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Vaccination Debate

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

Has anyone else been thinking about and researching the childhood vaccination schedule?  My midwives lent me Dr. Sears' The Vaccine Book and if anything I think it's made the decisions harder.  I have been suspicious of pharmaceutical companies and the FDA for awhile but it's just difficult to know what is right.  My situation is a slightly different because my husband's mother has lupus (and is also a nurse who will never let me hear the end of it if I don't vaccinate) and so she can't be around any sicknesses because her immune system is compromised.  The other side effect of this is that our child has a chance of being genetically predisposed to having lupus.  Many environmental factors can trigger lupus in someone like this including, in some cases, vaccines.  So obviously I'm worried about that.  The book shows me the amounts of chemicals in each vaccine and how they are made and how very few children have any side effects.. but there's always that chance.  Some of the vaccines I'm still certain I will not allow such as the Hepatitis B vaccine.  Maybe when they are in their teens or something but there is no need to expose a newborn baby to that if the mother tests negative for Hep B in my opinion.  And I've had the chickenpox( and I've had shingles before too) and they weren't a big deal so I don't understand why I should fear my child catching it.  

 

I posted a question about this in a separate thread and someone suggested a new topic so here it is!  I would love to hear your thoughts on vaccination.  What have you done in the past if you have other kids?  Have you seen any bad reactions?  What are you planning to do with this baby?  What problems have you faced if you have chosen not to vaccinate?

post #2 of 25

My husband did a very delayed schedule with his daughter. I am thinking of doing at least a "spread out" schedule with our baby, just minimize the "load" and potential reactions. I really haven't read scientific research that convinces me the risks of vaccinations outweigh the potential benefits, but I do think it's a lot for a little one's system to handle- potentially. I do know it's a pretty hot topic other places on this board.

post #3 of 25

Oh, and I'll definitely be declining the Hep B. They give that because they don't know what kind of situations they are releasing babies into, only days after birth, but I know my living situation does not include risk of Hep B.

post #4 of 25
I have been reading and re-reading dr. Sears book lol we have definitely decided to selectively vaccinate. However, we are still not sure completely of which ones yet. Altho I agree with you abt the hep b vac. That is so dumb to me for an infant. And I understand the family pressure! My Father in law is the VP of quality control for one of the TOP pharmaceutical companies in the country! He also has a PHD in biotech. So yeah. He thinks we would be INSANE not to vacs our kids lol he even tried to bring the H1N1 vaccine over to our house when the outbreak was happening... To SAVE us! Lol we refused the shot and he was livid! But we just let him have his temper tantrum and said thanks, but no thanks!

I have a family history of bad reactions to vaccines... My mother had a stroke just hrs after receiving a flu shot when I was abt 15. Her doctors were so sure it was caused by the vaccine they out in her chart she was never to receive another again! My sister had a seizure after a flu shot when she was 16. And my little brother after his 9month shots and MMR went into a 3days cycle of constant grand maul seizures... After which he completely stopped developing... He stopped babbling, talking, trying to walking, crawling, sitting up, holding his own bottle...etc. he just laid their in a daze for almost a yr. I didn't even smile. When he was 18 month old he was diagnosed on the autism spectrum, and his pediatrician believed SO strongly that all this happened because of the vaccines that he forbid him from ever receiving any again. He's 19 now and has never had another one. He is a great kid, but will never live alone... His disability is too severe.

All of that makes me concerned that I have some kind of gene or something in my family that predisposes us to bad reactions to vaccines...

So ofcourse I'm worrying even more abt what to give the baby...
post #5 of 25

Yikes! That is so scary BeanBean!! I'm so sorry your family has had to deal with that, regardless of the cause!

 

This is such a hard topic to think through rationally. I have Dr Sears book too (love him!) and I agree that it didn't help me make the decision lol. For me, it's all fear based and I know that isn't rational. But, for right now, the fear of a risk or complication is much stronger then the fear of getting any of the diseases.
 

post #6 of 25

One thing I would consider with your mother's situation is that things COULD be even riskier with vaccines, when you think about how first, they aren't 100% effective, and that IMO- just from my conclusions based on my own research- a LOT of children are misdiagnosed simply because they are vaccinated.  (meaning a doctor may blow off a "VPD"- hate that term, by the way- as something minor just by knowing the child has been vaccinated for that particular disease, when it's actually the real deal)  So at least in my opinion, if they weren't vaccinated, it would be easier to pinpoint and confirm certain things for your mother's sake.

