Night Waking

[modestmothering]

Hi mamas!

I am hoping to hear some stories of babies who, like mine, wake up about five times a night and never nap during the day longer than 20 or 30 minutes.  Hopefully, these stories will end happily...as in, after a year or so baby started to sleep through the night and I never let her cry it out...or, around six months baby started napping for an hour...or baby never started sleeping more but I suddenly developed the superhuman ability to go for months without a wink of sleep.

Background:

DD is five months old.  She is breastfed and has always woken to eat in the night between 5-8 times.  Naps are like pulling teeth even though she is often tired.  I try to put her to sleep before she shows signs of tiredness; I try to nap with her once a day in the same bed; I try to take her for walks in the stroller when the weather isn't too cold; I try to nurse her to sleep.  All of these things work eventually and I get a blessed 20 minutes.  

If you had a situation like this, when did it change for you?  

[Lauran520]

Hi There!
 

I have an almost-9-month-old son, who is doing the same thing.  He is a very busy guy; he takes one nap per day for 20 minutes to 2 hours (if I'm lucky).  He has never slept through the night, and I'm in no rush to make him.  He wakes up about every 1 1/2 to 3 hours to nurse and falls right back to sleep.  He doesn't seemed to be distressed in any way, even though he's teething.  He is just so on the go, I get the impression that he is so afraid to miss out on anything that he tries so hard not to sleep.

I am a SAHM; we cosleep, and he is getting some solids, but primarily nurses. He's a happy little dude who just doesn't sleep much.

I don't have any recommendations or advice, just letting you know that I'm in the same boat.  I count my blessings that he's healthy and good natured and otherwise an easy boy.

Keep up the good work mama!

[assumeloom]

My dd is six months and we were in the same boat. Naps were never very long, except on the weekends when she'd happily sleep on dh for hours.
Right now she usually takes a 2-1/2 hour nap for me in the morning during the week. It's great! A lot of times I nap to but on the rare occasion I'm not tired it's nice to get a few things done around the house.
She still doesn't take an afternoon nap but I'm wondering if maybe her morning nap negates the need for one. She does seem to fall asleep while nursing in the afternoon but if I try and put her down she wakes right up.
Ok, some things that I've tried and that have worked. Right now we use a swing for naps. Sometimes she'll go in there awake and put herself to sleep other times she won't. Sometimes she nurses to sleep for naps other times I rock her to sleep with her back against my chest. Life right now is a big "what will work today" game. Good luck!

[assumeloom]

forgot to mention night times are miserable. Luckily my husband gets up with her a lot at night. She wakes a lot and will fall back to sleep but sometimes wakes the second we try putting her back in her crib.

[avismama24]

Modest Mothering,

Something to think about...as odd as it sounds sleep leads to more sleep in babies. Babies, actually all of us, when we do not get enough sleep or in the case of babies who rely on a caregiver to help them sleep, produce the stress hormone cortisol. A higher production level of cortisol will keep a baby from sleeping soundly or for a pro-longed period of time. Usually babies jacked up on cortisol will eventually crash hard but only to awake less than 30 minutes later. ALso for a baby to complete a sleep cycle they really need 45 min of uninterrupted sleep, 20 mintue cat naps don't really do the trick and the baby just builds up more cotisol.

What is your nap time routine like? Do you have a set schediule, can you keep a journal of your DD sleeping cues and times for 7 to 10 days to see if you notice a pattern? A 5 month old should take atleast 2 naps a day totallying 3-3.5 hours (in a perfect world, I know, but this is the goal.....again sleep breeds sleep!)

As far as the night time waking that is A LOT. It seems she is waking at every partial arousal (which typically occurs every 2 hours)That may just be DD temperment, in which case I hope you have a good support system...but it may just be a learned habit. As adults who know how to get rest we often forget that sleeping and resting are LEARNED behaviors. We need to teach...NOT train our children how to sleep. They do not know what healthy sleep patterns are. Do you always bf dd when she wakes in the night? At 5 months she does not need to eat that many times in a night, but if you always nurse her she may just expect it (there is nothing wrong with this IMHO, just that you may be super tired). If you woke up in the middle of the night and you knew that all you had to do was makea little wimper and someone would bring you a hot cup of milk, wouldn't you do it  There are ways to soothe without nursing, that lead to her leaening, there is no need to cry out here bc I'm not getting anything that good so I am just going to go back to slepp.

