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Is being AP a whole pick and choose whatever you want and do away with the rest? - Page 5

post #81 of 137
OK, I am sorry I was posting when you two were posting, so I am NOT trying to get nasty with either of you.

I wish I had some advice... maybe giving a quick explanation would have worked? I don't know it is so much easy to think of things AFTER something happens then when it is happening. What I have noticed with my dd is that she does seem to "NEED" a reason for why I am telling her to do or not do something. I use to just say "Because I am the mom..." kinda things. But when I stepped back and thought Would I like to NOT know why I was asked to do or not do something. I thought, no I would want to know. SO, even if what you really want is for her to just do it! (Cause I so know how that feels) Maybe she is just someone who wants to know why.
My ds#1 is someone who is totally OK with just doing something or not doing something cuz I say so. dd is not like that at all. Ds#2 seems to be leaning towards what my dd needs! (LOL)
I guess what I have been trying with my kids is to treat them in a manner that I want to be treated in, when it comes to respect issues. I mean there are things I get to do cuz I am a grown up and for the most part they are OK with that. But something like an explanation I am ok with giving, because I too would want to know.
Did that make since??

H
post #82 of 137
Makes sense to me. The one thing that drove me nuts that my parents did to me was say "Because I said so". I HATED that with a passion and swore I'd never do it to my child. For the most part I haven't. There has been a time or two that I didn't feel like debating with her but I almost always give her a reason. She may not like the reason and she may think it's lame, but I still give her one.

Sofiamomma, I wish I had some suggestions for you but I have no experience with situations like that. Maybe mamaofthree is right and you can try giving her a real quick explanation.
post #83 of 137
I usually do give my dd an explaination but she a lot of the time questions it and I get to the point where I just say because I said so, ugh. What I'm trying to say is my explanations aren't enough for her. I think she honestly thinks she knows better than me. Which I admire (I want her to be sure of herself) but shit it's frusterating.
post #84 of 137
Quote:
Originally posted by Sofiamomma

Another example: We are in the car, dd2 needs to go to sleep. Dd1 is reading aloud. Dd2 starts to fuss every time dd1 speaks. So I say "You need to stop now, please." I didn't explain. Dd2 didn't any more talking and dd1 is smart enough to figure it out. Besides which she needs to not argue with me every time I ask her to do something or not to. So she keeps reading, because of course she isn't finished. I say "now", she keeps on I say, louder, "Now!", she keeps on and I am livid! I yell "NOW!, Not when you are done, not when you decide, when I say so!" Of course, now the baby is crying because I am yelling. I pull over, get the baby out, calm her down and nurse her, put her back in her car seat and ask dd1 to get out of the car. I tell she may ride home with me in the car if she can mind. I say I do not owe her an explanation every time I ask her to do something. If she needs to know why she can ask me later at an appropriate time. She agrees and the rest of the trip home is uneventful.
I have to tell you, this would have absolutely infuriated me as a child, and gotten a similar result. If my mother couldn't explain to me why I should do something, there was no way on earth I was going to do it. She's smart enough to figure it out? Even so, by refusing to explain it to her you're basically sending the message that your desires are inherently more important than hers. Quite frankly, I think that parents do owe children explanations every time they are asked to do something. If you explain in the majority of the time (and I mean 99 times out of 100) why you want them to do/not to do something, when you shriek that 100th time to "GET OUT OF THE STREET!!" they're much more likely to come running back to you.

About the restauraunt.. that's a tricky situation. Honestly, I think I would have left when she started to cry at the beginning of the evening. I've done it before with my niece and I'll do it again.

Learning to behave in public settings can take a while, but before it can happen the child has to demonstrate an ability and a desire to do so. Social boundaries take more work for some people to learn than others. There was a thread about this either here or in Toddlers a month ago or so.. I'll try to find it for you. At any rate, I would explain that if she can't learn to behave herself in public/social situations that she's going to have to stay out of them for a while.

