What would you smart mamas do? « Back to Group Discussions

[hotsauce]

I know I have hardly been a presence here but I lurk almost every day.  I share a due date with Kel, so I initially found myself bouncing between the December and January groups but over time just felt more 'drawn' to the women here in the December group, so here I lurk although I haven't really felt like 'part' of it.  But now I need advice...  

So I want a VBAC.  My first c-section happened after 20 hours of laboring at home with a midwife who intervened as much as possible.  As far as I can tell, things went wrong after my body started pushing.  She felt a lip and attempted to force it out of the way.  I bled, I screamed, I kept pushing for two plus hours.  Eventually, I told my ex-husband that I needed to know what was wrong because bleeding like that didn't seem normal and the midwife had literally given up on me.  She said, 'You push like a freight train, I have no idea why he isn't coming out.  He must be a really big baby." She left me alone and went to sit on the couch while I kept trying to have my baby.  At the hospital they said I was swollen and about to tear my cervix and despite my wishes the only option was a c-section.  

Five and a half years later, baby number two, my options are to drive to a birth center thirty minutes away to have baby with a midwife in a place I'm not super comfortable, show up to my local hospital while I'm in labor and refuse a c-section, thereby going against their 'ban' on VBAC, or to stay home and have baby unassisted.  There are no local midwives I want attending my birth and the one I found in Kansas City whose philosophy I love says she's new to midwifery and isn't comfortable attending a VBAC.  I just want to stay home while in labor and have the experience I want but either way there are obstacles.  What would you do?  Is it better to drive the distance to have the baby at the birth center or to be in my own environment until the last minute and have to fight the hospital?  Neither is ideal  I'm 35 weeks and still undecided, especially after reading so many beautiful unassisted stories.  The idea of staying home and trying to give birth alone without interference is so tempting, but is it also stupid?  

I'm very averse to the idea of driving to the birth center in part because I know women who have been turned away, told to 'go home and come back later', or ended up laboring in a parking lot because they didn't want to drive back and forth.  A good friend of mine told me they made her feel like she was an 'inconvenience.'  Part of me things if I stay home and labor til I'm about to push, I could theoretically just show up to the hospital with a refusal to consent to surgery in hand and inconvenience the hospital staff instead.  I would at least get to be in my own bathtub/home environment until the end.   VBAC bans only exist because we aren't pushing hard enough and demanding those options, so I kinda feel like F the hospital and their 'policy'.  Ugh.  It's all so political and complicated.  Any advice?  

[Millie Ivy]

Could you plan on birthing at home alone, knowing that the hospital is close by for a true emergency?  Are they close enough? 

I'd probably plan for an UC, and be ok with having to go in and fight if I felt it was truly necessary at the last minute.  But I'm pretty ornery these days, and I have had good homebirth experiences previously.  (I've also had a hellish hospital experience.  the combination makes me pretty feisty at this point when it comes to doing what I want.)

[hotsauce]

Very close.  Two blocks away from my front door.  It's the same hospital where I had my c-section and the staff was actually very respectful and attentive despite my not being a patient of theirs.  The other thing is that I'm due beginning of January in the midwest so if the weather/roads are bad the very last thing I want to do is leave for the birth center too soon and end up laboring in the hall/the car/the nearest Target.  The birth center only has two birthing rooms and I'm not sure how many women may be due around that time.  

Would it be a horrible idea to pre-register but not sign anything at the hospital and then show up saying we had planned on birthing at the birth center but waited too long to get there.  Play dumb about their no-VBAC policy?  I know they can't refuse to admit me if I'm in active labor, and I know they can't force me to have surgery without my consent.  I just wonder what the best route is at this point.

