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I just don't understand... - Page 2

post #21 of 77

I agree with mommariffic that the gun ownership really only is a sliver of the story here. Of course, I don't think mental health care access is the biggest part of the story either. This child had affluent parents who had access to mental healthcare. He wasn't diagnosed with a mental illness so far as anyone knows. Honestly the mom sounds like she kept him isolated and didn't do any of the myriad things there are to help people with Asperger's to function better. She pulled him from school when his teachers had concerns about his behavior, and then society lost track of him until he was shooting up an elementary school. There are a lot of problems that contributed to what happened, but I don't think that the guns were the primary problem.

 

Oh, I'm not a gun owner, but the reason that people have those weapons typically is because they believe in the right of Americans to defend against an insurgent government. While the founding fathers didn't envision the kinds of weapons we have now, the military also didn't have those weapons. If we were today to need to form a private militia for protection, it would make sense to do so only with the same weapons that the other side would have. I personally do not trust police and military personnel enough to think that they are the only people who should have access to certain types of guns.

 

As for the OP's question about having guns, I grew up in a house with loaded guns. Everyone in my family hunted. We never touched the guns or were curious about them. All of us learned to shoot at very young ages, and because we saw what guns could do via hunting, we were never confused about their power.

post #22 of 77

Yes yes yes! I saw several of my Facebook friends saying they would "feel comfortable" if the only people who had weapons were police and military...really? How can someone with half a brain even consider that? There are very few police offers I trust -- having had several family members in the police force I've learned that most of them are quite corrupt, disgusting human beings. Would I want them to be the only ones with gun privilege? No way!

 

We are living in a scary world - things like this are happening but I also feel that the media WANTS US to shout "Yes! Guns are the problem!" so that we can take the heat off big Pharm. 

post #23 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommariffic View Post

We are living in a scary world - things like this are happening but I also feel that the media WANTS US to shout "Yes! Guns are the problem!" so that we can take the heat off big Pharm. 

 

The news media wants us to shout and be fearful and angry about a great number of things.  Citizens and policy makers arguing with each other about gun policy sells sells sells. And about mental health services and the violent gun culture. But I'm not seeing the connection to big pharma.  How/why would the news media want to take the heat off drug companies? And what do the drug companies have to do with this string of mass killings? I hope I don't sound too confrontational; I really want to know what you mean here.

post #24 of 77

No no it's okay! I'm about to have a playdate than doctor, but I will post more later with some links to articles I've been reading..that way I make much more sense ;) 

post #25 of 77
Thread Starter 

Hey guys,

I feel like we are diverging from the original question/discussion here.

Yes, mental health is so important. But remember, what I am trying to understand is WHY so many sane law-abiding Americans go and buy seriously scary arms (those are the ones I am naming as having a "wild side"). That is what I am trying to understand.

I feel we let ourselves start arguing whether gun ownership should be allowed, etc... whether it is not more important to take care of the mentally ill.

But I never actually started questioning the legality of gun ownership or the level of mental hygiene of the USA. My questions was and still is about the MOTIVATION to go and buy arms. So many complex advanced rifles. So much ammo.

That's all.

 

Now, i'd like to stay I have lived in 3 different countries. Not just for a month or two, but seriously lived there for an extended period of time.

One of them is pretty poor and treats its mentally ill people horribly. Bellow and beyond any level of human compassion or decency.

I have cried hysterically upon seeing articles and documentaries about how the mentally ill in that country are treated. Trust me, there is NOTHING like this in MOST of the USA. Nothing to the best of my knowledge.

And yet, there has never been a school shooting in the country I am referring to that I know about. 

Now, how do you explain that?

If anything, there is physical violence against the mentally ill in that country.

I have with my own eyes seen 4 teenage regular sane high school boys in that country beat up a slightly mentally ill boy of their age because he is that- different. On the street. in front of a bakery.

That is considered normal behavior in that country. It's something that I have no words to describe.

ANd yet, never a school shooting or ANY kind of shooting I have ever heard of from a mentally ill person in that country.

