Ridiculous quote from Dr. Tenpenny - Page 3

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

But the problem is that most doctors don't start there. They go right to prescribing the meds.

Often you can tell which ones will: they have all the Big Pharma paraphernalia strewn about their offices: coffee mugs, pens, writing pads, etc. etc. pimping the drug du jour.

Like this:






Am I lucky to have found a doctor who will prescribe a medication as a last resort? Is he that unusual?

Actually if you are seeing lots of drug rep swag around your Dr's office it's probably pretty old since there was a voluntary ban on all such items beginning in 2009.

http://consumerist.com/2008/12/31/drug-makers-say-goodbye-to-swag-in-2009/

[nia82]

Interesting that it was banned... BEcause that stuff is ALL OVER the base medical clinic. Their pens, cups, paper, clips, everything.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 


Actually if you are seeing lots of drug rep swag around your Dr's office it's probably pretty old since there was a voluntary ban on all such items beginning in 2009.
http://consumerist.com/2008/12/31/drug-makers-say-goodbye-to-swag-in-2009/

I see new and different stuff every time I go to the doctor:  pens, magnets,cups, etc.

Also, at our yearly company health care meetings, they always pass out free gift items.  I have several purple Nexxium lunch boxes now.

[prosciencemum]

Taxi - I think you might just have demonstrated that even if a doctor does have a lot of freebies from pharmaceutical companies that by itself does not demonstrate a person is in the pocket of "big pharma" or that they immediately prescribe drugs before considering other options.

Situation in the uk is a bit different of course as prescribed drugs are paid for out of NHS. Leads me to wonder (might need a different thread) if people feel different about government vaccination recommendations if its government funding picking up the tab....

[Dakotacakes]

In a discussion of Dr. Tenpenny in particular I don't think you can debate or discuss problems with profits without looking at both sides of that equation.  Everyone likely wants to make a living regardless of what they do.  I don't think a $2 coffee mug or a $.50 pen is going to influence doctors that much to be honest.  When I select textbooks I know that the post it notes the publishers send out really doens't fit into the equation. 

But assuming that yes, they do and they are prescribing and encouraging vaccination solely to line their pockets with cash and their cupboards with drug company swag.  I think we need to look at the opposite too!  Dr. Tenpenny is profitting from promoting not vaccinating and alternative health as well.  If you go to her website she even has an online store!   

You go to Dr. Tenpenny's website first read some of her articles which discuss supplements and diet are the only way to good health.  That vaccines ar eblack magic and should be avoided (as should "drugs").  To start she encourages you to buy her book "Saying no to vaccines" Because Dr.s and big pharma are so pushy that you will need her expert advice for the bargain price of $39.  If you would like to publizie your choice you can also purchase a t-shirt for $20.

Then you start reading about the supplements that will help you keep your health (as opposed to vaccines which destroy it).  The following are the cost of a MONTH of the supplements she recommends (granted not everyone would need all of them, not everyoone has allergies, or is a woman etc.):  Vitamin D (ranges from $15-$23); allerx-$36.87; opti biotic-$29.72; probono-$90.85; opti brain-$30.96; Women's health-$68.71; CoQ-10-$65.59; Greens $48.82; MSM900 $40.29; Alpha Base Ultimate-$117.48. Opti Sinus relief-$28.12; and Opti Thistle-$20.69.

That is up to $613.29/month in supplement that Dr. Tenpenny sells or $7357 yearly costs if you took all the options (with the lowest option for Vitamin D choice).  She is profiting from this as well.  Possibly more so than Doctors promotting a flu shot (which I saw advertised at a drug store for $30)

If you belief MDs just recommend and promote vaccines for profits, then the same can said about Dr. Tenpenny that she recommends no vaccines, and supplmeents instead. for the money.

The profit mantra cuts both ways.

[Rrrrrachel]

Very good point. This discussion is extra ironic in this setting.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

I see new and different stuff every time I go to the doctor:  pens, magnets,cups, etc.