Anyway....that was a lot of questions. I love talking about baby sleep. Hope some of this helps!

[modestmothering]

Thank you all for your replies!  I am really at a loss when it comes to sleep.  

DD is not on a schedule at all.  I tried many times it just didn't seem to work and I felt like I didn't want to force the issue.  Do you use a schedule?  When did you start it?  How did you plan it out?  Does it work?  Did it makes things change?

I feed her every time she wakes up.  I have tried giving her a paci or rocking her or bouncing her.  None of these things work, no matter how persistent I am.  And I am tired after the third or forth wake-up so I just nurse her.  She actually usually eats quite a bit, each time.  I feel like she is hungry.  Should I keep nursing her when she wakes up?  Why not?  What should I do instead?

She has slept 5 hours at a time a few times in her life.  But it's random.  Usually, it is every 2 hours and has been that way since she was born.  I am very tired! 

Our naptime routine doesn't really exist.  I sing her a song and nurse her to sleep and then lay her down, after pulling down the shades and putting on white noise. Do you have a nap time routine?  Does it work?  When did you start it?

Our bedtime routine usually gets her to sleep quickly.  Crash and burn.  She is up in half an hour and I have to put her down again.  Then, it's up every two hours. 

I am really looking for advice.  I have read the "common" procedure: get her on a schedule and make her lay in her crib for her naptime even if she is awake.  Put her back to sleep without the use of props or nursing and let her learn to sleep on her own.  Do these things actually work?  SHOULD I be doing this?  Have you?

[avismama24]

Originally Posted by modestmothering 

Thank you all for your replies!  I am really at a loss when it comes to sleep.  

DD is not on a schedule at all.  I tried many times it just didn't seem to work and I felt like I didn't want to force the issue.  Do you use a schedule?  When did you start it?  How did you plan it out?  Does it work?  Did it makes things change?

I feed her every time she wakes up.  I have tried giving her a paci or rocking her or bouncing her.  None of these things work, no matter how persistent I am.  And I am tired after the third or forth wake-up so I just nurse her.  She actually usually eats quite a bit, each time.  I feel like she is hungry.  Should I keep nursing her when she wakes up?  Why not?  What should I do instead?

She has slept 5 hours at a time a few times in her life.  But it's random.  Usually, it is every 2 hours and has been that way since she was born.  I am very tired! 

Our naptime routine doesn't really exist.  I sing her a song and nurse her to sleep and then lay her down, after pulling down the shades and putting on white noise. Do you have a nap time routine?  Does it work?  When did you start it?

Our bedtime routine usually gets her to sleep quickly.  Crash and burn.  She is up in half an hour and I have to put her down again.  Then, it's up every two hours. 

I am really looking for advice.  I have read the "common" procedure: get her on a schedule and make her lay in her crib for her naptime even if she is awake.  Put her back to sleep without the use of props or nursing and let her learn to sleep on her own.  Do these things actually work?  SHOULD I be doing this?  Have you?

Do you use a schedule? When did you start it? How did you plan it out? Does it work? Did it makes things change?

Yes we use a schedule and started one around the time DS was 6/7 months old. This was a natural process for us, as I personally am no a schedule type person, but DS seemed to want this type of structure. I started a journal and kept brief notes in it, DS seemed woke at 6 am for the day, showed "sleepy signs" at 8 am and feel asleep for am nap at 8:15 and slept for 1 hour, etc., etc. This really helped me to organize our day and base it on HIM, and not the clock, clock watching is stupid and a waste of time IMHO, watch your baby.

DS is pretty much like clock work now give or take a half hours on either side. He is up for the day at 6:30/7, 7-9ish eat and play with mama, 9ish morning nap, usually 45min to 1 hour. Up by 10:30 eats solids, play, exercise with Mama outside ;) 12:30 milk and ready for nap about 1, nap from 1-2:30 ish. DS stays up from 2:30-6:30 most afternoons. We have dinner about 5, take a tubby, hang out with daddy who just gets home on the couch and cuddle, read a few books and then bed time, whenever DS make his "sleepy signs" most nights between 6 and 7 o'clock. DS SLEEPS THROUGH the night, and has sense he was 8 months old. I think the predictability of things really helps to settle him.