Please, please explain that to me, if you can.

But even better, why not explain WHY the heck so many of our fellow Americans are arming themselves to the teeth.

The "zombie apocalypse" fear above seems very plausible. And the cowboy country idea too.

And yet, cowboy country is LONG over and a zombie apocalypse exists only in the movies.... I am looking for answers.

post #26 of 77
I don't think there is just one answer as to why people are buying weapons like assault rifles. Sure, some of the people might have bad intentions, but I think the majority of Americans who buy guns are interested in protecting their freedom. Someone mentioned that people might need to form militia groups. Some Americans are afraid that the government is going to get out of hand and will need to be overthrown. Allowing citizens of a country to own weapons can help keep government in check.

     I personally like that people have the freedom to own weapons here. Do I want an assault rifle? No, but I want the right to own one.

 

 

    If you honestly want to know why people are buying assault rifles, why don't you contact some gun clubs and ask people? I don't think you're going to get the answer you're looking for on mothering, where I'm pretty sure most of the members do not own assault rifles.

post #27 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamapigeon View Post

I don't think there is just one answer as to why people are buying weapons like assault rifles. Sure, some of the people might have bad intentions, but I think the majority of Americans who buy guns are interested in protecting their freedom. Someone mentioned that people might need to form militia groups. Some Americans are afraid that the government is going to get out of hand and will need to be overthrown. Allowing citizens of a country to own weapons can help keep government in check.    

I personally like that people have the freedom to own weapons here. Do I want an assault rifle? No, but I want the right to own one.  
 

 

That just scares the hell out of me. Unintended consequences, unforeseen consequences.  One of these days some citizen 'militia' is going to save the hell out of me whether I want it or not.  I do not think the police or military is universally corrupt, in fact I rest easier at night because of our domestic police force, that's guided by strict rules of conduct.  It's my fellow US citizens that I don't know about, can't inherently trust.  I don't trust this militia, I did not vote for it, it does not speak for me. 

post #28 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by terraka View Post

And yet, cowboy country is LONG over and a zombie apocalypse exists only in the movies.... I am looking for answers.

LONG over? i dont think so. whoever said that. 

 

the answer you are looking for is not easy to find. its a historical answer - its a kind of conditioning that our history here has brought into the minds of the people and which continue to exist. 

 

i mean do we buy into everything we are told? do you believe racism has ended?

 

this is the country of the macho man who had to have his gun to protect himself from the "Indians" and hunt and put food on the table. 

 

to me why own such guns. why do we drink soda? why should soda even be manufactured. its advertising - the way of life that's keeping the gun alive. 

 

the man today is still the macho man. he still has to put food on the table. and he needs to feel macho. you know like on new years eve you go shoot some rounds at midnight. 

 

now automatic weapons have been banned a while. but semi automatic? was for a short while. 10 years and so was large ammunition. and during those years statistics show it didnt really have that great an effect on homicide. 

 

but i agree with pp. gun is just one aspect of it. just talking about guns is not going to solve anything. 

 

the point to me of importance is not just how to stop the murder of kids, but also how to stop kids like Adam L. developing. we dont know all the details so i cant really point a finger to his mom or family. but i can definitely point a finger to all of us who failed Adam. all teh bullying and meaness that happens in school. our whole philosophy of trying to fit the round peg into a square is at the bottom of this. 

 

however ... to be real... what's the big deal here. so 20 kids die and the whole nation is in uproar. we are fed by the media who pushes our buttons to get an emotional response. i mean we ARE adam Lanza's in many places around the world arent we? In Pakistan our drones have killed almost 200 children. isnt our government Adam Lanza. arent u and i adam lanzas to the Pakistani family? or is it because after all they are not americans who cares. we only care for our own. not others. so how could i point a finger at adam lanza and say hey you cant kill, when I do that all the time in other countries. the only difference. no mass hysteria develops around the drone attacks. until they decide they've had enough and cause another 9/11. and then suddenly they are the terrorists and we are the poor suffering nation. 

