Help me Brainstorm Things to Try (Long)

[BabySmurf]

My DS is two and has multiple food intolerances.  He holds his poop for a week or more at a time and/or is constipated.  He has been impacted in the past (which cleared).  I'm worried about what this is doing to him long term. 

Background:

At about 3 months old DS started having musousy poops, occasionally streaked with blood.  Asked pedi at the time what to do, he said it was normal.  Mucous persists, I halfheartedly try eliminating a few foods to see if there is improvement, and see some, but the mucous persists.  I call the pedi again, and he said that food allergies are really rare, it's nothing.

We moved and I got a new pedi, this one recommends cutting out dairy, which I did, and I did see a lot of improvement, but it still wasn't "right".  DS is now 6 months old and his poop is now more like diarrhea and he still poops 6 times per day.  I was still avoiding dairy, and started cutting out soy and gluten.  BAM! All of a sudden huge improvement.  His poops become more solid, he is able to sleep for a couple hours at a time at night....wonderful. 

But then by about 8 months things start going down hill on the other direction....his poops slow down until they are only coming every couple of days.  It seems to bother him while pooping.  He still isn't sleeping great, and I wonder if his moods swings aren't due to discomfort.  I don't really know what to do from here, and things don't really change.  DS is not eating solids at this point, besides just playing occasionally.

When DS was around 1 I took an IgG allergy test (recommended by the family doctor) since I figure the issue is something I am passing on to him.  Things that came up on the test were garlic and yeast, along with a couple of other low reactive foods...so not a huge help.  I eliminate garlic and notice a huge improvement with my own GI system, and after a few months of experimenting I came to the conclusion that the reason I was reactive to garlic was that it was causing a severe die off reaction. 

So for that early spring into summer I worked on fixing the yeast problem I had.  DS is 18 months old by the time things are under control.  I am also trying to get probiotics into DS, but he's still not really eating much, so it's hard to do.  At this point I try reintroducing the dairy and wheat into my diet.  I didn't add soy back in intentionally, but I wasn't reading labels for it either.  At first most symptoms don't appear.  DS actually is pooping more, although it seems to also bother him to poo.  Then his sleep gets more disturbed.  And things deteriorate a bit, so I slowly remove the trigger foods again.  I also realize DS is sensitive to corn and many corn derived products.  We go Paleo while still keeping GAPS philosophies in mind.  DS is eating more, but is only pooping once per week still. 

While sticking to a strictish Paleo type diet, I feel amazing.  And DS begins eating some snacks.  I eat a lot of broth and fresh foods. DS's behavior improves as well as sleeping...but we are very low on carbs.  DS still only pooping once per week.  My weight continues to plummet, and I am at the point where I am getting lethargic.  So I add in some rice.  DS responds beautifully and begins devouring a huge dinner every night, which allows him a 4-6 hour stretch of sleep every night (amazing!!).  That induced ovulation and I immediately become pregnant. 

The pregnancy lets me know just how low we have been on carbs, and I begin devouring everything around me, including dairy (which I craved like crazy), and wheat.  I still avoided the soy and corn as much as possible.  DS sensed the pregnancy and began eating 3-4 meals per day plus snacks.  This caused him to start pooping every couple of days instead of the once per week if he was lucky.  But again, it started to burn his butt, his behavioral symptoms came back, and his sleep sucked again, and he has been sick almost constantly since I became pregnant 3 months ago. 

I did manage to get the diet back on track, and as soon as that happened, he went back to pooping once per week...it bothers him to go.  He is scared of diaper changes because it hurts.  He is afraid to use the potty instead.  I think that he is holding his poop.  Friday he did a poop so big it literally wouldn't fit down the toilet.  I feel terrible!

The doctor said that the constipation is likely caused by a food intolerance, and it will improve upon removing the food.  Things like mirilax contain ingredients that make DS sick, so I can "get" him to go with it (only after forcing it down his throat), but it doesn't reinforce the pooping doesn't hurt idea that it's meant to, because it does hurt him when it comes out.  (he wimpers in my lap, which he does NOT do when he is constipated).