Also, at our yearly company health care meetings, they always pass out free gift items.  I have several purple Nexxium lunch boxes now.

NO NO NO DON'T go to the dark side!!! Ha ha.

I wonder how much those "free" items cost for the companies. 

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Dakotacakes 

Then you start reading about the supplements that will help you keep your health (as opposed to vaccines which destroy it).  The following are the cost of a MONTH of the supplements she recommends (granted not everyone would need all of them, not everyoone has allergies, or is a woman etc.):  Vitamin D (ranges from $15-$23); allerx-$36.87; opti biotic-$29.72; probono-$90.85; opti brain-$30.96; Women's health-$68.71; CoQ-10-$65.59; Greens $48.82; MSM900 $40.29; Alpha Base Ultimate-$117.48. Opti Sinus relief-$28.12; and Opti Thistle-$20.69.

That is up to $613.29/month in supplement that Dr. Tenpenny sells or $7357 yearly costs if you took all the options (with the lowest option for Vitamin D choice).  She is profiting from this as well. 

I doubt Dr. Tenpenny is making a killing selling t-shirts and supplements (references welcome), but it would be nice if she could make at least a comfortable living since she does so much trying to get information out to people.

And anyone can see that you don't have to spend that much money on Vitamin D or CoQ-10 or milk thistle exttract if you're a bargain shopper.

But if you have the money and don't want to go out of your way to find all these supplements, it's sure convenient to have them available on a website (not just hers either).

I'm glad to see that she's selling vitamin D, because it's an important one for immunity, especially during the winter.

[Rrrrrachel]

Pfft, dr tenpenny is no more motivated by sharing information than drug companies are by altruism. Books, DVDs, supplements, speaking engagements . . .

[BeckyBird]

Yes, it is fair to examine the financial interests of both sides. I agree.

My question is, and this is not meant to be snarky, do those of you who vaccinate also take supplements?  So, the info on Dr.Tenpenny's site, or even Mercola's, is still good info in my opinion.  Yes, they dislike vaccines, but there still might be value in their supplement & nutrition info. If Merck, or Century, or GNC, etc. sold the exact same brand of supplements, would it be any different? Quality supplements can be beneficial, whether you vaccinate or not. (My opinion, because supplements/nutrition is almost as controversial as the vaccine issue!)

Bottom line: I believe quality supplements can benefit all of us, regardless of vax status. Although Tenpenny is non-vax, her supplements are not. Vax and non-vax can benefit from Vitamin D, probiotics, etc. I don't think criticizing her for selling supplements makes much sense, since they are meant for everybody.

Her books, on the other hand, are definitely for the non-vax/vax skeptics. You can criticize her for that....that would be fair.

[kathymuggle]

It is not the money people make that is an issue.  Selling your wares to people who want them is fine.

Big Pharm does the following:

-sits on health advisory panels - total conflict of interest

-gives money to government, and has a powerful lobby voice

-has the government mandating or very close to mandating its products

It is not the "making money."  Most people are engaged in making money.  It is the conflict of interest and nepotism involved in vaccines that is an issue, although that sometimes (erroneously) gets simplified down to dollars and cents on this forum.

[Rrrrrachel]

And the counterpoint to that is that people like dr tenpenny use scare tactics and manipulate people to make their money.

[BeckyBird]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

 scare tactics and manipulate people

Counter-counterpoint.....so does the CDC.

[Dakotacakes]

I don't discount supplements as beneifcial.  Just as I don't discount vaccines as beneficial, nor drugs as beneficial.  I also don't refer to any of them as black magic.

But if the issue is only profit which gets brought up against MDs and pharamaceutical compnies, that is 100% able to be used against Tenpenny and others. 

Yes she recommends them for everyone (i.e. is expanding her profit margin by encouarging more to buy them).  Doctors recommend vaccines to everyone (and it is constantly discussed that they are doing so to make more money).  To me this makes her profit motive MORE applicable not less.  Yes, you can bargain shop for supplements and don't have to buy them from her, but by the same token, when a Doctor writes me a script I can bargain shop for that script as well.  And very rarely to I buy the recommended product directly from the physician (making a profit motive crystal clear).

