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Immunotoxicity and Vaccines

post #1 of 29
12/1/12 at 5:48am
Thread Starter 

Has anyone seen this video from research published earlier this year?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5m8qckt4Wo

 

It makes you wonder, if it's true, how long have the PFCs levels been high enough to have an affect?

 

If true, why aren't we seeing increasing incidences or diptheria and tetanus?

 

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this research was done because they saw general immune decline in animals exposed to PFCs so it makes you wonder if this may also be the case with other vaccines? Maybe there's an relationship to autoimmune disorders?

 

Just curious what others thoughts are.

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post #2 of 29
12/1/12 at 10:29am
IF it's true.
post #3 of 29
12/1/12 at 10:31am

Good find Suvroc! Thanks for sharing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvroc View Post

Has anyone seen this video from research published earlier this year?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5m8qckt4Wo

 

It makes you wonder, if it's true, how long have the PFCs levels been high enough to have an affect?

 

If true, why aren't we seeing increasing incidences or diptheria and tetanus?

 

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this research was done because they saw general immune decline in animals exposed to PFCs so it makes you wonder if this may also be the case with other vaccines? Maybe there's an relationship to autoimmune disorders?

 

Just curious what others thoughts are.

 

 

Could it be that PFC exposure and accumulation is part of the reason other vaccines seem to not be working very well anymore?

 

What's interesting is that the children and mothers studied live in a remote area; it makes me wonder what the PFC concentration is in people living in urban ones?

 

This is a disturbing problem and one that needs to be looked into more thoroughly.

 

On a related note, perhaps PFC exposure could be one of the reasons why Merck's MMR vaccine isn't as effective as it used to be (assuming that the claimed 95% effectiveness in 1967 was a true number) as claimed by whistleblowers.

 

Merck Overstated Mumps Vaccine Effectiveness? 

post #4 of 29
12/1/12 at 10:41am
I'm interested in documentation that there are pfcs in vaccines and that "other vaccines aren't working as well as they used to." Maybe you could clarify your sources for this information.
post #5 of 29
12/1/12 at 11:01am
I'm seeing now that the claim isn't that pfcs are in vaccines, but that exposure in general to pfcs (a known harmful substance that's been on various governmental organizations radar for quite awhile) is causing a problem. Do keep in mind that this is a single research study limited in scope and only involving a single vaccination. It is definitely jumping to conclusions to expand the study to encompass everyone every where and every vaccine, or even to conclude causation which was not determined by this study. It could very well be that pfc exposure is associated with some other characteristic that caused the weakened immune response.

For myself, I'll take it as another reason to avoid pfcs, which I try and do anyway.
post #6 of 29
12/1/12 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I'm seeing now that the claim isn't that pfcs are in vaccines, but that exposure in general to pfcs (a known harmful substance that's been on various governmental organizations radar for quite awhile) is causing a problem. Do keep in mind that this is a single research study limited in scope and only involving a single vaccination. 
 

Actually it was two.

post #7 of 29
12/1/12 at 11:21am

The study:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1104903

post #8 of 29
12/1/12 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I'm seeing now that the claim isn't that pfcs are in vaccines, but that exposure in general to pfcs (a known harmful substance that's been on various governmental organizations radar for quite awhile) is causing a problem. Do keep in mind that this is a single research study limited in scope and only involving a single vaccination. It is definitely jumping to conclusions to expand the study to encompass everyone every where and every vaccine, or even to conclude causation which was not determined by this study. It could very well be that pfc exposure is associated with some other characteristic that caused the weakened immune response.
For myself, I'll take it as another reason to avoid pfcs, which I try and do anyway.

Go back and read the posts. Who here has claimed that there were PFCs in vaccines?

I for one think this is fascinating! It's one more argument for the urgency to research these PFCs and possibly remove them from consumer products.
Edited by Turquesa - 12/2/12 at 1:12pm
post #9 of 29
12/1/12 at 12:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

.
For myself, I'll take it as another reason to avoid pfcs, which I try and do anyway.

 

How long have you been avoiding fast food, nonstick cookware, paper plates, stain-resistant carpeting and clothing, microwave popcorn, fish? Apparently, also, in the air because particles from these products make it into the air we breath. Also in some skincare products. Who knows where else?

 

I ask because PFCs are bioaccumulative in humans and persistent in the environment. They also have a long half-life (years) in humans.

 

I believe there's a previous study linking a decrease in vaccine efficacy to PCBs so you'll want to avoid those also.

 

It's a good thing we can count on our government to look out for our, and our children's, safety. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=birnbaum-government-toxicologist-qa

 

 

 

Note: My tone sounds snarky but it's not meant to....well, except for the sarcasm in the last sentence..:-)

post #10 of 29
12/1/12 at 1:10pm
Chicha it was d and t which are both part of dtap, which I consider one vaccine.

Turquesa, I already corrected that mistake. You quoted me doing it?

Keep in mind the original sorce cited wasn't jama, but YouTube.
Edited by Rrrrrachel - 12/2/12 at 7:43am
post #11 of 29
12/1/12 at 1:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

IF it's true.