Right now the only dairy we eat is butter (should I stop it? when introducing/eliminating dairy over the span of things, butter doesn't *seem* to be an issue) We don't eat wheat.  We don't eat soy.  We don't eat corn or most corn derived things that I have been able to identify, but I'm SURE that it's lingering in some of our stuff that I am unaware of (could this be causing the lingering symptoms?).  We take a daily probiotic.  I eat fermented foods and DS will eat them when he's in the mood.  We had been taking FCLO, but neither one of us is able to stomach it at this moment.  What else can I be doing?

Please give me some ideas on how to make this better ...and Thank You for anyone who has read through this!

[MelW]

I couldn't read and not reply!

I have two thoughts: one is to use ghee instead of butter, since you'll be free of milk proteins. You can make your own ghee pretty easily

The other suggestion is to try magnesium supplements. Natural calm is the one I've seen most often used by people with allergies, with some help of allergy/asthma symptoms. The best part is that more frequent/looser stools are a side effect (or in your case, a benefit). I'm not sure about dose, but old threads in this forum have discussed magnesium supplementation extensively.

Good luck to both of you!

[SweetSilver]

ETA: BabySmurf, I realized after I wrote this that you've already had experience with kids and allergies.  So, sorry if this post seems pedantic.  I'm leaving it as is, though.

As a palliative remedy (not the best term for this particular context, but, oh well) would be to smear Aquaphor liberally after each and every diaper change.  I went through giant quantities of the stuff, and no, Vaseline was no substitute.  

Questions:

Are you still nursing?

Are you keeping a food/ elimination/ mood diary?

I would start by eliminating dairy entirely again, then adding it back in without making *any other* dietary changes.  It's possible that you could see a difference in about a week.  (1 week off dairy, add butter back in next day.)  If no noticeable difference, then either you need to try a longer elimination, or it really isn't an issue.

While it's entirely possible, I tend not to suspect "lingering symptoms" idea until I am reassured that there isn't a more overt cause.  Allergic reactions can be caused by any protein--even rice, seeds, meats, mushrooms (!), all dairy products, eggs, etc. etc. etc.  I don't believe that oils are perfectly free of proteins, having had allergic reactions to take-out food containing suspect oils.  Intolerances that cause GI upset can be just about anything.  And just because a food was OK 6 months ago, doesn't mean that is OK today, especially with young children (and vice versa, IME).  Makes the problem insanely difficult sometimes.

Other things can be constipating: certain foods, like sweet potato and squash, were constipating for my daughter.  Also, she was freakishly sensitive to iron.  Too much of some types of calcium supplements can cause constipation in some people.  Rice can be constipating, even without sensitivities, as can all bananas except dead-ripe ones, and other fruits besides.  Pears and prunes are loosening.  I used to stew prunes in water until extremely soft, then pureed them for a snack dd loved as a baby.  

Even if you fix the dietary culprit, you are probably going to be healing his fear of using the potty for a lot longer.  That one is pretty well ingrained, and it will take some gentleness on your part to cure him of it.  

[BabySmurf]

Originally Posted by MelW 

I couldn't read and not reply!
I have two thoughts: one is to use ghee instead of butter, since you'll be free of milk proteins. You can make your own ghee pretty easily
The other suggestion is to try magnesium supplements. Natural calm is the one I've seen most often used by people with allergies, with some help of allergy/asthma symptoms. The best part is that more frequent/looser stools are a side effect (or in your case, a benefit). I'm not sure about dose, but old threads in this forum have discussed magnesium supplementation extensively.
Good luck to both of you!

Thanks so much for saying this...it's something I have been wondering about but haven't had the energy to do lately. I will make more of an effort.  And I will look into the natural calm...I've tried giving DS a bath with magnesium salts, but is hasn't done the job, but I bet the supplements will work a little better. In the past it's been difficult to get him to take things orally, but he's been open to his probiotics lately so maybe I will have luck with the supplement :)

[BabySmurf]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

ETA: BabySmurf, I realized after I wrote this that you've already had experience with kids and allergies.  So, sorry if this post seems pedantic.  I'm leaving it as is, though.