Wanting to be treated like a grownup but not being aware of social nuances.. yeah, that's pretty much the description of a kid. They all do that. Think back to when you were a child.. didn't it irritate you when someone said "Because I'm the grownup and I said so"? Didn't it puzzle you when you tried to do something you honestly thought was helpful/reasonable and got yelled at for it? This is why so many kids will tell you that grownups make no sense; they behave erratically, they follow a set of rules that are completely foreign, and then they don't even explain those rules, they only tell you that you're wrong.

In short, I think explanations are a reasonable expectation for a child to have, and a fair thing for a parent to do. I don't think it's too much to ask. JMO.
post #85 of 137
I want to comment, although many of the girls have summed up my veiws of this whole thing. The Title 'AP' is kinda silly IMO. I really hate titles. One person may take it as an insult if somone says 'they are not AP' as if you are snubbing them and insinuating they are inferior or not a good parent, so the whole title thing rubs me the wrong way.

That said, I just want to comment on the spanking issue since that seems to the hot topic (I dont CIO and have no comment regaurding BF/weaning). Soooo , I guess my veiws on spanking are pretty much this: Its not the best method but some parents dont know any different. Does this make them bad parents? no. It may make them feel inferior if they have not been able to effectively apply other methods and see others totally puting down spankign as if its a crime. I think we should help these moms instead with thier specific situations instead of judgeing them. Now personally I have been known to spank, not a first resort and yes it has been out of frustration. I hate it! I always try other things first but sometimes I get over frustrated. If one of my kids gets spanked they KNOW why and we always have a talk about it after so they understand. It doesnt make it the best way or even right but sometimes when you have tried everything you cant help but give into frustration. More than anythign if I feel myself getting frustrated I tell my kiddos, "Mommy is getting really frustrated. Why dont you guys (name an activity) and mom is going to go the the bathroom to chill out." I've talked with my kids to discuss what fristration means and that if mommy goes into the bathroom she is not to be disturbed. I cry, I scream I bang my head, but its all in the bathroom where I can get it out safetly and not taking my frustration out on my kids. That certainly doesnt mean I'm perfect, like I said I have been known to spank on occastion. because of that and because I dont know each person's situation or what they have or have not tried I will never look down at parent who spanks. As far as AP, some would consider me AP some would not, I guess it really doesnt matter. I do say I practice some AP but I have a hard time thinking that anyone could totally be completely AP because this is not a perfect world therefore no perfect parent. JMHO.

One more thing I'm adding in, I have a special needs child. And life gets SUPER frustrating here (see current post on SN forum). I think all special needs parents are SAINTS if thier kids make it to thier teen years! LMAO

Now something I posted on another board that I think applies to this:
We as parents try to do whats best for our children. We read, we scour the internet, and we try to connect with other like minded parents. Our lives are focused on our children, everything we do is for our children in one way or another. I like to call this "Parenting in the Baby's Space"
For those who are familiar with what "The Baby Space" means you may have the idea of what I'm referring to. For those who don't, I'll explain... The Baby Space is the special space that we give our child, its the space that centers on them, its the space that they can feel safe in because its 'thier' space. Everyone/baby/child needs 'thier' space, us as parents are responsible for creating and maintaining the "Baby's Space"

So with that definition given I'd like to explain what "Parenting in the Baby's Space" means. You'll see this phrase come up alot! Many Parents practice Attachment Parenting, but perhaps they dont feel they fit in there because they dont follow ALL the 'rules' of AP. I personally love the idea of attachment parenting, I think many if not all the ideas are great and are ideal. But, the truth is, we dont live in a perfect world. I find it hard to follow through on some of these. I have found my children don't always respond well to some of the methods suggested in Attachment Parenting, therefore, I had to come up with my own parenting styles.

After really studying each situation and finding what methods work well for each of my individual children I do what works for them. I feel attached to my children because I 'know' them. I know what they respond to and what the best things are for helping them to learn and succeed in thier lives. I want to emphasise, each of my children are VERY different, as are each of yours. No one way of parenting is the 'right' or 'wrong' way, and there definately is no cookie cutter method that we as parents will fit into. We each find what works best for our children and go with it.