 

That said though, we've chosen not to vaccinate (if that wasn't already obvious ;) ).  For us it's an ongoing thing, though- we feel it would be irresponsible of us to just make a decision and never re-evaluate it again.  We stay as up to date as possible on research- on both sides- and pray about it regularly, and if for whatever reason we felt led to vaccinate for anything, we'd definitely consider it. 

 

Initially we were going to vaccinate- with both of us in the medical field (and DH having grown up surrounded by it), we were actually VERY adamantly pro-vaccine. (which I feel gives me a pretty objective perspective anymore and I can relate so much to the people who oppose our decision, because I've been there too!)  But something, I can't recall what (probably my MIL who is an RN turned pretty much naturopath LOL), made me hesitate with DD1, so we decided to do a delayed schedule.  We waited until 4 months while we kept researching, then we put it off until 6, then until a year, and then we decided we were FAR more comfortable just not vaccinating.  And that's they way it's stayed...even when I used to have some doubts, I knew that I was still more comfortable not getting them than getting them.  If that were reversed, then the outcome may have been different from the start. 
 

The longer we go, though, the more my eyes are opened to how powerful those little bodies really are...that God really did equip them with what they need.  That doesn't mean we don't resort to medical assistance for some things, but just that I've learned to trust the natural process more rather than fear the possible outcomes.  Also, I've seen my SIL's baby have seizures after vaccines and come to find out, SIL did too (and she had that horrible high pitched scream after her vax's, too)...so that reaffirms our decision as well, considering it's possible that could run in the family.  But other things like the CDC Pink Book that states you're more likely to know someone who's had a reaction to a vaccine than someone who's had a VPD have also helped. 

 

Thankfully we have a lot of support on DH''s side.  His mother is AMAZING.  And his FIL, while he's definitely on the allopathic side as a very experienced 45+ year MD, and he has seen a LOT of cases that contribute to him feeling like vaccine are still the best way to go, he is actually really helpful to us and sees how healthy our children really are in comparison to others (it's definitely been obvious, as my children DO get sick, there's no getting around that, but the severity is so much less, and they duration is always so much shorter!), and just from watching him over the last few years it would appear that he's starting to doubt them himself. ;)  But he's always so encouraging when it comes to certain things...like pertussis, for example, he reminds us that it's endemic, he sees cases on a regular basis all throughout the year, that "outbreaks" aren't what we make them out to be, and even he will say that many of his dx'd patients are up to date on their vaccines.  So it's just helpful to have his support in that regard.  We also have an amazing doctor that I take the kids to, albiet only maybe once a year (just for the paper trail, as with FIL living across the road, even when we DO need something it's not really necessary for us to go see the other doc!). But she's an naturopathic MD and she has told us that if we ever need it, she will FIND a medical reason for a medical exemption for my children.  She's very much on our side.  She won't even administer vax's herself, but sends those pt's wanting them down to the public health clinic.

 

I will say though that my initial research into vaccines is what opened my eyes to almost all of the things I'm into anymore.  I am a HUGE advocate of promoting gut health thanks to what I learned those years ago from vaccines.

post #7 of 25

Oh  my gosh, I am sorry, that looks like a novel!  Sometimes I manage to type as quickly as I think and it gets me into trouble. LOL

 

Basically, in a nutshell, I think each family has to really take the time to do the research and evaluate their situation.  While not vaccinating at all is best for MY family, it may be different for another family.  Sure, I don't agree with the way our country goes about vaccines, but my biggest beef is them blanketing all children with the same requirements.  It needs to be something that parents decide for their own children based on those individual little bodies and their needs.  And no parent should have to be afraid of making that decision.

post #8 of 25

Some back story - my ex-husband was born in El Salvador and born in a field of cattle. When I heard about how/where he was born I was shocked he survived! lol.gif Then I heard he has never been vaccinated nor had he been to the dentist! I thought of him as a miracle and rushed him to the doctor to get vaccinated and to the dentist to get checked and teeth cleaned. He was fine with being vaccinated but wasn't keen on the dent ital visit. He didn't have a cavity and we figure that is due to his diet growing up and he was very good about brushing his teeth growing up because it is rare to take care of your teeth where he is from.