 

so arent we a little hypocritical asking for our children to be safe at the cost of other children? 

 

the answer is not that simple. esp. when the media with its reporting is deciding how you should think and react. 

 

so therefore i ask you (universal) - do you really not see the why? 

post #29 of 77
terraka,
 
I agree with everything you say and the spirit behind it.  Even though I have grown up here and I am steeped in this culture, I have no freaking idea where these nutty ideas came from.  I feel pretty darned far removed from the "cowboys and indians" thing, myself.  I have never felt the need to have a gun in my home for protection.  I don't shoot animals.  I can't identify with any of this.  And apparently I'm pretty ignorant about the gun culture here, too.  I would never have guessed that you could walk into Dick's Sporting Goods and buy a full on semi-automatic rifle.  Unbelievable!  Who thought that was a good idea???  
 
And unlike all of the other Americans I've heard (read) opine about this...  I don't have any problem at all saying that we should just ban all guns.  Period.  (I know that will not happen, but if it were up to me...)  The consequences of having guns are that people get killed, either slowly one by one on street corners or in their parents bedrooms where they've found the gun or, more infrequently, in these mass shootings.  That is just the price of allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have a gun.  I think it's a no brainer, the price is just not worth it.  I would absolutely have no problem giving up my right to own a gun (but then again, I don't want to shoot anyone, or even to have the possibility of shooting anyone, so that makes it easier for me I guess) in exchange for knowing that it was going to lead to a huge reduction in senseless deaths.  It horrifies me that other Americans don't see it that way, but it seems pretty clear that the vast majority of us are willing to risk their children and ours so they can have their guns.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

 

That just scares the hell out of me. Unintended consequences, unforeseen consequences.  One of these days some citizen 'militia' is going to save the hell out of me whether I want it or not.  I do not think the police or military is universally corrupt, in fact I rest easier at night because of our domestic police force, that's guided by strict rules of conduct.  It's my fellow US citizens that I don't know about, can't inherently trust.  I don't trust this militia, I did not vote for it, it does not speak for me. 

 

I have serious misgivings about the police and the State in general.  I used to be a criminal defense attorney because I thought the system was insanely corrupt.  But I still mostly agree with this.  As scary as I find the police to be, I would not trade them in for a bunch of armed militia types.  

post #30 of 77
Quote:
And unlike all of the other Americans I've heard (read) opine about this...  I don't have any problem at all saying that we should just ban all guns.  Period.  (I know that will not happen, but if it were up to me...)  The consequences of having guns are that people get killed, either slowly one by one on street corners or in their parents bedrooms where they've found the gun or, more infrequently, in these mass shootings.  That is just the price of allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have a gun.  I think it's a no brainer, the price is just not worth it.  I would absolutely have no problem giving up my right to own a gun (but then again, I don't want to shoot anyone, or even to have the possibility of shooting anyone, so that makes it easier for me I guess) in exchange for knowing that it was going to lead to a huge reduction in senseless deaths.  It horrifies me that other Americans don't see it that way, but it seems pretty clear that the vast majority of us are willing to risk their children and ours so they can have their guns.

 

This is how I feel.  Especially the bolded part.  From how some of my friends talk about gun control they probably think my take is naive.  Well, obviously I disagree, and in fact I wonder if theirs is the naive take, because it comes from a romantic fantasy about American individualism and the revolutionary war.  And black helicopters and federal conspiracies. 

post #31 of 77

Let me preface this by saying, I don't have *the* answer, but I do think I have some of them.  Whether or not they'll ever come to fruition,  who knows.  When I say "we," I mean our society, not an individual.  When I say, "you," I mean in general.  Etc.

 

Why?  We're a material culture & we value things more than we value people.

 

WHy? We're a do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do culture.  We value killing of people of other nations (children, women included) if it's "for a good cause."  We revere law enforcement and believe it's acceptable for them to kill but not us.

 

Why?  We value independence more than interdependence.

 

Why?  We no longer have a clue about anything that is normal for humans, only what is normal for our CULTure.