By finding out what works best for our individual child we are essentially parenting in thier space. We are not trying to get them to conform to the ideas we have, we are instead helping them to learn to find thier own uniqueness while still enforcing some basic rules and morals that we believe in. We are not parenting strictly in our space, we have taken our childrens space into consideration. By finding what works for our child we are respecting the fact that they are individuals and deserve the right that no one method is going to fit all children.

This is "Parenting in the Baby's Space". If your 'baby' has grown up some you may want to call it Parenting in the Child's Space .
post #86 of 137
Really? You think children should get an explanation 99 times out of 100? I might go mad if I did that! I've told her many times before that she needs to be quiet when Ellie is falling asleep. It is only for a few minutes. She cries if you talk while she is falling asleep. This baby joined our family long enough ago now, that I think Sophia knows this. I did not want to talk any more than I had to, because I didn't want the baby to cry. Obviously, it totally backfired on me, because I did not control my temper! I just find it very hard to believe that an extremely bright seven year old needs an explanation each and every time.

And the restaurant thing. I know what you mean about leaving and we do do that, but she was not misbehaving with the initial crying. She really was upset. Leaving and telling her it was because she was not behaving appropriately would have been very unfair. It was not until she was hanging on the waitress on not letting go that she was misbehaving.

I do appreciate your input. I need to be more aware of what you are saying about the whole double standard thing. I have a hard time with that, because there are so many times that kids are *not* equal, that I worry that she will not be able to differentiate when I need to be the parent and that is why she needs to mind and when it is okay for a kid to be treated the same.
post #87 of 137
Quote:
Originally posted by asherah
You know, this reminds me of discussions about who is a Christian and who isn't.
Some say you have to take the bible literally, others say you don't.
Some say you have to adhere rigidly to church dogma, others say you don't.
And everyone gets all bent out of shape about it.

AP isn't a religion. And it isn't something concrete and absolute.
And Dr. Sears isn't even the be-all, end-all of it. He's ONE voice. He's not the Pope.

I don't CARE what other people call themselves.
I don't CARE whether people think I am an "ap" mom or not.

I am just interested in doing what seems best for my kid.
So far, the ideas expressed by Dr. Sears, Elizabeth Pantley, Dr. Gordon and the Kabat-Zinns and others have helped me.

But I am not their disciple.
I am not trying to get into some AP heaven by following all the AP rules.
Just trying to be a good parent.

So, if it makes you all feel better.. I won't call myself AP.
And y'all can call yourselves anything you want.
I won't object.
I'm proud and happy if my son someday calls me a good parent.
That's the only label I will ever need.
Ditto.
post #88 of 137
You know what sucks... you want your kids to be independant and you want them to be leaders etc... but then you want them to do what you say without question. I feel the same way. My girlfriends and I crack up about it, "JUST DO WHAT I SAY!!!!" stop questioning me all the time, just do it! But in the end, I almost always give an explination, because I find at least for my dd that it does work best for her/us. Even if I want tosay... "WE all ready talked about this! JUST DO IT!!!!" (:LOL ) I can totally understand the frustration, but when you look back on the experience, I would say... what did you learn? (I don't mean this in a smartassy way...) What can you do different next time? That is what I do when I feel that something went off worse than I was hoping. What can I do different next time to have this not happen again. Like maybe reminding her that while the baby was trying to fall asleep we don't talk. (hind site is always 20/20).

H
post #89 of 137
To answer the OP, spanking is not an expression of attachment. Spanking is hitting, and hitting as a form of control is an act of hate.

To practice attachment is an ongoing discipline of ourselves. When our child is loud, we learn to be quiet. When our child is selfish, we learn to give. To be attached to another person is to practice the art of living in balance with them, where they are at, because we love them. It is learning to trust yourself, and trust the goodness of your child.