 

Anyway, most babies are born at home or outside unassisted or with family by their side. That got me looking into "how is this possible" (I was so naive) and was swept up in the simplicity and beauty of it.  Thankfully that turned me to breastfeeding advocate and then I found cloth diapers then AP. thumb.gif

 

I never heard of not vaccinating when my first was born so he was vaccinated on schedule and we battled some serious allergies starting at 4 months. I then heard about some not vaccinating it took me a long time to wrap my head around all the information and research why or why not to vaccinate.

 

As far as this babe goes, he won't be vaccinated. My boys are more healthy than any other child in DHs family and we believe vaccinating is part of that. However, this last summer my boys went to El Salvador and Guatemala to visit family and I did get them vaccines related to dangers in those areas.

 

This has taken me an hour to type out since I'm at work so I apologize if it is smooth reading. I've got to get back to work.

post #9 of 25

This is my 3rd baby and neither of my 1st two were vaccinated and neither will this baby be. I did a lot of research on it all before deciding that with my kids. It is a very personal parental decision, I believe, and either way you go you need to be strong in your convictions. Basically, if you decide to not vaccinate you will get flack for it. So sticking to your guns and knowing your research and information is the best way to go. You have to informative and strong in your decision not to vaccinate. When my son broke his leg, a nurse in the hospital started lecturing me on the fact he wasn't vaccinated. Ummmm...he is not in the hospital for a childhood communicable disease caused by not vaccinating - he broke his leg!

 

While I know "some" people and doctors say that only a few kids will have reactions, I believe that is only the major reactions like seizures, brain bleeds, etc. But ezcema, allergies, ADHD can all be reactions of vaccines that may not show up until much later and then they don't get associated with vaccines. I am seeing so many parents post on FB about how sick their kids are - their kids that are vaccinated. But my two boys are rarely sick, and when they do get sick its short lived. For me, I believe vaccines cause our immune system to be worse. Natural immunity is the best way for me and my family. But I also do a vegetarian diet, lots of healthy non-processed foods, vitamins & supplements to support a natural immune system. If you're not going to vaccinate at all, you will need to naturally pump up your kids' immune system especially if in school, around other sick kids, or during the winter months. However, I believe parents should be trying to do this regardless of vaccines. You can't rely on vaccines alone, we've seen that vaccinated kids can still get sick, and the vaccines can sometimes cause the illness.

 

I don't believe anyone in my or DH's family had a bad reaction to vaccines; that's not why I chose to not vaccinate. But I have read so so many stories of kids that do have reactions and I could never live with myself if I "ruin" my child by vaccinating them. I belive in treating a sick child, not ruining a healthy one. But that said, it is a very personal decision. Some kids will have no reactions, ever. Some will have mild ones like fever or swelling on the injection site. Some could have major issues. I just wish doctors were more informed on what to do when a child has a reaction and for them to advocate that parent to stop vaccines if there is a major reaction.

post #10 of 25

I am not vaccinated, but I was raised in a part of a country where I don't think that was abnormal and it was easier than some other places to find support from medical professionals. While I have not started reading The Vaccine Book I imagine that we will do a delayed schedule of sorts. We meet with our first potential pediatrician recently and found the question about their vaccination philosophies to be meet with ..... a less than supportive attitude. 

 

I wonder how you who have chose not to vaccinate or to delay deal with the medical professionals in your child's life?

post #11 of 25

My daughter isn't vaccinated at all. My husband and I are in the process of discussing vaccines for our son. I am extremely opposed, my husband just isn't sure yet. I'm certain we will delay all vaccines until we come to an agreement (which means we won't vaccinate). My husband is very science-minded and wants to read the peer-reviewed studies. He also understands that I've done TONS of research and haven't come to this conclusion willy-nilly, and respects that, too.