[Harmony96]

Did you ever get the urge to push with your first baby, or were you just pushing b/c that MW said it was "time"? With my DD, I had a textbook labor and delivery, Text. Book. It was crazy. But then with DS, I was walking around at a 9/10, but he was in a weird position so he never did drop into the birth canal until about 10 minutes before he was born. He was low, but he was low in front, and he had to come up and back and then back down before he could be born. My midwives had me do gentle pushes, and also lift my belly up and back during contractions. I didn't feel the urge to push. Then, later, I was actually flat on my back in bed and DS VERY suddenly moved down and was crowning. It hurt, and I was like "Aaah what's this new random pain?" They were all calm and said, "That's the baby. He's right there, ready to be born." woohoo! So I pushed him out.

[newCTmama]

Another everyday-reader-less-often-poster here! Tossing out the option of laboring at a hotel room nearby the birth center... this is what I did with DS's labor 5 years ago - showed up at the birth center (which was 1 1/4 hrs away) after beginning abor with lots of bleeding and no contrax (they started in the car) - they checked me, DH & I went next door and walked, did Bradley stuff & used the shower for an hour or two! W/in a few hours, I was ready to head back over and had dialated quite a bit : )

[mamadiamond]

with a hospital so close for any emergency situation (heck, you could even call 911 if something went wrong and they'd come to you if the roads are bad - all EMS techs are trained in emergency childbirth) i would labor at home. like you said, the hospital can't refuse to admit you, and can't force you into a c-section, so laboring at home where you are comfortable and having them as a backup or planning to show up only when it's time to push seems like a pretty safe bet. you'd just need to make sure your dh or labor support person was prepared to help back you up at the hospital since mid-labor is a crummy time to have to fight the system.

as far as dilation/pushing goes, a lot of women have a lip that goes away on its own it just takes a little longer. your MW messing with it might have been what caused the swelling to start with and then the swelling made it too hard for the baby to come out. since you know your cervix might be touchy, that would be another thing if you end up at the hospital to make sure you don't have someone yelling "push!" at you. patience and gentle pushes can be a lot more effective, and easier on the cervix, but it's one more thing to prepare to fight for in a hospital situation.

[Mamabeakley]

It sounds to me like what you really need is not advice , but discernment. All the possibilities you suggest sound totally viable; but what matters is what you are going to feel safest and most comfortable with. I don't know which option that's going to be or why.

How do you really feel about laboring without a medical care provider on hand?

[mamaharrison]

What would YOU smart mama do? I understand you are looking for support and guidance and hearing more stories and opinions may or may not help you in your quest for that, but ultimately YOU get to make the decision and only YOU can know what is truly right for you and baby! I think you already know what is right for you and if you feel like you still need convincing then look inward--chat with your babe--meditate with your self and trust yourself to guide you to your highest good. you are a wise woman ; ) and no one cares more for you and your babe than you do! So, lots of great suggestions above, but remember above all else to trust yourself and go with your own wisdom <333333

[hotsauce]

Harmony~  Yes, I was standing in my bathtub with a confused look on my face while my mom said, in a matter of fact sort of way, 'You're pushing.'  It was involuntary and powerful, and no matter how many times they told me to try not to push, I couldn't control it at all.  I felt very much like I was witnessing rather than controlling my labor, and I remember being kinda shocked at how the pushing just 'happened'.  I thought you had to try.  

Mamadiamond~  I do think I might have a touchy cervix so this time I want to be left alone as much as possible.  I have read of mw's having success gently holding back a lip, but honestly I would rather try multiple positions to get baby's head in the right place than go through that again.  It was the worst part of the whole experience, c-section included.  I plan to appoint my DP as my power of attorney so that he can make decisions for me if we end up at the hospital.  We also plan to cross out and initial everything on the consent form we don't agree with.  I have a feeling that it's not the staff that's against VBAC, or even most of the doctors.  It's just 'policy', so my hope is that if we make it clear that we are informed and know our risks and rights, they'll just assist me rather than try to bully me into another section.  I've heard absolute horror stories, though, so the hospital route feels inherently risky.