To find that balance you have to look. Still your mind. Meditate. Pray. Reflect. Find inroads to attachment~look at baby pictures, artwork done by your child.

Find things which inspire you and go to them often.

It is ongoing.

The quieter you become the more you can hear~ Baba Ram Dass

This--the immediate, everyday, and present experience--is IT, the entire and ultimate point of the existence of a universe~Alan Watts

Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices in the truth.
Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never ends.
Love never fails.~ corinthians
post #90 of 137
Thread Starter 
Beautiful post Heartmama!!!

I am learning so much from all of these posts. I guess I do understand that parents get frustrated and lose it. We are afterall human. ANd humans make mistakes. ANd if we are truely blessed we learn from those mistakes. I just dont like to hear people who do act disrespectful and ungentle and not act regretfully about it. I cant imagine acting anything but gentle with such a small little person and if I so happen to falter ( my ds is only 2 years old so I havent been tested as much as other parents have) I hope that I realize my mistake and try to make it better. And I will remain firm in my beliefs that true attatchment doesnt come from using methods that detach you from your child like spanking, cio, and early weaning.

Let's continue to make this thread respectful, thanks ladies!
post #91 of 137
Quote:
Originally posted by Sofiamomma
Really? You think children should get an explanation 99 times out of 100? I might go mad if I did that!
I haven't forgotten about pm'ing you. I'm having a rough 24 hours!

But about this-- It takes practice. I try my best to always offer an explanation. When I don't, my 6yo knows that I mean business and he trusts that I have a good one. Case in point-- We were driving to Dallas over Easter weekend, 5 hours from here. I was driving by myself with all three kids-- 6, 2, and 3mo. We stopped at a gas station and I let my oldest out to stretch his legs while I pumped gas. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a man walking purposefully toward me. This gas station was not in a well populated area, I could not see another person anywhere. Ds was about fifteen feet away from me. I stopped pumping gas immediately and told my son to get in the car. Now. he asked why and I said, "Just do it." And he did. The man asked me for some money and I did not give it to him because I did not want to pull my wallet out in this situation where I would have no recourse if he tried to take it. He was clearly intoxicated and being belligerent. I drove away with him yelling at me. The point of the story is that in a situation where there was danger, my son could infer from the tone of my voice and my lack of explanation that something was up and I needed him to do what I asked immediately.

This is the same level of trust that I have with my husband. If he tells me firmly to do something, I do it because I trust that he has a good reason that will explained to me later. In many ways, the relationships we have with our children are not different than those we have with our adult family members. After all, that is really what we are helping them to do-- figure out how to have healthy, meaningful relationships with other human beings. We can teach them how to earn love and respect by being agressive and angry, or we can show them how to express themselves to others with respect and understanding.

Now that is the desired outcome. Getting there is hard sometimes. If he asks why, I tell him why to the best of my ability.

Why can't I have ice cream money today? Because we don't have enough money to buy everything we want.

Why do I have to be quiet when my brother can run around and be loud and no one makes him stop? Because he is a baby and doesn't understand us like you do. When you were a baby, you did the same thing and it drove us nuts just like he driving you nuts right now. One day your little sister will drive him nuts, too.

Just a brief explanation usually works. I try to curb longer discussions about "why" by offering an alternative. Sometimes the alternative is to play "the quiet game" or whisper what he wants to say to me in his head if I need him to be quiet for a minute. Choices are an important part of gentle discipline. You can't simply say, "Stop what you are doing." You have to guide the child to help him or her decide what it is that they want to do instead of what you are asking them to NOT do. Sometimes phrasing it in a positive way rather than a negative way helps. Instead of saying, "Stop reading so your sister can sleep," or whatever, you could say, "Let's stop reading while your sister falls asleep. Think about the words in your head, and once she is asleep, you and I can have a special conversation about what you read." Or something like that. Don't say "Why don't you..." because they will always have a reason why. If you need her to be quiet while the baby falls asleep, give her something to do quietly.