I should add that this probably seems really ridgid and set in stone, and it really does not feel like that to me. I follow DS, not any clock or any agenda and after a lot of observation can predict what he needs. I also find bc he is mostly on a good schedule that when we miss a day to do something special, stay up late, miss a nap, etc it is no big deal, and he rebounds very quickly!

Should I keep nursing her when she wakes up? Why not? What should I do instead?

YES. I would keep nursing her. She does need atleast some of those calories, she is under 6 months. I can relate to the "I just feed her at every wakening, bc that is all that works." DS was the same way, when he woke up he was hungry and wanted to eat. The only time this would be different is if Dad went to him first. Is this an option for you all. For example is DD went to bed at 7 pm and woke at 9ish and Dad went to her to calm her down and then she stayed sleeping until 11ish that would give you a decent chunk of time to get some rest. Just a thought. DD is still young and I would keep offering her the boob when it is you, she needs it for comfort, as challenging as that may be to you!

Do you have a nap time routine? Does it work? When did you start it?

Yes routine, routine, routine, that is the name of the game at this stage. Your LO is just at the age when it is appropriate to really implement a routine. We have a routine all day, but around naps, we go upstairs, change a diaper, turn off the lights, turn on the fan, read a few books, sing, cuddle, and then I lie him down in his bed AWAKE and walk out. It is important that babies have the opportunity to go to sleep drowsy, but awake. If they always fall asleep at the boob then they don't learn how to put themselves back to sleep on their own. DS is now a pro, because he has had a lot of practice. He will "wake" about every 2 hours in the night, stir, maybe even cry out and then settle himself wo either me of DH.

*Lastly my very good friend is a professional sleep coach and she is AWESOME, and helped me a ton. She will work with you remotely if you are interested. She just finshed a training specifically on babies ages 4-5 months (the most common time that parent's bonk from NO SLEEP) Let me know if you would like me to connect the two of you!

[avismama24]

SORRY for typos I was to tired/lazy to spell check, etc!

[clairebear3]

More commiserations here.

My DD slept like the perfect babe, 10pm until 6am until the 4 month sleep regression.  Then she would wake up constantly rolling back and forth in her crib, loosing her paci, trying to get on her side, being stuck too close to the bars etc.  That 6 weeks was just terrible.  We started co-sleeping after the first waking and this helped, although we both really had to learn to sleep next to each other.  She's now 7 1/2 mos and we had a fairly predictable pattern where she would be down for the night around 19.30, wake for the first time between 12-2am, come into bed with me and literally be asleep by the time her head hit the mattress.  She would then sleep until about 5ish, then I would sit up a bit and lay her on me, she would then sleep until 7.15ish.  A few weeks ago her first bottom teeth came in, it really wasn't all that bad but the week after they broke through she was really suffering with them, really miserable during the day too.  Then it seemed to get better during the day but the nights have been horrific.  Yesterday was the worst.  Down at 19.30, awake and in bed with me at 22.30 (I hadn't gotten to sleep yet), awake and laying on me at 1.30, between 1.30-5.15 constantly laying on me up right, not happy, laying down, not happy, rinse and repeat continually until she was awake for the day at 5.15.  Tried putting her in her crib to play so I could just doze, lasted all of 3 minutes.  At one point broke down in tears from being so tired, normally I can handle being tired but most times I get a huge headache too.

Dh has to get up for work at 4.30 so I really can't ask him to help, he is also a really heavy sleeper and I wouldn't like DD to lay close to him in bed.  I am paranoid about her getting under the duvet so I sleep in a sleeping bag, really uncomfy and cold.

I know no one IRL who i can relate to, everyone is very strict and does CIO etc.  My best friend has a daughter who is 9 months older, sleeps 6pm until 8am and takes three big naps, she did CIO with her first but has just lucked out with this one.  She was complaining that she's teething and sleeps so much she can't go out!

DD only naps 3 x 30 mins.  I have tried raising her bed, more or less food, more or less layers, white noise, pain killers for her teeth etc.  Maybe she will start crawling soon?  I'm out of ideas.  I have read the no cry sleep solution, am too tired to try it but don't really think it will work.  I try to avoid getting up and walking around because I am such a bad sleeper I don't know if I will be able to sleep after-wards.  Sometimes in the middle of the night I just pray that Elizabeth Pantly will just appear and take over!