Yes, I'm asking...if it's true, what are your thoughts...

post #12 of 29
12/1/12 at 2:01pm

 

As a spin off….

 

I wonder if PFC decreases the amount of maternal antibodies that transfer to a baby due to nursing?  Or decrease the amount of immunity after an infection (i.e would a child who had chicken pox and who had high exposure to PCF show less immunity than a child who had the chicken pox but did not have a high intake of PCF's?)

 

It will be interesting to see if PFCs impact immune levels with regards to other VADs?

 

It does look like they are looking into it:

 

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/25/exposure-to-common-chemicals-may-weaken-vaccine-response/

 

"Grandjean and his colleagues are now analyzing children’s responses to other vaccines, to see if PFC exposure affects antibody levels for other childhood immunizations as well."


Edited by kathymuggle - 12/1/12 at 4:28pm
post #13 of 29
12/1/12 at 2:33pm
You Tube is a medium, not a source. The source was an interview of the scholar who conducted the research...who happened to use You Tube as a communication medium. So I think it's only fair to check out links that people post rather than not click on them because they come from You Tube.

The OP raised a legitimate hypothesis from a legitimate source, and the matter has no bearing on whether someone's pro or anti-vax or anywhere in between.
Edited by Turquesa - 12/2/12 at 1:17pm
post #14 of 29
12/1/12 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

As a spin off….

 

I wonder if PFC decrease the amount of maternal antibodies that transfer to a baby due to nursing?  or decrease the amount of immunity after an infection (i.e would a child who had the chicken pox and who had high exposure to PCF show less immunity than a child who had the chicken pox but did not have a high intake of PCF's?)

 

It will be interesting to see if PFCs impact immune levels with regards to other VADs?

 

It does look like they are looking into it:

 

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/25/exposure-to-common-chemicals-may-weaken-vaccine-response/

 

"Grandjean and his colleagues are now analyzing children’s responses to other vaccines, to see if PFC exposure affects antibody levels for other childhood immunizations as well."


The chickenpox thought is interesting. You would think if a high-PFC child DID have less immunity, you would see an increase in shingles in children as PFCs were more in use and/or accumulating, maybe? I wonder if the CDC tracked Varicella? .

 

PCBs are also associated with immune system dysfunction and vaccine inefficacy. http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/vaccines-less-effective-in-kids-exposed-to-pcbs

http://www.epa.gov/osw/hazard/tsd/pcbs/pubs/effects.htm

 

What's a VAD? I don't understand a lot of the acronyms on these forums (DD, DS, DH, etc.)

post #15 of 29
12/1/12 at 3:18pm
I'm not blowing it off because it came from YouTube. But if people are going to be snarky because the study came from wherever, it's worth pointing out that was NOT the original link. I ABSOLUTELY find things from YouTube suspect and in need of independent verification, which I did.
Edited by Rrrrrachel - 12/2/12 at 7:31am
post #16 of 29
12/2/12 at 7:12am
Several posts have been removed for violating the UA (or quoting a UAV), specifically, being snarky and cranky with each other. I've left a few up for edit opportunities (hint hint, Rrrrrachel and Turquesa).

Things that are ok:
Questioning studies
Questioning sources

Not OK:
Calling people or even research nutso
Attacking others for not accepting studies with the same weight as you do (accusing them of blowing it off, etc.)
Taking others' comments about studies as a reflection on or judgement of you personally (going easy on another poster or scolding, etc.)

Given these guidelines, please review your posts and edit accordingly, so that I don't have to delete more from this thread or kick people out!
post #17 of 29
12/2/12 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvroc View Post

 

What's a VAD? 

 

Vaccine Available Disease

post #18 of 29
12/2/12 at 7:35am
I'm kind of annoyed my post asking someone why they were being rude was removed, but not the post where they were being rude.
post #19 of 29
12/2/12 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvroc View Post

How long have you been avoiding fast food, nonstick cookware, paper plates, stain-resistant carpeting and clothing, microwave popcorn, fish? Apparently, also, in the air because particles from these products make it into the air we breath. Also in some skincare products. Who knows where else?

I ask because PFCs are bioaccumulative in humans and persistent in the environment. They also have a long half-life (years) in humans.

I believe there's a previous study linking a decrease in vaccine efficacy to PCBs so you'll want to avoid those also.

It's a good thing we can count on our government to look out for our, and our children's, safety. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=birnbaum-government-toxicologist-qa



Note: My tone sounds snarky but it's not meant to....well, except for the sarcasm in the last sentence..:-)

I'm not really sure what the point of these questions is. I obviously avoid things when I can, hopefully keeping my toxic load low enough it's ok when I can't. I think that's the only sane approach.
post #20 of 29
12/2/12 at 7:45am
Never mind - OT -but suvroc, glad you read it before I edited it for being OT (off topic smile.gif).  
 
Some common acronyms on MDC (although some vax related ones did not make the list):
http://www.mothering.com/community/a/abbreviations-and-acronyms
Kathy
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