This IS a lot of work at first. It takes a while to train yourself to do this, and it will take a while for your child to understand that you always have a reason for asking her to do something. Eventually, you will get to the point where you can say, "I really just need you to do this for me right now and we can talk about it later." I promise. I think it is possible, in the situation that you described, that she does it now simply to get a rise out of you. If you stop giving her what she wants, she will stop. You might have to sit through listening to the baby cry a few times, but eventually it will work.

This is what is so difficult about the alternatives to spanking. They take time. I've had dozens of conversations with parents who spank, some who want to stop and many that did not, and they always ask what they can do instead of spanking. I think that the first step is to just remove spanking from the realm of possibility. Don't make it an option. The next step is developing techniques for dealing with difficult moments with your child. This just takes time. The fact is that there isn't anything out there, aside from interupting the behavior that is undesirable with physical pain, that will get your child to stop what you DON'T want him or her to be doing instantly. All of the alternatives take time to work, especially if you are coming from a place with your child where your initial reaction to perceived misbehavior is anger. It takes time to heal the wounds that are already there, time to correct bad habits in both yourself and your child, and time to see the results of a new way of parenting.

Just to go ahead and make this the longest post ever, I'll tell you about my journey to this place. When my oldest son turned 3, all hell broke loose. The two's were cake for us. He was SO EASY! But, he wasn't verbal and couldn't hear very well. Once that was corrected, he was so hard to deal with all of the sudden. He had this voice that could reason and argue with me, and it drove me insane. One night I got very drunk on the back porch after he went to sleep and cried while my husband sat and looked at me like I was mad. But he admitted that he felt frustrated, too. I talked to some parents I knew that I thought were wonderful parents and asked them how they did it, and this kept coming up-- talk to your kid, listen to your kid, respect your kid. And this was the result of that. Always taking time to explain why, taking time to build trust.

I've seen this stuff work with even the most defiant kids. A group of mamas stepped in to help a mother we saw drowning in our neighborhood. We took turns interacting with her child and showing her how to respond to his outbursts without giving into one ourselves. It helps to have someone show you. If you have a mama friend who, by all outward appearances, is in a good place with her parenting, ask her for help. Seriously, I think most people are more interested in helping than judging (even if they are like me and have to get over themselves first).

My husband is glaring at me so I'd better get off the computer for a while, but I have been thinking about this and didn't want to say "don't spank!" without offering any alternatives.
post #92 of 137
It's true that the "advantage" of spanking is you usually get a result right away. It's the long run that fails you. OTOH, with GD it is usually not right away that you see the results, but later on after much practice and hard work.

Kara, your post reminded me of a book I read called "The Secret of Parenting" by Anthony Wolf. It sounds like something you would get alot out of. He talks about why kids like to prolong conversations - like why should I do this, well dD this is why, but so and so never does it, well we aren't so-and-so's parents....blah blah blah. He talks about how to get your message across and then put a swift end to the procrastination and haggling. Now, some people didn't like this book because it COULD be misinterpreted as not letting your child have a say, but he does stress talking with your kids about incidents LATER, when everybody is more calm and in the mood to listen. I'm thinking that this might be a technique that you can use. I really recommend you read the book. It should be in your library as it's been out for a long time. I have to cut this post short but there was a discussion about this book in GD some time ago...a search might bring it up.
post #93 of 137
Quote:
Originally posted by Mothra
I Case in point-- We were driving to Dallas over Easter weekend, 5 hours from here. I was driving by myself with all three kids-- 6, 2, and 3mo. We stopped at a gas station and I let my oldest out to stretch his legs while I pumped gas. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a man walking purposefully toward me. This gas station was not in a well populated area, I could not see another person anywhere. Ds was about fifteen feet away from me. I stopped pumping gas immediately and told my son to get in the car. Now. he asked why and I said, "Just do it." And he did. The man asked me for some money and I did not give it to him because I did not want to pull my wallet out in this situation where I would have no recourse if he tried to take it. He was clearly intoxicated and being belligerent. I drove away with him yelling at me. The point of the story is that in a situation where there was danger, my son could infer from the tone of my voice and my lack of explanation that something was up and I needed him to do what I asked immediately.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make about the hundreth time. If your child knows that your natural inclination is to offer an explanation, when you suddenly have a reason not to explain immediately they are much more likely to take you seriously. I don't even think it really take more time, in the long run. If you had said "Your sister can't sleep while you're reading, she will cry and stay awake longer. Why don't you read quietly in your head until she falls asleep and then she can talk about it." It would have taken a lot less time than what you ended up doing.