I'm not breastfeeding anymore which has it's pros and cons, I don't have that quick fix by the hand but I also don't smell of milk.  DD is now FF and has solids so those myths about starting solids to help baby sleep are just that.

We have had a good bedtime routine since DD was 2 months.  I can get her to sleep no problem it's just keeping her asleep.

I'm just a wreck today, downstairs isn't too bad but upstairs looks like a bomb went off, hairs a mess, nails are a mess etc etc ...

[MamaBookworm]

My DD was like yours until about 15 months or so. Even after I weaned her at 12 months she still seemed to need a bottle several times a night. Then something just clicked around 18 months and suddenly she just slept all night. Easy to put to sleep, easy to put back to sleep if she did wake up. She's 3 now and still awesome at sleeping. She goes to sleep in her own bed and if she wakes up at night, just comes to our room and crawls in with us. 

I would say it was 4-5 times until about 10 months, and then 2-3 times until 15 months (on the best nights). I think she had some reflux issues, though, because there were times when she was much more wakeful than that and seemed very uncomfortable. Other times, she just seemed terrifically hungry.  It didn't feel right to not feed her at night, though.  

I about died from the sleep deprivation (I was working full time for a chunk of that period), and actually developed some serious health problems. So take care of yourself! Do whatever you can to stay healthy, exercise, eat right, nap whenever possible, etc. 

It seemed like it would never end at the time, but now it feels like it was just a blip on the radar, and don't kill me for saying this, 'cuz I can remember that I'm-so-tired-my-head-is-spinning feeling, but I'm kind of grateful that I got all that time with her in my arms when she was a baby. 

[modestmothering]

I appreciate your replies!  

I suspect that DD is going through her 6-month spurt.  She was born three weeks late and always seems to hit the spurts --- HARD -- about three weeks early.  We would be on day 6, now, of the growth spurt.  Last night she woke up every hour to nurse.  I have noticed a huge weight gain in her and it seems that every morning she wakes up with new skills.  I am an absolute zombie. But then again, I notice that she is able to take longer naps during the day.  

I read up on the spurt and it seems that it usually only last for 3 days to a week.  I have a feeling hers is going to last longer.  Can I keep this up?  

[LilyTiger]

I want to bump this to see if anyone has a magic pill I can take.  Or just more commiseration? 

My daughter was a pretty good sleeper (waking 2x a night for feedings and then right back to sleep again) until the four month sleep regression.  We've been at waking every 2-3 hours now for three weeks and I'm desperately afraid this is my future until she weans.  I pulled her back into bed when this first started happening, but because we have a full size bed and no room for a larger one, DH has been forced to sleep on the couch.  Co-sleeping also isn't that great anyway since she does gymnastics in her sleep or roots into my arm/boob/back the entire night, so I have to move further and further across the bed as the night goes on.  We're up against a bit of a crunch since she's outgrowing her bassinet that fits next to the bed and then next step is the crib in the nursery.  I'm not sure she's ready for that if this night waking continues.

The biggest problem, as a PP said, isn't the feedings it's that she'll wake up every two hours and not be able to put herself back to sleep.  She had a big feeding at ten last night and then was up at midnight.  She wasn't even hungry, but I couldn't get her back to sleep without bringing her back to bed, which results in more of the same.  She occasionally goes down for naps drowsy, though when I'm this tired I usually just nurse her to sleep because it's quicker.  I guess I should stop that.

Please tell me I'll get a good sleeper back eventually?  Avismomma's post was really helpful, but any other words of wisdom that don't involve letting her cry all night would be much appreciated.

[modestmothering]

Wow.  

My DD, the past few weeks, has been getting less and less sleep at night.  

When she was born she was up every 2-3 hours.  Then around 3 months she had a couple nights of sleeping 6-8 hours.  Then back to 2-3.  

But THEN right around 20 weeks, she started doing 1-2 hours at a time.  And now, I am very lucky if she is down for 30 minutes at a time.  ALL. NIGHT. LONG.

