Queer Conceptions: December 2012 - Page 19

[esenbee2]

Didn't have as high of a temp spike as I would have liked to indicate O, but it was a jump. I also woke up about an hour and a half earlier than I usually do and I had thrown the covers off in my sleep and felt a little chill, so that might have contributed. I went back to sleep the best I could without stirring and jumping my temp up. Tested around my normal time and my temp had soared. I know it wasn't 4 hours of sleep between temps, so not sure how to read the high temp.. I feel pretty confident in our timing though. I had a crazy sweat going on when I was trying to get to sleep. Looked it up for others experiencing it too, and it seems like it might be a good indication of ovulation, not really medically explained, but quite of few other TTC women talking about it on the WWW. I never had that happen to me, so who knows!

[mrsandmrs]

esen - based on the 1 previous chart that FF shows, I think your temp spike today is consistent with what your body does when it ovulates. It looks like your timing was perfect. congrats on the swim meet! im sorry your timing was so frustrating this month. i hope your tww is uneventful and productive! how soon do you think you will test?

afm - my friday beta was 669. my clinic wants to do at least 1, maybe 2 more betas. the next is on monday. i dont know that ive ever heard of anyone having so many freaking beta tests. is that common? i guess i'll be ready to graduate when the blood draws are done. it still seems unreal, but my symptoms are profound and the numbers are good so.... i guess it will sink in sometime in the next nine months? 

[pokeyAC]

mrsandmrs-My office also does repeat betas.  They just want to make sure things are progressing ok.  It seems to be just something they do when you have fertility treatments.  When the number reached 10,000 they scheduled an ultrasound.  They gave me the option of doing it so you could probably skip it if it doesn't matter that much to you. So glad the numbers are going up and you are feeling crappy enough to know you are pregnant!  

[Friederike]

Esenbee, that all sounds really promising. I usually find that the temp taken at the usual time is more in line with the rest of my chart even if I had woken up in between.

Mrs- you mentioned taking at least two meds for fertility, so they are probably just extra careful? Nine months, eh; that is so exiting. September is a great month for a birthday.

Afm
Dear internet people, I could use some help with a decision please. DP and I need to order our next swim team tonight before our bank ends their 25% off sale and we're debating how to do things next round to get the best chances. We're doing home IVI insemination with a pre-O ultrasound+hcg trigger.

We could a) buy the double amount of vials and insem twice, b) insem once but with a higher quality [30 million motile instead of the usual 20 mot], c) insem once with the regular 20 mot quality just like last time and safe the extra money for the next try.

I can't find any info whether two insems have higher sucess rate if paired with a trigger, becaus that should pinpoint O date pretty accurately. But I know that in the Brill book - which I don't have - two are recommended. My bank says that 20 mio motile is the recommended quality and should suffice to get sb. pregnant, but maybe the higher the better? The price difference is 320€ vs. 480€. Argh. What would you do?

[mrsandmrs]

pokey - thanks for the reassurance. i guess i didnt realize you had a lot of betas too. i guess most people focus on the first two. they already scheduled a first ultrasound for 5.5 weeks and said i will have ultrasounds every 1-3 weeks for the first tri. is that similar to what you went through, too? 

friederike - yep, i used injectable meds, in addition to progesteron, estrogen and metformin, so i guess they are being overly cautious. september is a great month for a birthday. I love virgos a lot, so i hope that works out for this babe. 

as for 1 vs 2 vials, that is a tough decision. I am not sure that there's one right answer. I think there's enough research to support either approach. my clinic recommended 2 IUIs when i had multiple 'good quality' eggs. up to that point, they recommended 1 per cycle because the increased success rate wasnt worth it with one follicle. 

For me, it was easy to decide to use two vials -- I had TTC-fatigue, I was using expensive medication and I wanted to be done at whatever extra cost. I was already spending so much on monitoring and meds, the extra $600 was insignificant. it was just a gut feeling, although the recommendation from my clinic helped a lot. How long are you going to try IVI without using fertility meds to stimulate? If you're fine trying for a while longer with the low-intervention route, perhaps the higher sperm count would be better than two vials. There is at least anecdotal evidence in this forum that the more sperm, the better. If you're feeling tired with the process, would it be possible for you to do IUIs instead of IVIs since they have a higher success rate? Either way, good luck with your decision. 

Edited by mrsandmrs - 12/30/12 at 5:44am

[Sphinxy]

SanDiego - Ugh, how heartbreaking. Sending lots of to you both. 