Even though my son is a baby, I explain everything to him. "When you scream instead of using words, Mommy gets frustrated and doesn't want to do anything. Please use your words." "When you bite the nursie, Mommy doesn't want to nurse anymore." And so on and so forth. It's very very difficult for me right now, mostly because I'm pregnant and my fuse is exceptionally short, but I know that he appreciates and understands the explanations I give him. It's very important to me, because I really feel that even at 17 months he is entitled to an explanation for my behavior, even though I find myself saying the same things over and over again. He needs to know that I have a consistant reason for doing the things I do and that I still love him even when I'm frustrated/angry/upset. He's also developing a vocabulary to express his own feelings about things, and that will serve him well in the months and years to come. He can already tell me that he's tired, sad, hungry, hurt, and several other things, and he loves that I can respond to his words quickly and effectively when I can't always respond to his 'wah-wah's' the same way. Yes, he's a very verbal 17 month old, but it's very worthy of note that he's got a better vocabulary for how he's feeling than many 4 and 5 year olds.

Another huge aspect of this for me is choosing your battles. Very often, a child will ask to do something and be told no without any real reason. Who really cares if they wear a pink tutu to school? Will the world end if they blow bubbles in their milk? No, not really. It totally grosses me out sometimes when Eli will eat stale graham crackers that he's hidden in a drawer, but it's not going to hurt him, so why should I make a fuss about it? I try not to argue with him unless it's dangerous or it really is too far for me. Granted, he's 17 months old at this point, but still. It's about setting precedents.

Like this: Eli is very independant. He loves to do things all by himself, and he loves to help out around the house like a big boy, or to do what daddy and mommy are doing. So he wanted to eat his cereal all by himself, holding the spoon. This is, of course, much much much messier than if I feed him, but he's so much happier when he does it himself. I compromised by teaching him to wipe up his place when he's finished eating. I get him a bowl of cereal and (soy)milk, and a spoon, and he eats and is very happy. When he's finished, he gets a burpcloth and wipes up the milk he spilled. He doesn't get things perfectly clean, but he does a very nice job all things considered. I don't have to look at a puddle of milk that I can't bend over to clean up, and he gets to feed himself and feel like a big boy. He also loves cleaning up at this point, because that's something that grownups do, so he gets to feel even better about his place in the world. Mutual satisfaction!
post #94 of 137
Eilonwy (beautiful user name, BTW, I *loved* the Chronicles of Prydain!), I've been thinking about your response and what frustrates me is that you said that would have infuriated you as a child. Doesn't being shushed infuriate you as an adult sometimes, too? And don't you realize that if someone asks you to stop doing something that they have a good reason? I'm just thinking we should be about there by now. Like Mothra was saying her son, at age six, got into the car without an explanation. My dd very likely would not have done that. I've been explaining things since she was very little. Her toddlerhood was a lot like you describe with your son. I was pleased with AP back then. Then she hit three and I was at sea. I kept getting advice to not talk so much, not negotiate, she is becoming a spoiled brat, she thinks she runs the show, has the right to just to whatever she wants, whenever she wants, not take others into consideration, she needs to know who is the parent, parenting is not a democracy.
She's seven now and I don't trust even with all the explanations she has been given over the years that she would mind me without one in a dangerous situation. And I would like to streamline things, conserve some energy. I would like to feel like she trusts that I have some valuable things to offer her, teach her, etc. That if I tell her something I know what I am talking about. That if I ask her to do something I have a good reason.