I am not sure what to do.  I am a zombie.  I feel bad for myself.  I get up.  Nurse her.  Rock her.  Give her a pacifier. Pick up, put down.  Try patting back to sleep.  Shushing.  Nothing.  Nothing. Nothing.  

She turned six months today.  Last night was the worst night she's had.  I got, maybe, an hour and half of broken sleep.

Big hugs to the mamas.

[modestmothering]

I read this thread on Mothering from about a year ago.  It was helpful:  http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1321352/6-month-old-waking-up-every-hour-please-help

[frioct3]

Maybe last night was teething? My son has been a bad sleeper since about 4.5 months, and the worst few nights were just before his teeth pushed through. Maybe try some baby Advil tonight if it starts out like that again?

[MDoc]

Unfortunately there is no one perfect answer for most things with babies. It sounds like more than anything you need a good nights sleep. If were you I wouldn't worry about wether she "should" be nursed back to sleep everytime or not. Just do what you and your baby need to get through this. I cosleep with my daughter. She wakes a few times a night (to be honest i don't even know how many times she wakes because she just rolls over, finds the boob and nurses back to sleep - I only half wake up). I would recommend that you try sleeping with your baby at night and just see if it gets you more sleep.
For naps, if I want my daughter to stay down for a nap longer than 30 min I usually have to hold her or lay with her. (she is 8 mo).

Remember every baby is different and you just have to try different things to see what works for you and your baby.

[LilyTiger]

We tried a new tactic last night and put my daughter in her crib at 7:30pm when she was tired.  I fed her again when she woke briefly at 9:30 and then went to bed myself.  DH took the first feeding with a bottle of expressed milk (1:30) and brought her in to me for the second (4:30ish).

Each time she ate a lot (4 oz with the first, emptying a full boob with the second), so it wasn't just comfort waking. And then she pretty much went back to sleep. I was careful not to leave her in bed with me and she went right to sleep in the bassinet in our room. We're still on a roughly every three hour feeding schedule, but if we alternate the first feeding so I can get some sleep, I think we can manage.

In our case, it genuinely seems to help her sleep to have her own space, and one where she can sort of squiggle around a lot, rather than the more limited bassinet (or the even more limited space next to me where she kicks all night). She also went down for every nap yesterday drowsy but not asleep and I used the genius crib soother my mom got her for Christmas.  So I think with a mix of husband, modern technology, and naps we might all survive.  Of course, this is after one night, but it's the first night I've gotten six hours of straight sleep in at least a month, so I'm hoping we can pull off this alternating feedings trick for the long-term (and that she doesn't revert to her every 1.5 to 2 hour waking schedule).

[clairebear3]

Originally Posted by LilyTiger 
So I think with a mix of husband, modern technology, and naps we might all survive.  Of course, this is after one night, but it's the first night I've gotten six hours of straight sleep in at least a month, so I'm hoping we can pull off this alternating feedings trick for the long-term (and that she doesn't revert to her every 1.5 to 2 hour waking schedule).

Yay I hope things carry on down a good path for you!

We've come on in leaps and bounds in just over a week, I can't believe I'm even posting this.

DD had been waking up more and more, her first night waking was at 22.30 just after I got to bed so I hadn't even been able to sleep a bit first, she would never settle back into her crib so she came in the bed with us but the whole night she would wake up and not seem to get comfortable, want to be on me off me all the time.  I would try and keep her really quite not to wake DH but of course it did, I could tell he was getting more and more fed up with the lack of sleep as he works shifts.  One day I decided enough already I have to try something new.  The health visitor had suggested that we should put her into her own room as we were probably all waking each other up, DD goes to bed first, then me, then DH (usually watches Ipod in bed) then DH is out again at 4.20am.  Initially I balked at the idea but on the third day of a huge head ache I moved her bed and set up the camera etc.  My head ache got so bad that I had to ask DH to take over for the night for the first time, DD woke up as usual and DH spent hours rocking her back to sleep but every time he put her in her crib she would wake after a couple of minutes.  I lasted until about 2am listening to it and then I took her into bed with me (there is a single bed in her room).  That night it really sunk in that our problem is purely that she can't fall asleep by herself, she has always slept in the car, pram or been rocked to sleep and then transferred to her crib.