I don't begrudge her profit seeking behavior.  But to discuss doctors as problematic because they get coffee mugs from drug companies and then prescribe medications that the patient then goes elsewhere to purchase seems shortsighted in a thread about someone who writes articles on the internet about the need for supplements andn then sells them direct on the same site.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

It is not the money people make that is an issue.  Selling your wares to people who want them is fine.

Big Pharm does the following:

-sits on health advisory panels - total conflict of interest

-gives money to government, and has a powerful lobby voice

-has the government mandating or very close to mandating its products

It is not the "making money."  Most people are engaged in making money.  It is the conflict of interest and nepotism involved in vaccines that is an issue, although that sometimes (erroneously) gets simplified down to dollars and cents on this forum.

Yes.

It's like comparing David to Goliath. 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

And the counterpoint to that is that people like dr tenpenny use scare tactics and manipulate people to make their money.

Funny. I've been to her website a number of times, and I don't have the slightest urge to buy anything from her or anyone else.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Funny. I've been to her website a number of times, and I don't have the slightest urge to buy anything from her or anyone else.

I agree.

I actually have fairly little in the terms of alternative medicine (herbs, vitamin, homeopathy) kicking around my house.  Less than most folks I know, mainstream or not.  Most of the stuff I have I bought locally, and is not a particular brand.

Fwiw, I am skeptical of product ads ( vitamins, prescriptions, coffee makers) or "evidence" on pages that sell products.  I know they have a fair bit to gain ($$$) by portraying their product in a positive light.

Edited by kathymuggle - 12/4/12 at 4:09pm

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

But many times they are given to people when they're not necessary; I seriously doubt anyone has a statin deficiency for example. ;-)

Lots of people are finding that they can normalize their cholesterol (ignoring the fact that the magic number was lowered some years back, possibly to increase the amount of people who could be diagnosed as having "high" cholesterol) and reduce or eliminate the amount of insulin they need by making dietary and lifestyle changes. 

So yeah, true story, my husband? Runs marathons. Like, a two hour run is fun for him. He'll fit in two or three a week and then take 4 hours to do a really long run once or twice a month. Has run over 2000 miles in the past year and is grumpy because his annual mileage is *down*. Is on a seriously restrictive low cholesterol diet. Without statins, his ldl is around 400. Really.

He has a genetic condition called familial hypercholesterolemia. He's been in treatment for it since he was three.

Yes, this is an anecdote, but the number of ddata points required to refute the claim that a thing never happens is only one. DH's condition affects a heck of a lot more then one person.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Funny. I've been to her website a number of times, and I don't have the slightest urge to buy anything from her or anyone else.

I actually just went over to her page for the first time to see what everyone was talking about. It's pretty basic. 

My main exposure comes from Facebook and whatever I see on my newsfeed. But I subscribe to so many things I don't always see her posts. 

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by Dakotacakes 

In a discussion of Dr. Tenpenny in particular I don't think you can debate or discuss problems with profits without looking at both sides of that equation.  Everyone likely wants to make a living regardless of what they do.  I don't think a $2 coffee mug or a $.50 pen is going to influence doctors that much to be honest.  When I select textbooks I know that the post it notes the publishers send out really doens't fit into the equation. 

 

I would respectfully disagree with this.  I think most people would like to think that they would not be swayed by a coffee mug or pen, but there has been some pretty good research done on this.  Doctors truly are influenced by the swag.  Similarly, there is a huge influence on prescribing habits when doctors keep free samples of medications in their office.  Those doctors prescribe more expensive, name brand meds.

Which is why I haven't allowed drug reps to detail in my office since 2007. :)

And it's true, there's been a ban on this kind of stuff since 2009.  If anyone is seeing anything in their doctor's office, it's old.