When your child destroys things at another child's house.... - Page 2

[Peony]

Ouch. Obviously they haven't experienced childhood yet and all the crazy things kids do despite the best intentions of parents. Two things come to mind, either clear the air and sit down with them and explain that you intend to supervise your DD at their place so can they stop with the guilt tripping on a toddler OR and possibly still, just have all get togethers at your place or neutral ground until this blows over some more. 

[nilatti]

I'm a bit reluctant to write this, because you say that preserving the relationship is important to you, but your update reminds me, quite powerfully, of something that happened to me as a child.

When I was 2 or 3, I went with my mother to visit C, a (then-childless) friend of hers. C had a basket of little toys and objects for me to play with. One of them was a seashell. When we got home, my mom discovered that I had taken the shell home with me. I honestly don't remember whether I meant to, or just put it in my pocket and forgot about it. I don't remember if I knew it was wrong. Well, my mom made me call C and apologize, and made me hand it back to her the next time we saw her. If that was all, I wouldn't even remember it. But it just would.not.die. C wrote a letter to me, and it was unbelievably patronizing. I can still picture the stationery. 

The next time we went to her house, she "jokingly" checked my pockets as we left. 

When I was 5, my mom arranged for me to take violin lessons from C (and told me I was being silly when I said I didn't like C--everyone liked her, she was so beautiful and sweet). She used stickers as rewards and felt that she had to remind me, every time, to just take one.

When I was 7, I attended C's wedding. My mother put me in a white dress with blue flowers. C commented on it, remarking that she shouldn't have been surprised that I would wear white to a wedding: "Normally, people don't do that because they wouldn't want to steal the bride's spotlight, but, well, you..."

When I was 10 or 11, we were at a music festival and C overheard me asking my dad to lend me some money to buy a CD. C overheard me and said, to no one in particular, "[My name] always wants what she can't have." My dad had no idea what she was talking about, but I knew exactly.

This kind of crap continued for years. It hurt my feelings that my mom kept putting me in situations where I had to be around C. Now, I understand more. C really was/is a lovely person to most people. I think maybe she just didn't get that kids have feelings, and that they need the freedom to grow away from their own mistakes. C's husband was one of the first people to hold me after I was born. My mom, I'm sure, does not remember the shell incident (although I am sure C does). We lived in a very small community (kind of a commune, actually), and my mom probably couldn't have avoided her if she wanted to. 

I wish my mom had taken my feelings seriously enough to tell C to cool it, and to really listen to me when I said I didn't want to take violin lessons with her! And maybe to try to explain why not ever seeing her was not an option. Instead, it's left a bad taste in my mouth every time I've seen her for practically my whole life. 

I also must admit to some schaudenfraude this last time I saw her and asked about her sons. The younger one is driving up and down the west coast selling jewelry out of his van (which I think sounds cool, but she finds disappointing). The older one was recently arrested for...wait for it...repeatedly pumping gas and driving off without paying.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by kristah1000 
 I want to keep the relationship, but don't want to go visit somewhere where we don't feel welcome and feel stressed all the time and can't visit.

Hugs, mama. You CAN keep the relationship. You are not going to have toddlers together forever. In fact, this time flies!  Just create a little practical distance - be busy for a while. Connect again when you're in a different phase. Maybe by then they will have had their humble pie. 

But, I want to commiserate with you about their behavior - yuck!  Very ungracious. I also agree with the PP - if as you continue the friendship, this family is not able to move past this you have got to let your mama bear come out a little. Gossiping to a party full of people and then embarrassing your DC when she arrives is not OK - in fact (IMO), it's WAY less OK than a toddler drawing on stuff.  

In case you're questioning the relationship, I will say that these do not sound like people I would want in my life.  But, I also get "old friends" and wanting to keep them through thick and thin. Hugs again!

[crunchy_mommy]

Wow. I get that they might be a little nervous to see their home destroyed again in any way, but their behavior sounds over-the-top and inappropriate. I agree that some distancing for a while might be in order. Focus more on some other friends or different activities for awhile, and at least meet on neutral ground when you do get together, and hopefully this will all blow over with a little time & space. There might be some initial awkwardness when you resume visiting them but if they are indeed friendship-worthy people they will move on from this and in a few months your friendship should be mostly normal again, although from my own experience I suspect you may always feel a little on guard or unwelcome or judged. I think there is a certain safety in hanging around other families with toddlers -- an assurance that we are all in the same boat, & we all at least try to understand and forgive all the little toddler blunders, & we always know that next time it might be our own kid causing destruction or hurting others or whatever. It sounds like that sense of safety & camaraderie has been really compromised in your relationship with your friends and it may never fully recover, though hopefully it will greatly improve at least!