Mamabeakley, you are absolutely correct.  I feel like, because it was my medical professional who bullied me last time, the safest place for me to be during labor is alone.  I was alone in the bath most of my labor last time.  The problems began with her medical-minded interventions and ultimatums.  'If you don't progress x amount in half an hour, I'm going to transfer you.'  'You can either let me break your water or I'm going to transfer you.'  etc.  I dream of being in my bath alone with music, walking around the neighborhood, having my DP massage me while I curl up with a heating pad on my own bed.  The part I'm unsure about and the only part I want a professional around for is the pushing stage, because I've never experienced successfully pushing a baby out and my partner wouldn't have any idea what to look for or do if something went wrong.  

And Mamaharrison, you are also totally correct.  I am processing.  I have a lot of old trauma crap and have avoided dealing with the realities of this birth for too long, but as the end approaches I have to really weigh the pros and cons of every choice and it truly helps to hear other mamas tell me these options are GOOD options, and that I'm not selfish and 'putting my baby at risk' if I try to VBAC at home alone, or irresponsible for just showing up at the hospital in active labor.  The birth center isn't too far, but in all honesty hearing tales of how one of the midwives there is fond of pushing back cervical lips has me kind of freaked.  I am trying to find a delicate balance.  I want to trust birth, protect myself from harm, be able to be vulnerable in those moments while simultaneously being an empowered warrior goddess woman.  It's a tall order.  I just feel like it's b.s. that in order to have the 'safety net' of modern medicine I have to fight or submit to an unnecessary surgery. I do believe I would be most safe having a VBAC in a hospital, so I feel a bit forced to compromise because in order to do that I have to crash their party and go up against an unreasonable hospital policy.  I'm trying to carve out my own way when it seems there is no obvious way.  I wish all women could have these dreamy births where they are surrounded by love and positivity...My experience is more like roadblocks at every turn.  

[cieloazul]

Hotsauce, you ARE an empowered warrior goddess woman. YOU ARE! It can feel so out of control not to know what your birth is going to look like and even more so when some of the options are troubling to you. IME labor and birth is one big lesson in letting go of control and trusting...our bodies, our partners and birth support people, and our surroundings. So you're doing good work here to sift through your past experiences and your present fears. I believe in you and in your body and hold the highest vision of a warrior goddess birth for you, wherever that may take place. xoxo

[mamaharrison]

SO, based on what you said, it sounds like you know thaat you would be  most comfortable birthing in the hospital. Since you are so close then labor away at home and show up ready to push. Just know and be prepared for the onslaught. Unfortunately, you will face some drama this way, but it if you have made this decision then you can also make the choice to not be affected by THEIR drama. I made the decision to transfer to a hospital after 60 hours of natural laboring at home. I needed pain management and a nap. I KNEW that they would say and want to do all kinds of things that I was NOT going to consent to and just talked to DH prior {on the car ride} and knew what my boundaries were before I got there. I was NOT having a cesarean. period. baby was fine, I was fine, I was just beyond exhausted and needed pain management to relax and nap and regroup to find the energy to finish the birth. When I got there they tried to read me the riot act--who was this stupic MW who let me labor for so long? My baby MUST be too big for me to birth and I NEEDED a cesarean. I allowed them to do some basic intermittent monitoring--enough to prove that babe and I were not in danger--I consented to a few things that I really wasn't into but at that point I knew that my priority was a vaginal birth. I got the epidural and told them all to leave the room and let me sleep until I was ready to birth--I may have actually kicked the MW out and told her I didn't want to see her again until I was pushing a baby out of my vagina {haha} and they did. 9 hours later--yes, NINE more hours, I was ready. I called everyone in and then pushed my baby out of my vagina and as I did I remember saying to the MW--'guess my baby wasn't too big to come out this way, huh?!' SO....I know it is a totally different scenario for you with the VBAC policy and you will likely get more drama, but my point is that if you walk in READY and you KNOW what you want for yourself and baby then it makes it easier to put them off. the words 'I DO NOT CONSENT' are powerful and if you need to scream them loud enough for everyone to hear then do it. You don't need an IV or a monitor or a cervical check--just tell them to let you birth your baby! lock yourself in the bathroom when you get there. If that is where you feel most comfortable then go there, but know that they aren't going to recevie you well and you aren't going to change that now--its the broken system that you are operating in right now :( but if you do this you may be paving the way for others to not have the same battles one day--including yourself.