Definitely not! I have tried so many things with little results, it helps to have encouragement that I'm doing the right things...or at least that it's not futile.

As a palliative remedy (not the best term for this particular context, but, oh well) would be to smear Aquaphor liberally after each and every diaper change.  I went through giant quantities of the stuff, and no, Vaseline was no substitute.  

This is an interesting idea too; it makes a lot of sense, I will give this a shot too.

Questions:

Are you still nursing?

Yes, but I anticipate that my milk will be drying up relatively soon (I'm about 15 weeks pregnant).  I often wonder if nursing at this point is helping or hurting him...although it is something that he is extremely attached to.  I do keep our diets the same.

Are you keeping a food/ elimination/ mood diary?

This is something I know I need to start again, I haven't been consistent with it at all lately.  But I realize that this would make a world of difference.

I would start by eliminating dairy entirely again, then adding it back in without making *any other* dietary changes.  It's possible that you could see a difference in about a week.  (1 week off dairy, add butter back in next day.)  If no noticeable difference, then either you need to try a longer elimination, or it really isn't an issue.

This would probably be the easiest change to make, since the butter is really the only dairy we do.

While it's entirely possible, I tend not to suspect "lingering symptoms" idea until I am reassured that there isn't a more overt cause.  Allergic reactions can be caused by any protein--even rice, seeds, meats, mushrooms (!), all dairy products, eggs, etc. etc. etc.  I don't believe that oils are perfectly free of proteins, having had allergic reactions to take-out food containing suspect oils.  Intolerances that cause GI upset can be just about anything.  And just because a food was OK 6 months ago, doesn't mean that is OK today, especially with young children (and vice versa, IME).  Makes the problem insanely difficult sometimes.

This is what scares me the most :(  I think the thing that is hardest for me to avoid is the corn because it's so prevalent and not required to be on labels.  Although I avoid all of the obvious sources and components, I feel like he is sensitive to some of the derivatives like xanthum gum, xylitol, and things like this, but it's so hard to figure out!
It's also hard for me to gauge just how big of an issue these things are for him...and I know from keeping the diary before that there is a pretty good lag time between when the symptoms are most severe and when the food was eaten...and if it's something he ate directly or it's something that I ate and then he nursed.  So it just makes the problem so complex.

Other things can be constipating: certain foods, like sweet potato and squash, were constipating for my daughter.  Also, she was freakishly sensitive to iron.  Too much of some types of calcium supplements can cause constipation in some people.  Rice can be constipating, even without sensitivities, as can all bananas except dead-ripe ones, and other fruits besides.  Pears and prunes are loosening.  I used to stew prunes in water until extremely soft, then pureed them for a snack dd loved as a baby.  

He will sometimes eat prune pieces if I put them in granola bite type snacks.  And this also highlights an issue, I don't know if he's just constipated, or if there is a deeper problem that's causing the constipation.  He does have some pretty good allergy shiners that seem to wax and wane, but never go away. 

Even if you fix the dietary culprit, you are probably going to be healing his fear of using the potty for a lot longer.  That one is pretty well ingrained, and it will take some gentleness on your part to cure him of it.  

Thanks for all of your notes, it really means a lot to hear a lot to get a response!  I feel like I remember seeing some of your posts a while back...Your daughter has a lot of allergies right? And then you had another baby....how is that baby doing? I have a fear that nursing is making things worse for DS, and it makes me nervous about nursing the new baby.  I'm quite sure that there is a leaky gut thing going on with myself and DS, so I am apprehensive about how that may be passed on to the new one, and if they will have issues to.  We intended to wait a little longer to get pregnant again, but it just wasn't in the cards.  Thanks!

[SweetSilver]

Thanks for all of your notes, it really means a lot to hear a lot to get a response!  I feel like I remember seeing some of your posts a while back...Your daughter has a lot of allergies right? And then you had another baby....how is that baby doing? I have a fear that nursing is making things worse for DS, and it makes me nervous about nursing the new baby.  I'm quite sure that there is a leaky gut thing going on with myself and DS, so I am apprehensive about how that may be passed on to the new one, and if they will have issues to.  We intended to wait a little longer to get pregnant again, but it just wasn't in the cards.  Thanks!