My daughter has been so healthy. She gets over colds, no big deal. When she gets a rare fever, we let it work and do it's job and keep her rested and hydrated and the fever never lasts more than 24 hours. I gave her antibiotics once, when she was about 6 months old, for an ear infection. My instincts told me it was necessary, and she healed quickly from it. Another ear infection was treated with breastmilk/nutrition, and she recovered from that one perfectly, as well. I remember constantly having strep throat and being on antibiotics as a child, and I'm certain it's because vaccines affected my immune system in a negative way. It's amazing the difference I see between her health and kids who are vaccinated, and I know I've made the right decision.

post #12 of 25

I had typed out a huge response but my computer just cut me off totally.  I just wanted to say really quickly that things aren't always black and white.  I'm sayign this as someone whose kids are unvaccinated short of my 13yo who had her first two shots.

 

We were hit by pertussis in our household and it is awful.  I regret not getting the shots knowing what I do now...that it is circulating (with minor to heavy cold/cough symptoms) in children and adults alike who are partially or totally vaccinated.  It is most contagious in the cold stage (sneezing, sniffling, dry cough) before any discernable whoop and there is typically no fever.  So people around you are spreading it.  As unvaccinated we were at a disadvantage and significant risk of catching this disease.  My children are suffering terribly where my daughter and I who had it first had relatively minor symptoms even though our last shots were 13-15 years ago.  Compare this with weeks of being up sometimes every half hour to an hour, gasping, whooping, coughing, puking that 3 of mine have now.  With antibiotics they won't be contagious but the coughing may continue for months.

 

How can we protect our babies if people are walking around circulating this without even knowing?  I for one am realising that my children would have been better served with the shot.

 

It's a tough choice because we all fear harm to our children.  Because we do not see these diseases any more compared to generations before us who lost children and/or saw other suffer, it is uncertain as to which is more risk of harm.  Whereas to them it was an easy choice.  Unfortunately for me, it is now any easy choice and they will receive some shots now.  We still don't make the decisions lightly or blindly, but some protection is worth it.  If we had gotten sick a few months later I could have lost my baby to this.  Not worth it.  FWIW even doing everything 'right' doesn't stop you from getting sick sometimes (we eat organic, kids have been breastfed, homeschool, practice overly careful hygiene, etc etc)...especially for very contagious disease.  Just like my Mom, a healthy 52 year old, died from colon cancer for no good reason.  And some of us have difficult pregnancies or births that require intervention - at no fault of our own.  I am not one of those people who think bad things can't happen to me (part of the reason why we avoided the shots - I don't believe we are immune to serious reactions either).  It just so happens we were on the other side of that and caught the disease.  Only you know what the right decision for your family is, and you have every right to make that choice.  But we can't forget the heartbreak of actually getting sick with these things  because it's happening too.  Even to people who 'do it right' and are well versed in health, natural remedies/homeopathy, vitamins, hygiene.

post #13 of 25

We do selective vaccination. I'm lucky that our doctor totally goes along with us. We had about 3 yrs that we were on a different insurance and couldn't use her, and the new pediatrician gave me a lot of grief. In fact I ended up switching back to the previous doctor when the office hung up posters of children who had died because they weren't vaccinated!  It freaked out me out and I was scared to bring my older kids there, because it was very traumatizing.

 

We do the main vaccinations like dpt, polio, hib, and mmr. We start at about 4 months and usually do 2 at a time. I don't usually bring my kids in special, but do it when we have check-ups. Luckily my kids had chickenpox 2 years ago, so we avoided that issue. I also don't do hep b.

post #14 of 25

Cindy, I'm so sorry that your family is dealing with whooping cough. That's the big one for me (as a currently non-vaxing family) because WA has one of the highest incident rates, and my county is among the highest in the state. Add to that the fact that our business is retail so I'm around potentially contagious people all the time. Like I said, damned if you do, damned if you don't. greensad.gif I hope everyone in your house is feeling better soon and that the cough subsides quickly.

post #15 of 25

My kids are not vaccinated, but we tend to flip and flop on whether we do want to eventually do selective vaccines.  As a a health care professional it's such a loaded question for me from both an individual and a public health perspective.  Unfortunately the vaccine I feel most "on the fence" about is DTaP, primarily because pertussis is such a public health issue for the very young and very old especially and because I will be working in a hospital during rotations as well as (most likely) during my early years as a midwife.  But it is also, IMO, the scariest vaccine to get on an individual level. 