the BC definitely doesn't ssound like an option I would chose--sounds like a med wife and a bunch of veiled hospital protocols. I pushed with a MW hand up my vagina for an hour holding back a lip--I will not let anyone put there hand inside of me again like that--it was brutaal and completely unecessary. 

[hotsauce]

Just wanted to say that you mamas helped me clarify my own feelings on this subject in a way nobody else in my life was able to.  So thank you all. :)

I am going to have one more appointment at the birth center to collect my records and have the Strep B test, but the plan is to labor at home and go to the hospital.  We are hiring a doula to help advocate for me, appointing DP as my power of attorney so he can speak for me in case they try to force a c-section, and pre-registering at the hospital in advance but telling them we have plans to birth elsewhere but just want to cover our bases in case we don't have time to make it. That way they won't be expecting us but it will save us time when we arrive.  I will write 'I do not consent to a c-section' on my stomach in permanent marker if I have to!  

Mamaharrison... What a birth story!  I'm glad you emerged triumphant, but darn, girl.  That sounds rough.  I don't know how you pushed with her hand holding your cervix back.   Brutal is an excellent word for it.  I, for one, tried to kick my midwife in the face while screaming , "No!" and "Stop!".  She literally held me down and told me to be a good girl and let her do her job.  Some people have used the words 'birth rape' to describe what happened to me, and while not wanting to minimize the horrors of rape, it feels appropriate.  What other word describes the feeling of someone shoving their hand in your vagina against your will and refusing to heed when you say to stop?  I felt more violated during my birth then ever before or since.  And this is why informed consent is so, so important.  Had she asked me, told me, I wouldn't have years of post-traumatic issues I've had to wade through.  Thank you for your advice, because it's spot on and exactly what I needed to hear.  I hope this birth is a much easier experience for you and I hope that regardless of the outcome I feel respected this time around.  

[annaka]

Hotsauce, your last post really struck a chord with me. I'm so in awe that you are staying so strong after what you went through with your first. I hope that everything will go the way you want with a happy healthy mom and healthy baby at the end. Also, I don't think that the words 'birth rape' are inappropriate at all. Your story is testament to why we moms try to plan ahead. While we are laboring we are in such a vulnerable state. Thanks for sharing- you have affirmed for me why I am striving to avoid a c/s.

[mamaharrison]

I am so incredibly happy to hear that you have some needed clarity on this and that we were able to offer you some support in this! It is so important to KNOW that you are supported and that you are cared for at all times--even when it is from mamas who may be miles and miles away from you physically. It helps to be able to think in your heart and in your head during those tough times that there are others who understand and who have heard your hopes and fears and stand behind you~~and this community DOES! 

I am so sad that you experienced such brutality in your first birthing time and suffered the consequences afterwards--i definitely had PTSD after birthing my DD, too, and I was NOT forced down as you were. I allowed the situation--as much as you can without knowing what the consequences for that kind of trauma are, kwim. During that time my water was broken against my wishes and without asking or telling me and I experienced it as a very traumatic violation of my body and my baby. I can only imagine how much worse it may have been.....labeling your experience as birth rape doesn't take away anything from the experience of sexual rape, IMO. It IS another side of the coin of victimization of women and needs to stop!

I just know that your birthing time will be exactly what is meant for you and babe and it is my fondest hope for it to be a journey that heals you inside and out <3 Can't wait to hear all about it!!

love and light <3