I'm sure you remember me correctly.

My second daughter nursed like a champ and never had any troubles as a baby.  

As a toddler (around 2.5yo) we started dealing with vomiting issues at bedtime, and she often complained that hurt tummy "hurt".  Hm.  But no visible GI troubles, and elimination diets turned up nothing.  At the time we took her to dd1's allergist because she did have bad reactions to dogs, and I have a lot of allergies as well.  No food allergies were turned up (tested for top 8, plus oats and rice) but dog allergy was confirmed, and dust mites.  She has at least one other environmental allergy, probably some tree.  She's 6yo now, and doesn't vomit at night any more, but her tummy gets sensitive even for simple colds, and she does then.  She has no dietary limits.

DD1's allergies to dairy and wheat are still severe, even while milder allergies to eggs and corn seem to have subsided.  While we've diversified dd's food, unfortunately, she has added a honeybee allergy to this list as of last summer (no reaction first 3 honeybee stings in her life, foot swelled up badly on her 4th).  She is almost 8yo.

I would start by eliminating dairy entirely again, then adding it back in without making *any other* dietary changes.  It's possible that you could see a difference in about a week.  (1 week off dairy, add butter back in next day.)  If no noticeable difference, then either you need to try a longer elimination, or it really isn't an issue.

This would probably be the easiest change to make, since the butter is really the only dairy we do.

When in doubt, I prefer the simplest and most obvious place to start.

[BabySmurf]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

I'm sure you remember me correctly.

My second daughter nursed like a champ and never had any troubles as a baby.  

As a toddler (around 2.5yo) we started dealing with vomiting issues at bedtime, and she often complained that hurt tummy "hurt".  Hm.  But no visible GI troubles, and elimination diets turned up nothing.  At the time we took her to dd1's allergist because she did have bad reactions to dogs, and I have a lot of allergies as well.  No food allergies were turned up (tested for top 8, plus oats and rice) but dog allergy was confirmed, and dust mites.  She has at least one other environmental allergy, probably some tree.  She's 6yo now, and doesn't vomit at night any more, but her tummy gets sensitive even for simple colds, and she does then.  She has no dietary limits.

DD1's allergies to dairy and wheat are still severe, even while milder allergies to eggs and corn seem to have subsided.  While we've diversified dd's food, unfortunately, she has added a honeybee allergy to this list as of last summer (no reaction first 3 honeybee stings in her life, foot swelled up badly on her 4th).  She is almost 8yo.

Thanks for sharing your story - it's hard because you see so many bits and pieces of other peoples problems, but rarely see how they turn out. That's interesting that you didn't find a "cause" for the vomiting...it must have been tough trying to figure it out!  It's also interesting the way your DD!'s allergies can morph - it definitely keeps things more complicated.

When in doubt, I prefer the simplest and most obvious place to start.

That's a really solid philosophy - and that's why I posted here, sometimes you need someone to bonk you over the head with the obvious.  I suppose that if I am suspecting corn derived ingredients for a reaction, then butter should definitely be on my radar! I guess it shows which food i prefer. 

I do wonder if maybe the allergy shiners are just due to the cat or something.  And if the poop thing is just a poop thing.  I have actually been battling similar things my entire life.  It's been fascinating to me to see the effect of changing my diet to help my son, but also how it effects me.  I don't think that we have actual allergies, and maybe it's not even food intolerances.  Looking at the foods we avoid, they are foods that can give EVERYONE problems.  Most of the symptoms affect behavior and how we feel - I am guessing that the effects are similar for my DS as they are for me.  I have had significant improvement with mood, energy, ability to sleep, social anxiety, brain fog, bloating...a lot of "nuances".  I am leaning more and more toward just improving our gut flora and eating clean food.  (and continuing to avoid the foods I know are issues).  And making sure DS gets tons of water. 

Thanks for all of the suggestions, these things can really drive a person mad!