 

Why? We punish behavior instead of looking at the unmet needs that are the root of behavior we don't like.  If punishment worked, jail would be free of repeat offenders.

 

Why?  We look outside ourselves for fixes to our problems instead of *thinking* of how we can fix it ourselves.  Society is rampant w/ people who take every. single. thing. personally. and have no clue what personal responsibility means.

 

Why?  We're a bunch of adultists & all the -isms come from it.

 

Why?  We're impatient and want everything right NOW.

 

Why?  We encourage, support, practice negative parenting practices that result in sub-par relationships w/ our mothers, fathers, family and then everyone else.

 

Why?  We except violence, threats, punishment and abuse as a normal, everyday way of getting things accomplished.

 

Okay, that's all I have in my head right now.  Off to celebrate Solstice. 

 

Sus

post #32 of 77
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamapigeon View Post

     I personally like that people have the freedom to own weapons here. Do I want an assault rifle? No, but I want the right to own one.

 

 

    If you honestly want to know why people are buying assault rifles, why don't you contact some gun clubs and ask people? I don't think you're going to get the answer you're looking for on mothering, where I'm pretty sure most of the members do not own assault rifles.

 

This has turned out to be an interesting and meaningful discussion. Thank you so so so much all for this continuing effort to help me understand. Although I am citizen now, I still feel very much like a foreigner, you know, English is my second language and I do have a thick accent and I don't know so many cultural landmarks that are second nature to most americans.

As mamapigeion suggests above, I googled "gun club". Apparently there is some movie or a video game with that name, so it was not so easy to actually find the name of a real gun club. Surprisingly, there is a shooting range for rifles near Union Square in Manhattan- "West Side Rifle and Pistol Range". I was just at Union Square to see the holiday market two days ago with my daughter. Never would I have supposed that there is a shooting range so close by. To me Union Square is the symbol of diversity, fashion, street musicians, open air Yoga in the summer, children playing, and just the awesome rebellious cool culture of downtown NYC... It's a hub for peaceful fashionistas, gay and transgender kids showing off drag queens styles, old men playing chess on the square... I love Union Square, I love going there and despite how crowded it is, I take any chance I can to stroll around there.

But anyway, people on Yelp wrote reviews about it, so I read them. A lot of them say they just love guns, they don't know why, but they do. Men and women. One complains about the restrictive NYC gun laws. So I am going further with this because I am starting to consider a documentary project. I have done a few short docs before, am a visual artist by training and have worked for film projects, so I feel I could potentially do this if I organize it correctly. I have never really thought about this subject matter before and I know next to nothing about guns and gun laws, however, I feel this would be the right way to focus the energy and interest I have toward this subject in the wake of the Dec 14 Newtown Shooting.

Of course, it is extremely difficult to organize a doc research stage because of the many directions this can take, however, I feel it is about giving everyone a voice. The point of view must not be judgemental, like, oh you gun owners, you are the bad guys, no no. The POV must be able to disclose in a personal way what these people really feel/think. So it would take gun owners who want to participate and who want to relay their view truthfully...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post

LONG over? i dont think so. whoever said that. 

 

the answer you are looking for is not easy to find. its a historical answer - its a kind of conditioning that our history here has brought into the minds of the people and which continue to exist. 

 

i mean do we buy into everything we are told? do you believe racism has ended?

 

this is the country of the macho man who had to have his gun to protect himself from the "Indians" and hunt and put food on the table. 

 

to me why own such guns. why do we drink soda? why should soda even be manufactured. its advertising - the way of life that's keeping the gun alive. 

 

the man today is still the macho man. he still has to put food on the table. and he needs to feel macho. you know like on new years eve you go shoot some rounds at midnight. 

 

now automatic weapons have been banned a while. but semi automatic? was for a short while. 10 years and so was large ammunition. and during those years statistics show it didnt really have that great an effect on homicide. 

 

but i agree with pp. gun is just one aspect of it. just talking about guns is not going to solve anything. 