[sassyfirechick]

They took away the crayons?!?  Ok, that would have been it for me.  I'm a super nice person, but I can only put up with so much and when it comes to other people attempting to parent my child, I totally draw the line there!  I'm a big fan of karma, and I would be hoping and praying to some karma gods that during your absense from these friends, their DD did something terribly destructive so they could experience it first hand.  I wouldn't spy on my kid with a camera nor would I appreciate walking into a room where everyone had been informed of a mistake my child made.  Kids are kids - you can't learn unless you make mistakes.  Oh and expecting you to replace something they already have a replacement for?  Yah, money isn't in excess in this house and even if it was, that is absurd to expect someone to buy a duplicate.  I keep things nice in my house, but if a friend's kid (or animal, we get plenty of those visiting) broke or destroyed something I would like to think they would do something, but its not expected, not a condition of our friendship, nor would I continue to bring it up.

PS my FIL just broke a wine glass on my counter last week.  It's was a nice custom painted one that was a gift.  Was I upset?  A little.  Although I worried more about there being glass on the floor, and I found the silver lining in the situation - this particular glass was big and took up extra space in the cabinet which now without it everything fits much better ;-)

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by sassyfirechick 

PS my FIL just broke a wine glass on my counter last week.  It's was a nice custom painted one that was a gift.  Was I upset?  A little.  Although I worried more about there being glass on the floor, and I found the silver lining in the situation - this particular glass was big and took up extra space in the cabinet which now without it everything fits much better ;-)

And can you even imagine asking your FIL to replace/pay for the wine glass???

(Sorry about your glass though!)

[newmamalizzy]

I'm finding this situation all the more absurd because I don't keep ANY of my DD's art supplies - crayons, stickers, most definitely not markers or paints - out for her to use at will.  I'm super squeamish about that particular type of mess, and I cannot imagine trusting a toddler's impulse control to prevent it, whether they "know better" or not.  What an odd, awkward situation to be in!

[lmk1]

Originally Posted by kristah1000 

Ok so we spent NYE with our friends and I have a few updates to what is becoming much more of a saga than I would like it to be
First, the good: they don't want the fraggle replaced. They actually don't even want it anymore, as it takes up too much room and their DD doesn't play with it. So, that's a huge relief since it was the most expensive.
Now, the not so good:
As we were coming in the door last night their DD greeted us at the top of their stairs with "HI!! You're not allowed to write on the walls DD!" In front of a huge group of our friends, and they all burst out laughing. My DD was embarrassed, and needed a snuggle for a few minutes
When my friend and I had a few minutes alone, I asked her about the price of the second stuffed animal that I said we would replace. She told me she actually has 2 of them because another family member also bought one, so she just got that one out. I asked if she still wanted me to replace it and she said yes. Not that it's a big deal, but you already have a new one, why would you want a 2nd one? I don't get it but whatever.
While the girls were playing I was watching my DD like a hawk. They ran into their DDs bedroom, and immediately my friends gave me the video monitor and said "here, watch them in this." I took it to mean here, don't leave your daughter unsupervised. I didn't intend to, and certainly don't have issue with watching my child, however it's the attitude that she's not welcome to play there anymore, that she made one mistake and now can never be trusted. Fine.
Then, their DD got out crayons and her colouring books for the girls to share. I was sitting beside my DD and our friend (the husband) jumped right up and said "that marks on things, so I am going to take it away" and took the crayons from my DD. she got upset, we got ready and left. (We were planning to leave anyway, so it wasn't obvious that this was why we were leaving.)
So now it's no longer about replacing the things that have been damaged, it's the attitude that after one mistake instead of making it a learning opportunity for my DD she has lost all trust from them and we no longer feel welcome there. This sucks, and seriously doesn't have to be that big of a deal. I am just sad for my DD I guess and don't know where to go from here. I want to keep the relationship, but don't want to go visit somewhere where we don't feel welcome and feel stressed all the time and can't visit.

Seriously, these people sound stupid.  No one is perfect, and I'm sure they would not appreciate if you took every opportunity to bring up some past mistake their kid had made.  I have a friend we have a similar issue with ... simply because their kid is younger than mine and so they haven't experienced this age yet.  I finally started seeing them less frequently, because honestly it was stressing me out.  Ds1 is a pretty sensitive kid, and I don't need another grownup raising their voice or making fun of him...especially if I'm there...it would make my ds feel like I'm condoning it.  If you want to hang out with them, do it for a while on neutral territory, like a playground or restaurant.  And if they make a comment again about this, you can always say something either serious or snide (depending on what you feel comfortable with):  "I've paid for my dd's mistake, please stop bringing it up as you are hurting her feelings, and I'm NOT OK with that" ... OR ... "I guess old dogs can learn new tricks ... like not leaving markers with unsupervised kids".  

There are toys that are sold that area meant to be drawn on.  I remember my niece got a stuffed dog that actually came with markers and you were supposed to color it.  It's these people's inexperience and overblown pride in their first offspring...really.  I've yet to meet a perfect child no matter how proud the parents.  

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by kristah1000 


As we were coming in the door last night their DD greeted us at the top of their stairs with "HI!! You're not allowed to write on the walls DD!" In front of a huge group of our friends, and they all burst out laughing. My DD was embarrassed, and needed a snuggle for a few minutes

........

