December Chit Chat - Page 8 « Back to Group Discussions

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by birdhappy85 

 My thoughts are with the recent shooting victims and their families. 

 Why children??? Why? 

      I CANNOT imagine what those parents are going through right now.  I'm finding it difficult to breath as I let this tragedy soak in.

[seraf]

I can't understand why anyone would do that. Becky, homeschool is not the answer.

[LunaLady]

I just have no words. Those poor children...

This is actually in my top five reasons for wanting to homeschool. There was an attempted shooting at my school when I was in 7th grade. I begged my mom to homeschool me because I was so afraid. She said no, but ever since then I've promised to myself that I would homeschool any children I had.

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by seraf 

I can't understand why anyone would do that. Becky, homeschool is not the answer.

No, homeschooling will not solve this problem, but I certainly can understand the desire to keep your kids home right now.  I just keep thinking, what if that was my little kindergartener sitting at her little desk in that classroom?  You think you can send your kids off to school and they will come home to you!  But some 20 parents will not get their little kiddo home this afternoon.  Unimaginable.  My heart is breaking.   

Gun.  Control.  Now.

[dashley111]

I don't think homeschooling will fix our country. I don't think gun control will fix it either. I think the only thing that can fix things is for parents to stop cycles of violence and abuse, raise children teaching them empathy and respect, quit putting money and TV over reading and cuddling, and for everyone to start acknowledging that mental illness is a real thing- and that people can't always help themselves, but that is what community and support are for.

We can control all the guns in America, but if someone is THAT mentally ill that they find slaughtering innocent children to be an appropriate thing to do...they will just find another way to hurt and murder.

Most serial killers have a sad, sad story.

[TalkToMeNow]

EXCELLENT post, Ash. Homeschooling is not going to help... If we go down that path, we all need to stay out of malls and movie theaters and government buildings and skyscrapers and military bases etc etc. I do believe gun control can help. The numbers of gun deaths in countries with stricter gun laws are significantly lower than in the us. But I also think the real issue is our culture of violence. I won't get into all my views, but I will say I think violent media is part of it. I also think there is something seriously wrong with the way our boys are being raised. I don't have the answers other than what Ash said.


My heart breaks for the families.

[Becky Wheeler]

Originally Posted by seraf 

I can't understand why anyone would do that. Becky, homeschool is not the answer.

Homeschooling won't solve the problem, but it'd certainly ensure that it doesn't happen to my kids, should a lunatic come into the school.

[Becky Wheeler]

Originally Posted by dashley111 

I don't think homeschooling will fix our country. I don't think gun control will fix it either. I think the only thing that can fix things is for parents to stop cycles of violence and abuse, raise children teaching them empathy and respect, quit putting money and TV over reading and cuddling, and for everyone to start acknowledging that mental illness is a real thing- and that people can't always help themselves, but that is what community and support are for.
We can control all the guns in America, but if someone is THAT mentally ill that they find slaughtering innocent children to be an appropriate thing to do...they will just find another way to hurt and murder.
Most serial killers have a sad, sad story.

i.e. The incident in China today. 22 children, no gun involved

And I agree that the real solution lies in parenting and parents taking care of their health.

[Autumnshades]

Yeah, gun control isn't the issue.  I agree - if someone is mentally unstable they will find some other bizarre way to kill.  If someone at that school had had a gun, they could have made an attempt to take the guy down (not necessary kill but confront him so he would lay down his weapon) before he killed that many kids.  It is incredibly sad.  Like many have said, homeschooling might not change that, but it is raising thoughtful children, who are nurtured and given room to grow as healthy individuals who will in the end change the world.  It is the culture that we live in that breeds violence - just look at the average movie nowadays - or all those kill and slash 'em video games :(:(

[seraf]

Of course, stabbing that many people would take a lot longer than shooting them. If had smaller magazines, even, it would be slower.

[Autumnshades]

Anyone using toothpaste for your little ones?

[birdhappy85]

Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow 

EXCELLENT post, Ash. Homeschooling is not going to help... If we go down that path, we all need to stay out of malls and movie theaters and government buildings and skyscrapers and military bases etc etc. I do believe gun control can help. The numbers of gun deaths in countries with stricter gun laws are significantly lower than in the us. But I also think the real issue is our culture of violence. I won't get into all my views, but I will say I think violent media is part of it. I also think there is something seriously wrong with the way our boys are being raised. I don't have the answers other than what Ash said.
My heart breaks for the families.

Agreed on several points, especially the way our boys are raised... You know how many men I know who can freely express healthy emotion? Close to zero. And many of them zone out with computer/video games and sometimes addictive behaviors with other activities. Most of these guys either had weak or absent father figures, or they came from dysfunctional or abusive homes.

[seraf]

It seems that these guys aren't normal guys. They have much larger issues. Normal guys don't hurt people like that.

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by Autumnshades 

Yeah, gun control isn't the issue.  I agree - if someone is mentally unstable they will find some other bizarre way to kill.  If someone at that school had had a gun, they could have made an attempt to take the guy down (not necessary kill but confront him so he would lay down his weapon) before he killed that many kids. 