 

the point to me of importance is not just how to stop the murder of kids, but also how to stop kids like Adam L. developing. we dont know all the details so i cant really point a finger to his mom or family. but i can definitely point a finger to all of us who failed Adam. all teh bullying and meaness that happens in school. our whole philosophy of trying to fit the round peg into a square is at the bottom of this. 

 

however ... to be real... what's the big deal here. so 20 kids die and the whole nation is in uproar. we are fed by the media who pushes our buttons to get an emotional response. i mean we ARE adam Lanza's in many places around the world arent we? In Pakistan our drones have killed almost 200 children. isnt our government Adam Lanza. arent u and i adam lanzas to the Pakistani family? or is it because after all they are not americans who cares. we only care for our own. not others. so how could i point a finger at adam lanza and say hey you cant kill, when I do that all the time in other countries. the only difference. no mass hysteria develops around the drone attacks. until they decide they've had enough and cause another 9/11. and then suddenly they are the terrorists and we are the poor suffering nation. 

 

so arent we a little hypocritical asking for our children to be safe at the cost of other children? 

 

the answer is not that simple. esp. when the media with its reporting is deciding how you should think and react. 

 

so therefore i ask you (universal) - do you really not see the why? 

Meemee,

thank you for your passionate answer. I kind of know what you are talking about because children dying from shooting is a global problem, and yes, it does not occur only here at all. I really feel for what you are feeling because before I "understood" the USA, I was extremely critical of its foreign policies, of its approach toward many countries that is so demanding and domineering. Yes, it is beyond sad. Yes, children are dying right now because of bombing, gunning and shooting and all that war brings.

So in a way, yes, your view helps explain why and I do see why, the culture of warring has permeated us, therefore it is more than natural that this stuff is happening, that alienated young men who are acutely intelligent but lack social skills spend their life holed up with aggressive video games and armed to the teeth parents.

You bring up so many important points.... I can't address them all right now. Yes, human life in many countries isn't as valued and protected as here, mainly because of politics, so when something like this happens here, we get this response. I feel that the Media tries to feed us emotional cues, however, one cannot help but have a core-shaking emotional response to what just happened. We are not having it because of the media, but because we are mothers.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

 

I have serious misgivings about the police and the State in general.  I used to be a criminal defense attorney because I thought the system was insanely corrupt.  But I still mostly agree with this.  As scary as I find the police to be, I would not trade them in for a bunch of armed militia types.  

Also a super interesting point. Never thought that the people would want to form armed militias and have the right to. I'd think that sounds highly illegal, but if that is why citizens are arming themselves, then i guess it is not.

regarding the Police.... There is Police everywhere in NYC... as you can imagine. There are many controversial views about them here, one only needs to read the paper. The system probably is corrupt.

But, I would never never want random people in NYC owning guns. That would be soooo scary. There are just too many people here, this is truly an anthill. 

To be honest with you, what just happened last Friday has generated some anxiety for me which I did not have before.

Traveling on the bus with my daughter, a young man sat across from us. He was about 20 and seemed kind of detached. At first I tried to give a small nod and greet and I did not want to think bad thoughts, but he really was kind of removed with a flat face. And he even sat where the seats are supposed  to be for the elderly and did not move when an elderly woman was looking for a seat.

ANyway, I tried to not look his way and toward the end of the ride right before we were getting off the bus, he summoned my attention and said: "Excuse me, your pocket book is about to fall". I picked it up, thanked him (somewhat relieved), grabbed my kid and diaper bag and stroller and got out of the bus to plunge into a dense sea of strangers, a crowded but typical NYC scene, really thankful that at least in this city, rifle ownership is illegal (at least that is what I know as of now).

Only half an hour later, another young man sat across from us in the subway on the G line, and stared me down in a really cold way. His face was really kind of anxious and a little angry and I looked away quickly and did not look at him again. If I was on my own, this would really not impress me, but being with the little one makes a huge difference. It is just the reality of a city I guess, but one can't help but experience, process and think about what happened.