Esenbee - Sounds like great timing. Fingers crossed! 

Friederike - I'm with m&m, I think it really differs from person to person. I've chosen two vials per cycle because I haven't had the greatest luck getting clear temps the morning of my ovulation (TTC anxiety), so I can't pinpoint my timing as well as I would like to if I were to use use just one vial. Since life-span can be an issue with frozen and I'm not as confident in my timing, the two insems spaced-out gives me some peace of mind that I've covered my bases. I'm not using meds or triggers though. There is a potential 4th option I think for you, which I'm not necessarily advocating but it's worth considering. If quantity of sperm at the time of insemination is more of your concern than spreading the sperm over a longer period of time, then you could use two vials at the same time, or just a few hours apart, rather than waiting the usual 12-ish hours between insems that Brill recommends. If your bank has a 20 million minimum guarantee, then then this method would get you at least 40 million. Just an idea...

m&m - I'm just so happy for you. It will be great to see you graduated when you are ready. 

Afm, AF arrived last night. It was fun and a bit gut-wrenching to daydream that my terrible insem timing this month could have actually worked. In the end, that was a 38 day cycle and a 15 day luteal phase, longer than any I've recorded previously. It may be just a coincidence but it's easy to start thinking that my body is reacting in some way to the introduction of sperm over the last three months. I will probably O sometime between Jan 14th - 19th. I am determined to get it right this time.

[esenbee2]

friederike - If you would like to do two insems, taking advantage of the 25th anniversary sale, I think I would do a 10 MOT at 12 hours past the trigger and then do a 20 MOT at the normal recommended time after trigger.

[sotohana]

I wish I had some good advice for you, Friederike. From my gut, it would seem to me that you could rely on one vial with a higher motility since you'll be triggering and doing a pre-o ultrasound, which would signal to me that your timing will be really good. Again, this is just based on my gut feeling though. Either way you choose, your choice will be the best for you and I wish you lots of sticky baby dust!

Sphinxy, I hear you on wanting to "get it right this time." I think that can be a seductive type of thinking- that we have control and if it goes right its because of our doing and if it goes wrong that its something we did incorrectly. Yes we have some control, but so much of it is magical happenstance too. Try to take it easy on yourself. I know you did all you could this try. 

AFU- I'm on CD 9 and DW is on CD 5. She started temping this morning and we're really excited to see how her cycle goes now that she's finished her estrogen prescription. It did trigger her period like the Doctor said it would. This month I'll be the one who tries and she will have a monitoring cycle. May I please be moved to Waiting to O? If it doesn't work for me this month, we'll move back to DW next month. It oughtta work one of these months, eh? 

[esenbee2]

sphinxy -so sorry to hear about AF. It gets really heartbreaking the longer you try. I remember our third time trying I got teary eyed and the fourth time, I had an all out melt down. Hugs to you! I'm glad to hear that you have determination for next cycle!

[Friederike]

Sphinxy Sorry about AF! I hope your body cooperates the way you want it to this cycle and you don't get too stressed out. Is it weird to wish you good healthy follicle growth?
Sotohana it's so cool that you and your partner are doing this together like this. Good luck to both of you!

Thank you everybody for your input. You're such a great help in this process. Thank you! I went ahead and ordered four 0,5ml straws, 2 with MOT 20 and 2 extra with MOT 10. Now I have another week to ponder whether to use those to increase the quantity like Sphinxy suggested or to use it for seperate insems like Esenbee suggested. There is no danger in mixing vials as long as it is the same donor, is there? Oh the joy of obsessing over details :-)
We also switched donors. The guy is a little Hobbit at 5'7 and mixed with my 5'3 it would probably make a teeny little babe. Oh, and since Mrs mentioned IUI's - I don't really have the option for that where I live. Fertility clinic access is limited for same sex couples over here by a regulation in the medical association's code of conduct. They fear paternity lawsuits. (Sounds unreal, but true.) So I will try at home 4-5 times and then consider switching to a clinic, which would mean a 4 to 8 hour trip (one way) depending on where I go. That's pretty hard to integrate into a workday. I am also very reluctant to stimulate in any way as I am not particularly keen on having multiples. Last cycle my body already produced two follicles without stim meds and I have never had an anovulatory cycle that I know of, so I don't think it is necessary at the moment. It's only try number two for us, so I am still feeling pretty zen about it all.