[JRoberge]

You say you removed wheat, but did you remove all gluten? Including oats, unless they are gluten free? Definitely remove the butter - don't even use ghee, just to be sure you're dairy free 100%. Your son is allergic to the same as my son - gluten, dairy, soy, corn....and tree nuts (almonds, hazlenuts, walnuts, and pecans). Have you thought about nuts? Eggs are another big one - as are beans and peas - all part of the legume family with peanuts.

There is an excellent book that helps with elimination diets, if you're looking to go that route, which I think you should. "Dealing with Allergies in Babies and Children"

The probiotic - are you 100% sure it's free of dairy, soy, and gluten? They usually contain one form or another of dairy or soy and it's very hard, but possible to find it without.

Have you looked into starting fish oil? There are some great low mercury varieties - that would help him poo and would be great for his gut.

[Jordan Wildman]

Have you tried eliminating corn. My DS is allergic to what seems like everything and we follow a paleo diet but corn and anything derived from corn are a major no no for us.

[BabySmurf]

Originally Posted by JRoberge 

You say you removed wheat, but did you remove all gluten? Including oats, unless they are gluten free? Definitely remove the butter - don't even use ghee, just to be sure you're dairy free 100%. Your son is allergic to the same as my son - gluten, dairy, soy, corn....and tree nuts (almonds, hazlenuts, walnuts, and pecans). Have you thought about nuts? Eggs are another big one - as are beans and peas - all part of the legume family with peanuts.

There is an excellent book that helps with elimination diets, if you're looking to go that route, which I think you should. "Dealing with Allergies in Babies and Children"

The probiotic - are you 100% sure it's free of dairy, soy, and gluten? They usually contain one form or another of dairy or soy and it's very hard, but possible to find it without.

Have you looked into starting fish oil? There are some great low mercury varieties - that would help him poo and would be great for his gut.

I did remove all gluten, and all grains except for rice.  As I've been adding more grains back, I think really the only thing that we don't have a real problem with is rice.  That's not to say that the rice may not be binding for him, but I don't *think* that it's a problem.  I did challenge both eggs and nuts way back when he was exclusively nursing and I was keeping the food diary, and they didn't seem to be an issue either.  The legumes...I don't think I have completely eliminated and challenged, but besides peanut butter, we tend to stay away from anyway.  They cause both of us digestional upset, but don't *appear* to make his other symptoms any worse...Then again we have never really been symptom free either.

I will definitely look into that book. ...so you think it does sound like an allergy/intolerance issue? I swear, my DH thinks I am cuckoo and my MIL is drooling over being able to bring him out to eat at Friendly's for some mac n' cheese and an ice cream sundae....I feel like I AM crazy sometimes! 

That's interesting with the probiotics, the one I have says "no wheat, no eggs, no corn no msg, no soy, no artificial flavors" and there are no milk ingredients listed...but it doesn't actually say no dairy.  Interesting.  For a while he was doing a good job eating more probiotic foods, so I wasn't as worried about the probiotics themselves, but he's transferred out of that mood, so I've been adding them in. 

The fish oil is also something that we did for a while but he absolutely refuses to take anymore.  (Where as with the sauerkraut, he will try it occasionally and change his mind).  It didn't seem to have an impact on his poop though.  I do think that it's a really good thing for his to take, regardless, I just have to figure out another way.

How was your son while nursing? DId things get better or worse when you stopped? ANd have things changed, or have his triggers and symptoms stayed consistent?

[BabySmurf]

Originally Posted by Jordan Wildman 

Have you tried eliminating corn. My DS is allergic to what seems like everything and we follow a paleo diet but corn and anything derived from corn are a major no no for us.

Yes, we do avoid corn.  I have been trying to challenge the corn derived ingredients, but it's been difficult since I can't get him to baseline.  I think that SweetSilver is right though, that the oils from a particular food still hold onto the proteins...so my first step has been taking out the butter.  Then I can worry about how sensitive DS may be from other corn derived ingredients.  We do stay away from things like maltodextrin, but I haven't been able to figure out things like xantham gum...I also need to look into how those things are made (derived from what).  Generally I like to eat a whole foods diet, so that eliminates most boxed stuff anyway, but I do need a break every so often!