There is a ton of undercover police on the subway and I am thankful about that!

Thanks again to all of you for all your in-depth answers and please keep them coming and continue to share your view with me. This thread has been a special place to process and there is nothing like mothers sharing with each other.

post #33 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by terraka View Post

 We are not having it because of the media, but because we are mothers.

hmmm. i kinda disagree. it has been a week almost to the time now. as mothers we have all had our reactions and HAD to 'settle down' so that we can be mothers again and go on with life. we have done our mourning and some sort of healing and are holding all those little kids in our hearts and their families and the kids who saw. no one has forgotten. but we are all mourning in our own way. or celebrating (yes part of me IS celebrating that these kids lives will  not go to waste). we are in the middle of a huge change at the cost of most horrendous of sacrifices.

 

so why wont the media leave the families and this news alone. why do they keep bringing it up as to what's going on there. yes absolutely bring up discussions - issues - gun control and most importantly mental health treatments so that therapists dont have to let go of their patients because the government said their time is up, but because they decided their patients got the attention they needed. why does the media go back to milking the situation. and keep rubbing in salt in every parents wound and making it hurt all over again. 

 

the gun places are a minor place where you will find the answer - if any. a better person would be a historian. it is all linked to the puritans... this all goes back years and generations. members of the NRA, gun enthusiasts will one give you part of the picture. i wish you had my american history teacher. you would understand why and why we are so severe and harsh to other countries in the world. esp. those starting off. remember our government is not run by people - but by corporations who have been successful to be seen as people by law. 

 

also remember we ourselves glorify guns. maybe not by owning guns but by loving characters like rambo, etc. 

post #34 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by terraka View Post

Traveling on the bus with my daughter, a young man sat across from us. He was about 20 and seemed kind of detached. At first I tried to give a small nod and greet and I did not want to think bad thoughts, but he really was kind of removed with a flat face. And he even sat where the seats are supposed  to be for the elderly and did not move when an elderly woman was looking for a seat.

ANyway, I tried to not look his way and toward the end of the ride right before we were getting off the bus, he summoned my attention and said: "Excuse me, your pocket book is about to fall". I picked it up, thanked him (somewhat relieved), grabbed my kid and diaper bag and stroller and got out of the bus to plunge into a dense sea of strangers, a crowded but typical NYC scene, really thankful that at least in this city, rifle ownership is illegal (at least that is what I know as of now).

Only half an hour later, another young man sat across from us in the subway on the G line, and stared me down in a really cold way. His face was really kind of anxious and a little angry and I looked away quickly and did not look at him again. If I was on my own, this would really not impress me, but being with the little one makes a huge difference. It is just the reality of a city I guess, but one can't help but experience, process and think about what happened.

gently mama i say to you - be careful. dont make the media put thoughts in your head. those men need to be loved. yes even Adam Lanza. they need to see kindness in society around us. we may not like their action but they deserve our love too. and yes i mourn for the 20 kids as much as i mourn for Adam. 

 

you've got to get out of the suspicioius bent of mind (i am assuming from your writting that those boys scared you). 

 

you are looking around and creating stories. yes there are people who bring shivers down my spine but you have to see - is he really that cold or is that what you want to see. 

 

it is even MORE important that we love the bad ones now. that we smile at them. that we open our hearts and tell them i know there is goodness in you and i believe in you. 

 

otherwise we keep the chain of hate and violence going. 

 

it is hard to love the unloved. but we cant progress if we cant do this. 

post #35 of 77
Quote:

Originally Posted by terraka View Post

 

While everyone is trying to figure out how to talk about this, why is no one talking about the facts of gun ownership? . 

 

 

I really disagree with this. There is a TON of discussion right now about gun ownership, and there will be more. Its being talked about in DC and Hollywood, by the NRA and school boards. There is a great deal of talk, and I expect we will see real changes in the upcoming years. However, I think those changes will be specific and limited, such as clip size, the gun show loophole, etc.