[mrsandmrs]

sphinxy - I'm sorry to hear that AF showed up. Your LP was so long, I thought for sure something awesome was happening. Sometimes those weird months where everything goes wrong just work out. Anyway, I hope next month is it for you. FX. 

Friederike - it sounds like a good plan! It is hard to imagine not having access to any of those services. We are so used to the idea of fertility services as a sort of "luxury" doctor's service, where the doctors compete for patients in this billion dollar industry. A lot of people do at-home IUIs, but your bank would have to provide washed sperm for that to be an option. It is awesome that you can be zen about it and confident that it's going to happen in its own time! I hope your Hobbit baby is en route. That comment cracked me up because I have a friend who's pregnant now and always talks about how her & her husband's genes can only produce a Hobbit baby. 

[DarcySD]

San Diego - so very sorry to hear what you and DW are going through 

KWPX2 - Welcome! Hope your stay is short and sweet! 

LindseyW -  Welcome! How did you decide on going the WTBK route? We are using a WTBK donor and don't know anyone else who is. Good luck on your upcoming insem. 

Friederike - Yay for cycle buddies!! It's coming up soon! Glad you were able to order all that sperm - sounds like you have a lot of options!!!

Twomommy - I am hoping we will get to trigger!! We are going early enough that I think we will catch it this month. 

esenbee2 - Thanks for the info on the sperm bank - we will definitely look into it if cost becomes an issue! You are brave getting the delivery at work. I didn't even think of that but might have to because waiting around my house all day and not being able to work is not good since I am already taking so much time off for inseminations, ultrasounds etc.. Looks like your timing went really well!! Very excited for you! 

sotohana - much luck for your upcoming insemination! Just a few more days! 

sphinxy - so sorry about AF - how are you doing?

mrs&mrs - So happy for you!! You must be over the moon!!

[granite]

Hi Friederike, like some of the others, I don't have much advice from personal experience, since I'm working with a clinic and they won't do more than one per cycle (I mean, maybe they would, but they make it clear that it's not part of their standard protocol), but anyway that's for IUI so two IVIs is a different story. I totally get what you mean about wanting to avoid the hassle of clinic visits for as long as you can, especially if it's that far of a distance for you to travel. Though if you do end up having to go that route, it's nice to have an expert focused on your TTC project (without having to become that expert yourself!). Keep up the zen!

KWPX2 and LindseyW! So glad you've joined us in this adventure.

esenbee, I laughed out loud at your story of getting the sperm at work. Wow. That's so nuts. Congrats on the timing! Here's some baby-dust for you:

I'm sorry that AF is here, sphinxy... I know what you mean about being hopeful despite the difficult timing, because I've had more than a couple friends who've gotten pregnant when it seemed so unlikely. Boo. FX for January.

AFM: My cycle's gone totally weird, with temps all over the place and CM changing from day to day. I think this is my body doing its PCOS-best to ovulate but just being unable to do it without the drugs I had the past two cycles. And I ran out of OPKs to boot, so I've got no clue what's going on with my hormones too... So glad I'm not insem'ing this time 'round. January FTW!

[esenbee2]

Fille, Please move me to the 2WW?
My temp went up again this morning, even though I am at the in-laws in their frigid house! I use a programmable thermostat at home, so I always know that the temp is the same. I tried to set the in-laws to the same temp, but they have an old one that isn't even digital, so it shows 70 and 80 and I had to guess the in-between..
It feels so weird to be in the 2WW again. Kind of unreal. I don't have the anticipation like I did the first 4 cycles a year ago. But it's only 2 DPO, so we'll see as time goes on! I think I will hold out to test til 12 DPO, but DSp might have me test as early as 9, like before...

[LindseyW]

Friederik - I love using Pubmed.com to research this stuff because it is all peer-reviewed scientific studies. I've found a few articles that you might find interesting for your decision-making process.

This study talks about the comparison of trigger verses natural LH surge - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22796236  

This one (and MANY others that I've read) says that there really is not any increase in success rates between 2 inseminations vs 1 per cycle - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19482652   

It seems crazy to think that one verses two doesn't really matter but I've read a whole bunch of studies that all show either a TINY improvement or none at all. It seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that isn't shown to actually increase your odds of conception. 

There are a bunch of studies on ideal timing for both LH surge and also trigger shots too if you feel like searching around a bit. 

Granite - ugg, sounds like a tough roller coaster to be on my body seems to be going a bit crazy this cycle too - I wonder if the holidays throw things off? Who knows.