I think yesterday that if I had said "Please read to yourself now so Ellie can fall asleep" that would have worked much better. I was already irritated by the reading in the first place (she was doing it in a "funny" way) and had been restraining myself because I felt that she was not hurting anything and shouldn't be stopped just because it was bugging me.

I think the history of the relationship I have with her plays a huge role. I am on edge all the time, because I have to always be ready for a fight, kwim? And of course, she is probably got expectations for how I will respond in a given situation. Maybe I can catch her off guard. . .

I can see that a two year old needs an explanation every time, but if I've given explanations for things in the past, is a seven year old really not capable of carrying that information forward to future situations? She is soooo bright I feel like she should be able to do that. She is always "forgetting" stuff and I suspect she often "plays dumb." Did any of you ever do that? If so, do you remember why? Piglet, do you think the book you mentioned addreses that? I have often wondered if it is a way of entangling me in a conversation.

P.S. Mothra, I would *love* to have someone show me how to interact with her. The problem is, well you can see from the advice I've gotten above! My aunt does very well with her, but I've always thought that was partly because she is not me. I've thought about asking for her help.
post #95 of 137
Quote:
Originally posted by Mothra
Sometimes the alternative is to play "the quiet game" or whisper what he wants to say to me in his head if I need him to be quiet for a minute.
Hehe, just had to say I love "the quiet game". I used this one with my daycare kids. With 8 kids aged 5-10 it could get SERIOUSLY rowdy sometimes. The winnner would get 2 "star dollars" which was our daycare money that they could use to purchase stuff out of the treasure chest.
post #96 of 137
Kara, I keep knodding a long every time I read one of your post. I think our daughters were seperated at birth(Shea is also 7). I thought I was a really competent parent (I had never heard the concept of AP at the time) and was doing most everything right. I explained everything to my dd, we had long talks every night before bed after her story, I nursed her still.......then she turned 3 and all hell broke loose. Since then I have almost daily felt like a failure as a parent.
post #97 of 137
I really think the two of you would really get alot out of this book: Raising Your Spirited Child" By Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. MY daughter does sound a lot like your dds. I thought what the heck happened? Did I get the devils child or something. Everything was "fine" and then she turned 3. OMG! I about went mad. What happened to my sweet little girl? She was so much "MORE" to deal with. THen about 18 months ago a friend and I were talking about our dd's and she was telling about how her dd did this and that and fianlly she found that book and it was so helpful. SO i went right to the library checked it out LOVED it and then went out and baught it.
Because my dd is so "more" and I am not is some respects, I just don't get her sometimes. It has taken about 18 months to get to this new level in our realtionship. We work on the new tools everyday, BUT I have noticed we have a lot more days when things are going GREAT then how it use to be. And I find myself much more relaxed then I use to feel.
I have also learned (have 3 kids! :LOL ) that some situations I just choose to avoid... LIke if it is at all possible, I DON"T go shopping with all of them. I found that 1) I am way more stressed so my level of tolerance is really low 2) they just get so excited about being OUT and all the stuff in the store (and we don't even go to regular grocery stores... health food ones!) 3) everyone is happier if we just don't do it that way, plus I do get one on one time with one of them when I just take one out at a time. (SO usually food shopping is a Saturday morning thing!: )

H
post #98 of 137
I've heard that book mentioned several times. I'm gonna see if my Local library has it, if not I'll try to buy it (money very very tight right now)! Is there a website you can suggest with good parenting info for those w/spiritied children. I had one booked marked a couple of years ago but I can't remember what it was.
My dd was a "highneeds" baby too but that I could handle.
post #99 of 137
Quote:
Originally posted by Sofiamomma
Eilonwy (beautiful user name, BTW, I *loved* the Chronicles of Prydain!), I've been thinking about your response and what frustrates me is that you said that would have infuriated you as a child. Doesn't being shushed infuriate you as an adult sometimes, too? And don't you realize that if someone asks you to stop doing something that they have a good reason?
Oh, definately, but I'm rarely shushed irl; people don't even bother doing that to most adults. Children, however... well, the majority of adults seem to think that whatever they have to say is inherently more important than anything a child could say. I couldn't disagree more. What I mean is, I never was willing to tolerate that kind of attitude from adults when I was a child, so I don't expect children to tolerate it from me today.

