue is that there is no chest clip on it (on the snuggler or the bike trailer seat) so the baby can slump forward out of the straps if he bends over. Now that I think about it, I could probably solve this whole issue by just removing the chest clip from our old car seat and putting it on the bike trailer straps. Obviously this would not be anything that would save him in an accident, but it would keep him from slumping forward. He would still need a helmet. But if I'm not going to be going more than a few miles an hour, maybe I won't need the helmets at all. I surely won't be riding much faster than I'd be going if I were pushing a stroller while jogging.

Hmm...

[amberskyfire]

And UGH. They just contacted my husband and showed interest and want to talk to him some more about the job.

[quantumleap]

I know this is not an acceptable thing to say on here, and the safety monsters are going to come eat me in my sleep, but, I really, really don't think you need to worry about helmets. Really. Get a trailer with a 5pt harness (or do your chest clip thing - it doesn't need to hold up to car accident impact, it only needs to hold the kid in place in the extremely unlikely event that you flip the trailer or bonk into something), and a roll bar and call it good. We have a Chariot, and I never put helmets on my kids in it. And we've been using it since they were about 7 months old. I worry about head control, but once they're solid there, I buckle them in and get on with life. You can get inserts that add wings beside their head too, which might help with your head flopping concerns. Ours has a suspension system, but I have read studies that debunk the whole shaken baby issue with bike trailers that don't have a suspension system too. I'll see if I can dig one up and link it here. 

If this is going to be your primary method of transportation, I'd also be really, really tempted to do the bike seat and trail-a-bike set up in addition to having the trailer. Trailer would be nice for nasty weather, but the seat and the trail-a-bike mean that you have better access to your baby, and your 4 year old has the option of being more involved in things. We have a wee ride (http://www.costco.ca/WeeRide%E2%84%A2-Kangaroo-Ltd.-Front-Centre-mount-Child-Carrier.product.10325304.html ours is not this exact model, but you get the picture), that requires one screw to put on and off. It's not a requires a screwdriver screw either, it's got this nice big easily twistable knob. You install the bar on your bike, and then put on or take off the seat as you need. So, you could just have the bar on there all the time, and then use the seat as you want without being stuck with it 24/7. 

Sorry you're not loving the idea of a move to these Islands. It actually sounds really cool to me! I'm assuming it's a temporary posting though...

[LightForest]

I think the snuggler thingey lets younger babies sit in a more reclined positioned? I really don't know - wonder if there are any photos of it being used online?..... There might at least be some user reviews on amazon or something... I think the Burley bike trailer seat is more of a bench then a bucket type seat, if that makes sense, so the snuggler looks like it would cradle the baby better... I agree that a chest clip would be a nice addition to keep the straps from slipping off the shoulders.

[amberskyfire]

Mahalo!

 Quantumleap, I am moving there from Hawaii, so it is a huge step DOWN. I would be excited if I were moving here from some place cold or miserable, but I'm living it up in paradise and am sad to lose it. Also, I have been here seven years and finally made some close friends and started projects here. I'm heartbroken at the idea of moving away. On top of it, my best friend is expecting a baby in February. She was here to take video of my daughter being born. I don't want to miss her birth. :(

LightForest, the bike trailer I have right now has hanging hammock seats. There are two. The one I have is an older model InStep, but it basically looks exactly like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/InStep-Quick-Bicycle-Trailer-Blue/dp/B00006JHVN/ref=sr_1_20?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1354168465&sr=1-20&keywords=bicycle+trailer+instep

It has a metal frame, but no roll bar. Honestly, I can't imagine what I'd have to do to roll this thing. It would have to be some pretty serious stunt biking! You can't even push the bike over when it's hooked up. The trailer holds the bicycle up all by itself. It's pretty wide at the base and sits low to the ground which makes it hard to tip over. If I were going to be concerned, it would be that someone on another bike might run into the kids back there somehow.

[KwajBob]

Amberskyfire,

I just found your thread while searching for stuff related to "Kwaj" and "Kwajalein".  The other members have given you some great advice on the bicycling situation, but I would like to tell you a little bit about Kwaj itself.  Although you may be leaving paradise, you'll be arriving on an incredible new paradise.  I lived there for two years and my experience was so compelling that I created a website as a dedication to my stay and to raise awareness of the unbelievable opportunities that await people there.  It's called Kwaj-Net and strongly encourage you to visit the site as well as the sister site on Facebook: http://facebook.com/KwajNet

We have an awesome membership of Kwaj-Netters!  They are made of people formerly or currently on-island or who are seeking information about life/jobs on Kwaj. I firmly believe that when you start interacting with the membership that you will find your fears fading away very quickly and they will actually change to excitement. When you get on-island you will make friends very quickly, if you are the social type.  There are always beach and house parties going on.  Teens are readily available to baby sit.  The island is small, but it's not as tiny as you perceive. All of the places that you NEED to go to are within a ten minute bike ride, but it will take you a little over an hour to bike from tip to tip at a casual pace.