DarcySD - WTBK just seemed like an obvious choice for us. I guess I never really thought about why - it just seemed like that way we have more options. Nobody has to contact the donor but DS could if he decides that he wants to. When our DS is 18, he can choose whatever suits him best.

On a somewhat-related note, our sperm bank offers an optional family contact list. We used TSBC and they're a non-profit bank that specializes in underserved populations of women. Many other banks used to refuse to work with lesbians/single women so that is why TSBC was founded.  Now, 2/3 of their clients are queer, another 25% are single-by-choice. Anyway, we have been in contact with another family who used the same donor and we have nothing but wonderful things to say about that process. The other boy is 6, our son is 4.5 and we actually met them IRL over the summer when both families traveled to DC. Both boys have a really good understanding of how they are related to each other (better than I would have expected for their ages) and they just immediately bonded. Our son has cousins this age and other friends but I've never seen him just totally latch onto someone like he did with his donor sibling. It is difficult to describe but I'm just so grateful that DS has this relationship in his life. Here are some photos of the experience if you're interested - https://plus.google.com/photos/103396784413858823836/albums/5784864295644388465?banner=pwa

AFM -  I'm kind of freaking out because my cycle is totally weird this month. I normally have a really regular cycle and ovulate on CD16 or 17. Today is CD12 and I used an OPK just for the heck of it and it was positive. WTF!?! My temps have been totally weird because we've been travelling and don't seem to make any sense either. Because of the New Years holiday, we happen to have sperm being delivered tomorrow (earlier than I would have scheduled it). So, the big question is if I should just inseminate as soon as the tank arrives tomorrow or skip this month and send it back... I'm going to see what my temp does tomorrow. I've been going to acupuncture weekly for the past 3 wks. I wonder if that is messing with my schedule? Grrrrr. 

[granite]

Gorgeous pics, LindseyW! On Friday, DP and I had dinner with friends who had their DS using a WTBK donor, and they used the DSR to find other families. Like you, they've met one of these families IRL and were just amazed by how positive the experience was. It made me so excited about being able to do the same someday!

As for your wacky cycle, maybe you should just go for it! I mean see what tomorrow's OPK and temp are like, but it's so fortuitous that you saw that early positive OPK and also had arranged the early delivery of the swim team... FX for you!

Sounding great, esenbee! Let's hope those temps stay up nice and high...

[esenbee2]

Lindsey -I totally understand the bond thing with your DS and his donor brother. Our DD has a half sister by her biological father. The sister's mother is a family friend and DD and the sister have played together a few times along with DD's cousins the same age and the sister's other sister who is the same age. There was an obvious bond between DD and her biological sister. They didn't know that they were sisters, but they were just DRAWN to each other and it seemed like the cousins and other sister didn't exist to them... It was some pretty powerful stuff to witness.

[scorpioma]

hey everyone!

just wanted to check in, I'm in Santa Fe with DP, visiting a friend. relaxing, had a massage today, ate some great food. Temping is tricky which stinks because I am usually pretty OCD about it. I will do my best. we are two hours behind Michigan time.

As soon as we return, we are starting OPKs and starting the waiting game!

getting really excited for January, everyone seems to have good insemination energy here for 2013!

esenbee, so glad you are in 2ww and timing was excellent!

I have to chime in about the studies re: 2 insems. vs. 1 per cycle. I think that while doing it at the same time might not increase chances, doing it on different days "covers" more time and possibly, depending on the person's cycle, decreasing the chances of missing inseminating at or just before O.  But, if well timed, it is interesting that there isn't a difference! thanks for sharing those, Lindsey!

also, wild about the early positive OPK!! so glad you caught that! do you think you will insem. as soon as it comes? how long after surge do you usually O?

 

[scorpioma]

Can I also add that it is awesome that they are studying insemination?!?!  Really fun to read those!  

 

[LindseyW]

Thanks for the support -- Im still not sure about using the sperm or not. My temps have been wacky and totally uninformative but... sorry if this is tmi... I have tons of ewcm (way more than usual) so I feel like I must still be fertile. To make matters more complicated, after the positive cheapie opk, I took a digital opk that was negative. But the next time that I peed I had a positive digital and then the following time it was negative again. This is soooo crazy. I usually have totally predictable cycles. Why would the opk change negative/positive/negative in the span of a about 4 hours? If my temp jumps significantly tomorrow, I'll send it back. If it drops or stays the same, we'll do the insemination as soon as it arrives. Keeping fingers crossed for a low temp!