Slate article on congressional hearings - Page 3

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

What protection, other than from vaccines, are you thinking that some kids have and some kids don't?

Immunity to pertussis is not lifelong, even after actually contracting the disease.  Natural immunity can fade in as little as four years.

Yes, I'm curious about that, too.

As far as I'm concerned, one of the cures for all these diseases that are vaccinated for is sodium ascorbate, as used by Dr. Klenner in the 40s.

He was an obscure southern doctor who cured his patients' polio and even wrote a paper about it called  "The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C"  in the July 1949 edition of  ''Southern Medicine & Surgery." 

It was also used successfully against measles, mumps, chicken pox, the flu, etc.

[Rrrrrachel]

Are you pranking me?

[Chicharronita]

No the vitamin C paper is real. And many other doctors have used it successfully as well.

Most recently a dairy farmer in New Zealand got an almost terminal case of swine flu but was cured with it. 

Living Proof: Vitamin C - Miracle Cure? - 60 Minutes - Video - 3 News

Edited by Chicharronita - 12/11/12 at 1:52pm

[Rrrrrachel]

I have no words.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I have no words.

Yes - as they say if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all. 

Chic - I am fairly familiar and interested in Klenner's work - but that is for another thread/forum!!

[Imakcerka]

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Marnica 

Chic - I am fairly familiar and interested in Klenner's work - but that is for another thread/forum!!

I've been meaning to see if a thread was ever posted about him. I think his paper has a lot of good information that would be helpful for new parents.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I have no words.

I know! I don't either when I consider that Alan Smith's family had to almost sue the hospital in order for him to be treated with IV vitamin C. His doctors had decided to pull the plug on his life support (he was in a coma).

And somehow his leukemia was gone too by the end of the treatment.

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

I know! I don't either when I consider that Alan Smith's family had to almost sue the hospital in order for him to be treated with IV vitamin C. His doctors had decided to pull the plug on his life support (he was in a coma).

And somehow his leukemia was gone too by the end of the treatment.

Absolutely true!  I read it on Whale.to!

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Absolutely true!  I read it on Whale.to!

It's a good site, isn't it? But my link came from a New Zealand t.v. station's site. I guess it was such an incredible story about the "wonders" of pharma-driven hospitals that even  the mainstream media there couldn't ignore it.

ETA: Alan Smith's story was shown on New Zealand's 60 Minutes show.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

As far as I'm concerned, one of the cures for all these diseases that are vaccinated for is sodium ascorbate, as used by Dr. Klenner in the 40s.

He was an obscure southern doctor who cured his patients' polio and even wrote a paper about it called  "The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C"  in the July 1949 edition of  ''Southern Medicine & Surgery." 

It was also used successfully against measles, mumps, chicken pox, the flu, etc.

Oh my good lord. Do you understand how violently unethical this particular research was? Did you catch the bit where the "researcher" declines to confirm diagnosis of polio in order to prevent patients from being given the care standard at the time, and the justifies himself by arguing that things turned out okay? Notice that his sample size for polio was only 60 patients, only 15 of whom were confirmed to have polio? So: bad methods on statistically insufficient sample size. TERRIBLE research.

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

It's a good site, isn't it? But my link came from a New Zealand t.v. station's site. I guess it was such an incredible story about the "wonders" of pharma-driven hospitals that even  the mainstream media there couldn't ignore it.

ETA: Alan Smith's story was shown on New Zealand's 60 Minutes show.

No... no it's not a good site.  But I'll let you have your fun.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 


Oh my good lord. Do you understand how violently unethical this particular research was? 

So unethical that it cured his patients?

Quote:

 Notice that his sample size for polio was only 60 patients, only 15 of whom were confirmed to have polio? So: bad methods on statistically insufficient sample size. TERRIBLE research.

 It was good enough for the medical journal, and good enough for him to talk about it at an AMA meeting.

In any case the vitamin C worked, and with no "side" effects. Unlike vaccines. 

[Chicharronita]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Absolutely true!  I read it on Whale.to!

 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

No... no it's not a good site.  

So why do you go there and read things then? I don't understand. 

[Rrrrrachel]

His patients recovered, right in the middle of the 2-10 day window for recovery from mild polio. I'm shocked.

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

 

So why do you go there and read things then? I don't understand. 

I found it there.  And we're allowed sarcasm now in the debate forum. 

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

 It was good enough for the medical journal, and good enough for him to talk about it at an AMA meeting.

In any case the vitamin C worked, and with no "side" effects. Unlike vaccines. 

Okay - so this "cure", in which 60 patients, only 15 of whom were proved to have polio in the first place, got better during the normal recovery window for mild polio, had no side effects?  Really?  You believe this guy?  Were they using a special different vitamin C in 1948 that didn't cause diarrhea?  Note that this man writes off vomiting after the oral administration of vitamin C as "not a side effect"? 

I don't care if it was good enough for a medical journal in 1948.  Standards have improved since that time.

Furthermore, statements made in this paper (like "In developing this paper it was felt that, since all virus infections were more or less akin, only one of this family would be considered in detail.") are now known to be not true.  I don't know why you're treating it as anything but an interesting historical artifact, because that's what it is.

[chickabiddy]

Have you read what whale.to has to say about history, particularly WWII-era history?  Are you still convinced it's a quality site with unbiased, well-vetted research?

[Dakotacakes]

Sodium ascorbate has many virtues. But I don't believe it will cure Polio . I am not sure if it CURES anything but it does provide could immune benefits. But it is also not risk free. If you read the potential side effects of high dose vitamin C it can be just as scary as the side effects of medications.

[dinahx]

Back on track, there is no evidence I have seen that Pertussis vax reduces the severity of Pertussis amongst those who still contract it. None. Other than speculation. I am certainly open to seeing a link but speculation is speculation, no matter who is doing the speculatin.