 

I feel that some of the post in this thread show a lack of understanding about the founding fathers. They valued freedom over safety, and said so in a variety of ways. My personal favorite quote on the subject is from Ben Franklin:

 

"people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both"

 

What the second amendment says: A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

It's about personal defense. It's not about hunting, but about personal defense.

 

I'm not a fan of guns. I don't own one, and I won't allow one to kept in my home. When my children were little and starting to go over to other people's houses to play, I asked if there were guns in the home, and if so, how they were stored.  As my kids got older, we practiced what to say if another child showed them a gun.

 

None the less, I believe that ordinary citizen have a right to own a hand gun for self protection (most americans agree with this). I can see why some people feel safer that way. I live in the wild west. I'm very close to the border with mexico and the drug war spills over. A rancher not far from where I live was shot by a scout for a mexican drug cartel.

 

Sometimes, good people with guns do stop gunman -- such as last weekend in San Antonio:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559506/shots-fired-patrons-panic-at-san-antonio-theater/

 

I'm still not a fan of guns. I think we would all be better off if there were fewer of them around. None the less, I see both sides of this issue.

post #36 of 77

I'm not sure if many or any of us are trying to show our understanding of the founding fathers.  I don't really see this as being about them at all.  I guess that doesn't sound very American of me, but as far as I'm concerned, they don't have anything to say about whether or not I have to fear for my children's safety every time they leave the house.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that, as of the time of the writing of the constitution, there had never been a school shooting like this.  I bet that if Ben Franklin were here today that he'd agree that times had changed and we should be taking that into consideration.

post #37 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by terraka View Post

 

And yet, cowboy country is LONG over

 

Popping in from cowboy country here to dispute this! We live on a working cattle and sheep ranch in the middle of Wyoming with no neighbors anywhere in sight. We own many guns. Mainly hunting rifles. We take a steer for ourselves every couple of years, but the majority of our meat is deer, antelope, and elk that my husband takes himself. He carries a sidearm and bear spray when he is hunting in areas deep with bears. We also need firearms to protect our livestock from wild animals. Just this summer, my DH shot a wolf that was eating a horse 10 yards from our backdoor. Two summers ago we had a rabid skunk in our yard. Mountain lions and coyotes will take our sheep and calves. Five years ago, we had a horse break a hip and the nearest vet who could put him down was four hours away...

 

We do own an automatic weapon, but it almost never comes out of the safe. You can't hunt with it, it is basically just for target shooting.

 

We don't use guns everyday and they are all locked in a safe and unloaded.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to speak up that not all gun owners are nut jobs and there are people (good people) who still live in "cowboy country".

post #38 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post


 

otherwise we keep the chain of hate and violence going. 

 

it is hard to love the unloved. but we cant progress if we cant do this. 

 

If someone is a psychopath, then nothing can help them.  All the "love" and "belief" won't do anything.

post #39 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by terraka View Post
 How are all Americans affected? Show me a sane person, an American, who would not be shaken by the tragedy that just happened upon learning about it? This affects everyone. Everyone will worry a bit more about their safety and for a good reason. And that is just the beginning of bad news. We all worry but more worrying than one can take affects health and relationships. It affects children. It affects choices.

 

There is a strong argument to be made that I am not sane, so take this how you will. I feel only mildly shaken. Like I understand that it is sad but it didn't make me cry. People die through violence every single day. I don't really cry over it any more. I cry over me because I'm a self-absorbed bastard. This won't make me worry more. My chances of this happening are ridiculously small compared to the other things I do in life.

 

This won't effect me or my life. Not even slightly.

post #40 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

 

That just scares the hell out of me. Unintended consequences, unforeseen consequences.  One of these days some citizen 'militia' is going to save the hell out of me whether I want it or not.  I do not think the police or military is universally corrupt, in fact I rest easier at night because of our domestic police force, that's guided by strict rules of conduct.  It's my fellow US citizens that I don't know about, can't inherently trust.  I don't trust this militia, I did not vote for it, it does not speak for me. 

 

An awful lot of people living in the Colonies felt that way about those pesky Revolutionists too. :)

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