DD would normally be up around 7.30, nap at 9.30, 13.00 and 16.00 but these naps were only 30 mins.  I would wait for the first yawn or eye rub, whisk her upstairs, rock/walk around with her and she would wake EXACTLY 30 mins later.  We have a congregational meeting (we're JW) on Sunday mornings and I used to take her out back and walk around with her until she was asleep but the last month or so every time I walked back into the main room, with the noise of the speaker etc she would wake up straight away, I decided to save us the stress and see what would happen if I did nothing.  She is always super excited and looking around when we are there, at about 10.45 she just wasn't happy to be on us or playing on the floor so I put her into her pram with her paci and she just fell right asleep *shock*.  Since then I have tried to get her to fall asleep in her crib.  I have to wait until she's really tired though.  Her first nap would be at 9.30 but I start the process at 10.15ish.  I make sure she's dry, put her sleeping bag on, hold her and look out of the window, just be calm, walk around a bit in the quiet holding her upright, put down the blinds and put her in her crib with her fav bear who has a light up tummy.  Then I go next door to the bathroom with the baby monitor.  She normally starts playing, rolling around, doing crazy stunts and sometimes she gets herself in a crazy position and I have to go and straighten her out.  She can get quite frustrated and I'm having to learn that it's not the end of the world if she's frustrated to not to react like she is still a few weeks old and pounce on her every time she makes a noise.  If she starts getting very agitated or nearly crying I help her to lay on her side and start rubbing her back.  I have to pick my moments because if she's not ready me touching her seems to make it worse.  After a few minutes her eyes started to close and she fell asleep, I couldn't believe it had worked without any crying, I was so shocked!

When I used to rock her to sleep she would often really fight the last nap at 16.00, she still does and often won't nap until after her milk at 17.00 which seems too late to nap so I wonder if she will soon drop this nap all together?  I have been able to get her down in her crib every time since and it just seems to have flipped a switch with her, one night she was down at 19.30, woke at 1.30 and I got her back to sleep in her crib, then she woke up at 5.30 and I took her in bed with me (I'm really missing it) and then she slept until 7.45.  I feel like I'm reborn!  Last night she woke up at 3.30 and I went in with her and she slept until about 7.30.  It seems because she's not with me most of the night that she is then super cuddly with me and sleeps soundly until morning.  Yesterday I put her down for her second nap and she seemed really more tired than normal, she laid straight on her side in bed, no fussing, I was in the next room with the monitor talking to DH getting ready to go in in a few mins when she started her acrobatics when I peeped through the door and she had fallen asleep without me even being there or rubbing her back, first time ever!  She has also been napping more, today she napped 1.15hours, 45 mins, then 30 mins, she normally naps 3 x 30 mins!

Was it that she needed her own space?  Were we waking each other up?  Was I over reacting to every grunt in my sleep autonomic state?  Or did she just need a quiet place to herself?  I don't know but I feel like I am living a normal life again.  The first night I was so sad thinking our bed sharing days were over but I have still been in there every night   I also quite hope that when she is older and in her big girl bed she will feel that she will want to come in with us at some point in the night, I'm planning on making her a little nest next to our bed then.

I'm not saying that everyone should ship their babies off to their own rooms at 8 months but if it's not working out I don't think it can do any harm to try something new.  Worst case scenario was that I moved her back after trying for a few days.  She has always been a happy baby but she seems really content at the mo.  I think getting some solid hours in is really helping her system.  She has a butter sandwich with the crusts cut off with us at dinnertime (18.15pm) and three times this week she has fallen asleep whilst eating.  We have never seen this kind of behavior from our LO or had to put her to bed so early!

Maybe it's her age and she was just ready?  I don't know but I wish everyone who is having problems so much luck.  Everyone stops cutting you slack when the LO's are a few months old thinking you should have everything running like clock work, and it's especially hard when everyone is recommending CIO all the time.  

[modestmothering]

Wow Claire!  Congrats!  That is fantastic news!  

[Heather Lyn]

Same thing happened with us.  He was in our room until 9 months; wasn't sleeping well; I put him in the room next door and he started sleeping WAY better.  We were waking him up.  Now at 16 months he's more than welcome in our bed, but he doesn't want to be there.  Not all kids want to co-sleep.  Who knew??