This may be true for some unstable people, but the fact that getting and shooting a gun is just so easy, more people die and die quicker.  No one knows what this guy had in mind when he went to the school, but apparently it started with an argument with the principal and then escalated.  The gun allowed him to suddenly decide to kill.  Other weapons would have required much more thought and much more intent, making this kind of violence less likely.  And police statistics show that using a gun to defend yourself against an armed assailant usually results in more injury.  Would we have our teachers arm themselves "just in case" and have loaded guns in classrooms so that students could accidentally or not accidentally hurt themselves or others?  No!  I really believe that better gun control would help.  It can't solve the problem, but it could help and it's a step that can be taken quickly.  Changing our culture, while getting to the root of the problem, would require a miracle.

Originally Posted by seraf 

Of course, stabbing that many people would take a lot longer than shooting them. If had smaller magazines, even, it would be slower.

Yes.  There are steps we can take to restrict what kind of weapons are so easily available.  It's just too easy in this country.  Combine that with many of the other points brought up here about our culture and how we are raising our children and there is a big, big problem.  Take the guns out of the equation and the problem could become less violent.  Statistics from other countries do support this.

[Autumnshades]

Of cause you are not going to keep a loaded gun in a classroom, that would be stupid. But there should be some way teachers can defend themselves.  Ask yourself why schools are targeted?  Because no one is going to be able defend themselves there.  That is the sad reality of it.  

[birdhappy85]

Becky, it's my understanding that the China stabbing injured the 22 children but didn't kill any. That supports Jaimee's mention of how much easier it is to kill with guns available.

After talking with my DH tonight, I am definitely more on the side of strict gun laws now. Did you guys know that most guns are entirely illegal to own in Japan, and severe restrictions are placed on those allowed to own? Handguns are outright illegal. You know how many gun-related deaths occur in Japan each year? As few as 2. TWO!!! How many did America have in 2008? 12,000 firearm-related deaths with nearly 600 caused by mere accidental discharges...

This article is a must-read: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

My DH is part Japanese, so he knows a bit about Japanese culture, and I just couldn't believe when he explained all of this to me... My first question was, "Why don't they mention Japan in these gun law debates?! The proof lies there!" He said that Japan is off-limits in discussions because of how extreme and successful its been at controlling guns and related deaths, and our U.S. gun lobbyists keep that under wraps and control the debate here. *sigh*

[Becky Wheeler]

Originally Posted by birdhappy85 

Agreed on several points, especially the way our boys are raised... You know how many men I know who can freely express healthy emotion? Close to zero. And many of them zone out with computer/video games and sometimes addictive behaviors with other activities. Most of these guys either had weak or absent father figures, or they came from dysfunctional or abusive homes.

My poor husband. He is very in touch with his emotions and will cry, but he puts himself down for it, saying he's not a real man.  He knows that's one of the things that I love about him though. And we both agree that the way our parents raised us (spanking, etc) just isn't the answer.

And while no one got killed in the China stabbing, it still took someone that was unhealthy mentally to do it, proving that we need to take special care in raising our children and take care of our mental health.

[birdhappy85]

Originally Posted by Becky Wheeler 

My poor husband. He is very in touch with his emotions and will cry, but he puts himself down for it, saying he's not a real man.  He knows that's one of the things that I love about him though. And we both agree that the way our parents raised us (spanking, etc) just isn't the answer.

And while no one got killed in the China stabbing, it still took someone that was unhealthy mentally to do it, proving that we need to take special care in raising our children and take care of our mental health.

Oh, I entirely agree about the need for a greater focus on supporting mental health and better childrearing. No question about it!

Becky, your husband is more of a man for being able to cry. That's unfortunate he thinks the opposite.  That's a lot of what our men are taught these days... that expressing emotion makes one weak.

My DH very rarely expresses emotion because he was never shown/taught/allowed it growing up. It makes me so sad for him and for us. Life would be much easier if his parents hadn't screwed that up for him.

[seraf]

Jaime, he took several guns and a lot of ammo with him to talk to the principal? I heard the guns were his mom's.

Anyway. I live in a region where hunting is very important. Like, for food for many families. I see some value in shotguns for that purpose. I could leave the rest of them.

[Becky Wheeler]

Originally Posted by birdhappy85 

Oh, I entirely agree about the need for a greater focus on supporting mental health and better childrearing. No question about it!

Becky, your husband is more of a man for being able to cry. That's unfortunate he thinks the opposite.  That's a lot of what our men are taught these days... that expressing emotion makes one weak.

My DH very rarely expresses emotion because he was never shown/taught/allowed it growing up. It makes me so sad for him and for us. Life would be much easier if his parents hadn't screwed that up for him.

We're breaking the cycle for that. It feels really good, especially now, that we're breaking the cycle of justified harm to children and teaching our children to express their feelings and that it's okay, even for boys to cry.