Yes, I realize that most of the time when someone asks me to stop doing something, they have a good reason, but again I'm rarely asked to stop doing anything. I also find that when I have to ask another adult to stop doing something, I have to stop and explain it a lot of the time even if it's perfectly obvious to me. If you've ever read anything I've posted about my FIL, you'll understand this: he honestly can't see why I don't think it's a reasonable thing for him to tease Eli about his outfits, or to talk with food in his mouth or any number of other things. When I ask him to stop, I inevitably have to explain myself (or DH does). This is a grown man, you'd think he'd know that you shouldn't tease a baby, but he's totally clueless.

It's not that I think a seven year old is incapable of carrying advice forward... it just sounds to me like she doesn't take you seriously ever, and perhaps that's because she doesn't feel like you take *her* seriously. When I was seven and a scary-bright child, I would get absolutely livid when adults felt that it was their perogative to boss me around just because they were adults. Who the heck did they think they were? There were some adults I would never have 'minded' under any circumstances; they didn't take me seriously, so I paid them no attention whatsoever. My mother, however, did explain things all the time. If she had said "get in the car now!" or something like that, I'd have done it because she always explained what was going on.

It's all about patterns. Your daughter seems to have decided, for some reason, that she can't take you seriously in this respect, so her actions reflect that. It's not that she doesn't know or can't remember or that she's faking it, she's just decided that since you don't respect her she won't respect you... So you have to start all over again and try to build that mutual respect. In the meanwhile, she'll need to learn about natural consequences, which requires very little effort on your part (all you'll have to do is point them out).
post #100 of 137
Sheacoby, I may still not know what to do, but at least I know there is someone out there that feels the same way. I have read, and own, Raising Your Spirited Child, How to Listen. . ., Sibling Rivalry, Mindful Parenting, Whole Child Whole Parent, Sears' Discipline Book and their Fussy Baby High Need Child one, and taken a couple of Love and Logic seminars. Love and Logic has a website. They have some wonderful stuff. The downside of it is that it requires some masterminding, which is tough for me to do.

My dd is not capable of playing the "quiet game." : Thank goodness she learned to read or that little smilie down there would still be and not .

Hmmmmm, I *do* get shushed occasionally as an adult. I feel embarrased about it, but I always do it. I have a rather loud voice (as does my dd) and sometimes I don't realize how high my volume has gotten. I've also been asked to stop doing something, like tapping my foot or something like that. Or I am about to spoil a surprise inadvertently or whatever. I can think of lots of instances as an adult where I would need to trust that someone else has a good reason for doing something and asking something of me without an explanation. I always like one, though! But I can wait.

It is interesting what you say about her not taking me seriously or respecting me. I think those things are true, but I am dismayed that you say this is because I don't respect her. I spent the first years of her life explaining, redirecting, offering choices, treating her as though her opinion mattered and the result was a child who thought the world revolved around her and she did not ever have to do what anyone else asked of her or consider anyone else's opinions, feelings etc. unless that is what she wanted. Her ideas were always best, her way is always best, she always has the right answer. I often ask her how she feels about things or what she wants to do, but I rarely get turnabout.

I'm not sure what happened, but last night we went to swimming lessons and she reheated leftovers for herself, got herself dressed and her stuff together, went in on her own, behaved herself during the lesson, played appropriately with her sister afterwards, went right into the locker room and got in the shower, picked up everyone's wet things without being asked, minded the baby for me for a minute, without cranking about it, and carried a bag out to the car without being asked! I was like "Who are you? And what did you do with my daughter!" Seriously, I just tried to act like it was all very normal and the way we always act and nicely showed appreciation.
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