 

The only other vaccine we really consider seriously is polio, only because eventually I hope to train midwives in Pakistan and it is one of the last nations in the world where polio is active (in the NW territories, where it is unlikely I will be practicing -- but still).

 

So 5 years into parenting and I still don't have any straight answers.  We always thought it'd be around now we'd do DTaP (i.e. when the kids are around 5) and I've been putting off her WCV because I'm still so undecided!!

post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 

It's a tough topic.  My husband thinks our baby should get the pertussis vaccine (although he doesn't agree with any of the others he's read about so far) but although I know it is a common and scary disease for little ones I'm a bit wary of the vaccine itself.  I mean they are supposed to have 5 doses by the time they are 4-6 years old, three of which are given by 6 months.  That's a lot of vaccine and it doesn't even last very long.  And each time there is that chance he could have a reaction, right?  Or is it the case that if he doesn't react the first time he won't react at all to it?  Plus, from what I've read there is still a chance that a fully vaccinated child could still get the disease.  I just don't know.  My midwives gave me the names of some pediatricians that they have heard work with parents who want to delay or skip vaccinations but they are all at least an hour or so away from where we live.  I guess it would be worth it but man that would be stressful everytime he gets sick to have to drive all that way with a crying baby in the back seat.  And I would never forgive myself if he were to get deathly ill or die from a preventable disease... at the same time I would never forgive myself if he had a severe reaction to a vaccination although I could never prove that it was from the shot I'm sure.

 

All I know is I was a fully vaccinated child and I spent the first 10 years of my life almost continually sick.  I had chronic sinus and ear infections as well as every other childhood sickness you could name.  And I ate healthy balanced meals and took vitamins every day.  And I hear about children who were never vaccinated that were almost always healthy.  I wish it were more black and white so this decision wouldn't be so difficult.  It does help to hear your stories though.  It sounds like you are all pretty happy with your choice to not vaccinate (or selectively vaccinate) although I am sorry to hear about your situation, Cindy.  

 

So for those of you who selectively vaccinate, which ones do you think are worth the risk?  And why, if you don't mind explaining.

post #17 of 25

We started our childbirth classes last night! Something new came up - not unexpected I guess - DH wants to give the LO all of the tests that they do at hopsitals after the child is born. I am inclined to decline some of those. For example; if I am not HEP B positive why give that test to the newborn? Why not delay it. Any thoughts Mamas? I think DH is inclined to do that becuase he is anxious the child could be sick and he would rather be safe than sorry?

 

We are reading Natural Hospital Birth: The Best of Both Worlds as a part of our homework for the Birth Works class so I realize I will learn more over the next few weeks but I wondered what your thoughts were.

post #18 of 25

My girls are 6 and almost 4 and they have had Polio and DTaP. My 6 year old just got her first MMR at her well check. We go very slow and delay everything. Just one shot at a time too. I tried to get them to catch chicken pox once and it didn't work. They are very healthy little girls. 

post #19 of 25

We have been interviewing pediatricians lately and found one we like. They were very clear that their office follows the APA guidelines but respect the parents decision to delay and wont give us a hard time. (But they were also very clear that they do not want to work with patients that want to decline any vaccinations). I appreciate the honesty. And now I have to read the Vaccination Book. I am incline to think that rather than declining vaccinations (which is my preference) we will delay (it is DH's preference) and it seems easier. Sigh.

post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin08 View Post

We have been interviewing pediatricians lately and found one we like. They were very clear that their office follows the APA guidelines but respect the parents decision to delay and wont give us a hard time. (But they were also very clear that they do not want to work with patients that want to decline any vaccinations). I appreciate the honesty. And now I have to read the Vaccination Book. I am incline to think that rather than declining vaccinations (which is my preference) we will delay (it is DH's preference) and it seems easier. Sigh.


I haven't read Dr. Sears Vaccine book (which I'm assuming is the one you're talking about?) but I researched every vaccine individually and then came to my decision. Perhaps you'll find it makes sense to do the same for your family. Each vaccine is different, therefore you may decide against some, or you may decide to delay certain ones longer. Just my 2 cents!

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