In addition to getting vast information from the Kwaj-Netters, I encourage you to find out what Kwaj-Net is all about.  You can learn more from our first blog post here: http://kwaj-net.blogspot.com/2012/04/inaugural-kwaj-net-blog-post.html ...and don't hesitate to email me directly if you have any questions: [e-mail]

I wish you the best in your new journey.  I strongly believe you will like your new paradise. 

Thanks and best regards,

Bob Raymond

Kwaj-Net Founder and Sr. Administrator

[amberskyfire]

Thanks, KwajBob! I'll check it out.

I know Kwaj is still paradise, I just don't want to move from here. I have friends, my kids have friends, I'm in love with my gorgeous house, I have so many projects here within the community that I'm passionate about. I wanted to pursue midwifery. I can't be a midwife on Kwaj. You can't give birth there. :( Plus, it's incredibly expensive to leave the island and I don't know how we would be able to afford to take the kids to see family. I hear the price of a ticket to Honolulu last year was $2000 per person! Yikes! And then another $1000 to get each of us to Texas to see grandparents. I eat a special diet and don't think I can get all organic food on Kwaj. I need so many things fresh that I doubt I'll be able to get there. I'm assuming it's all or mostly conventionally grown foods. My kids are unschooled which the school system on Kwaj does not allow. I'm claustrophobic and Kwaj is so small. It's hard enough not to get island fever here on the BI. Also, I make handmade toys to sell for a living and I can't do that from a place where the mail back to the mainland is spotty at best. My clients need their packages guaranteed within a week for birthdays and Christmas and the like.

It's just a huge shift that would turn our lives upside down. I don't want to give up every single aspect of my lifestyle. I moved to Hawaii because this is where I wanted to raise my children. It would be giving up my life's dream...all for a job. And not even a well-paying one.

Anyway, I'm derailing the topic now. I'll head over and read up on the community and wait patiently to see if hubs got the job out there. *crossing my fingers he doesn't!* They emailed him AGAIN today asking for more info. :(
 

[kwajkid]

I grew up on Kwaj. You'll probably start receiving lots of posts from Kwaj kids. Once you've lived there you are forever changed. We are one big family. You may consider Hawaii paradise but that's because Leaj is Heaven. You need to take a big breath and relax. Your bike issues will all be solved when you arrive. You get loaner bikes. You go to Macy's West and buy a bike and lock. The lock is cuz people borrow- lol. Nobody steals. You will have people greet you and show you around. You are embarking on one of the best times of your life. If I could trade places, I would in a heartbeat. You need to go on Facebook and talk to more of us.

[kwajkid]

Wow, just saw your reply to kwajnet. You have a lot of unfounded worries. Your company pays for you to travel stateside every year. The Mac flight is for military families. You have very little expenses on island. The school system is awesome. The testing scores and number of kids who go on to top colleges will demonstrate that. I graduated w 29. You get way more individual attention than you want as a kid. Lol back in the old days fresh food was not as frequent but this is not a third world island. You need to wait and pray that your hubby does get the job cuz there are a lot of advantages you are unaware . If u r interested in midwifery, Ebeye, the neighboring island with the Marshallese deliver plenty of babies. The mail service is efficient.

[amberskyfire]

I don't want my kids in a school system, though. I mean, if I lived a conventional lifestyle, life on Kwaj would be amazing. I don't. I live a natural lifestyle and do natural and attachment parenting. I unschool my kids. The school system on Kwaj will not allow me to unschool my children. See, it's a WHOLE different world for us and someone living a conventional lifestyle can't quite understand how difficult it would be for someone who is trying to completely stay away from all of that to be forced into it.

That is what this website - Mothering - is all about. Natural parenting. Which, of course, is not leading conventional lifestyles most of the time.

I know Kwaj has fresh food. I want 100% organic food. I eat an organic diet. I don't eat foods grown with pesticides. I don't eat GMO. Kwaj isn't a third-world country, but it is definitely overly-conventionalized. I understand all of this is to make life comfortable for those who live there, but since I'm against that kind of lifestyle, that's why it would be so hard for US.

We'll survive. It's just not how I want to live.

Delivering on Ebeye would be GREAT! :) I'd have to learn the language. Not sure if I'd need a license to practice there or anything. We'll see.

I have heard that mail service there is awful from those that live there. Some say up to 11 weeks to get mail, most say it's about one to two weeks.

Dunno. Anyway, I'm reading KwajNet now! :)