Then, their DD got out crayons and her colouring books for the girls to share. I was sitting beside my DD and our friend (the husband) jumped right up and said "that marks on things, so I am going to take it away" and took the crayons from my DD. she got upset, we got ready and left. (We were planning to leave anyway, so it wasn't obvious that this was why we were leaving.)
So now it's no longer about replacing the things that have been damaged, it's the attitude that after one mistake instead of making it a learning opportunity for my DD she has lost all trust from them and we no longer feel welcome there. This sucks, and seriously doesn't have to be that big of a deal. I am just sad for my DD I guess and don't know where to go from here. I want to keep the relationship, but don't want to go visit somewhere where we don't feel welcome and feel stressed all the time and can't visit.

Yuck, they are taking things too far. After that greeting at the door, I might have said something like "We all make mistakes, but what's important is whether we learn from them. Dd learned that markers and crayons are only meant for paper. It was a hard lesson. Almost as hard as learning how to forgive and move on". Maybe someone can figure out a less passive-aggressive way to say that, but I do think it needs to be said and I think your DD needs to hear you say it in her defence. If they continue to make such it an issue with pointed remarks and awkward behaviour, then it's time for an honest conversation with them about how terrible your DD feels and how uncomfortable you are about the situation. 

If you are able to take on hosting, I would limit visiting with that family to your home or to neutral places like playgrounds, parks and skating rinks for awhile. Chances are that if you are hosting their 2 y.o. fairly often, sooner or later she will damage something of yours and the shoe will be on the other foot. 

[rightkindofme]

Uhm, I'm going to come right out and say that your friends sound like big jerks. I wouldn't want to be friends with them any more. They are being mean to a three year old. How freakin petty can you be? Given that you can't know who painted on the stuff in the room I think they are being ridiculously unreasonable. I think having you pay for *any of it* is over the line.

If that happened in my house I would cry and refuse any offers of payment. It's just stuff. Stuff isn't important. Relationships are important and it is really important that a three year old not be made to feel bad for making a mistake. :(

And to have a whole bunch of people laugh at her? I would have turned and walked out. Not cool.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by rightkindofme 

Uhm, I'm going to come right out and say that your friends sound like big jerks. I wouldn't want to be friends with them any more. They are being mean to a three year old. How freakin petty can you be? Given that you can't know who painted on the stuff in the room I think they are being ridiculously unreasonable. I think having you pay for *any of it* is over the line.

If that happened in my house I would cry and refuse any offers of payment. It's just stuff. Stuff isn't important. Relationships are important and it is really important that a three year old not be made to feel bad for making a mistake. :(

And to have a whole bunch of people laugh at her? I would have turned and walked out. Not cool.

I actually agree, I guess my response was influenced by the OP's wish to preserve the relationship. I don't think it's ridiculous to share payment for some of the damages but I agree that the other family is being unreasonable and they are placing more emphasis on material goods than on the friendship. The ongoing shaming of a 3 y.o for doing what 3 y.o's do is out of line and I think it's up to her parents to speak up for her. 

[Lazurii]

I actually don't think it's a big deal for them to have art supplies within their daughter's reach because she doesn't misuse them.  Our kids have free range of markers and crayons.

HOWEVER, they're being really big jerks about this.  My friend's kids would come over and scribble my walls and tear up books.  The mother always took care of the situation and offered to replace things.  All I ever asked of her was to help me scrub the walls because 1) she doesn't have the money to replace my things and 2) my friendship is more important.  It may have been different depending on what her kids destroyed, ie something of great worth or sentimental value, but they didn't.  And your daughter "destroyed" things that 1) weren't wanted anymore, 2) had replacements already and 3) cleaned easily.  They are really blowing this out of proportion, especially since she did it ONCE.

[serenbat]

Quote:

As we were coming in the door last night their DD greeted us at the top of their stairs with "HI!! You're not allowed to write on the walls DD!" In front of a huge group of our friends, and they all burst out laughing. My DD was embarrassed, and needed a snuggle for a few minutes 

 

You really can not fault the other child here, she is a child and the fact is I'm sure the others knew anyway. It's not nice but how were the other parents to keep that child's mouth shut? Again, if this is a child you don't want your around- stop seeing them.

Quote:

When my friend and I had a few minutes alone, I asked her about the price of the second stuffed animal that I said we would replace. She told me she actually has 2 of them because another family member also bought one, so she just got that one out. I asked if she still wanted me to replace it and she said yes. Not that it's a big deal, but you already have a new one, why would you want a 2nd one? I don't get it but whatever.

Regardless how you may feel, they were not your items. You may have one view on them and they clearly have another. Personally I had a spoon damaged by a guest who thought nothing of since I had others- well the one spoon made a difference in how many place setting I had and yes it did matter to me and it cost me! I solved my issue- the next time I served tea and didn't give them a spoon- they got the message very clearly- everyone else had one- I only had so many to go around, so yea, it did matter and the cost was high to replace the whole place setting since I could not just get one- they ended up paying. Too bad they don't use real silver, I do. What may seem like nothing to you may mean something totally different to another person- it is not for you to judge the reason. 

I feel, if it's a child or a pet that causes any damage, it is the owner/parent who has to step up-IMO. I would not think to not pay- if an older child learning to drive causes damage to say a neighbor's property or car I would not say- "well they are just learning.... tuff"- NO you step up, it's your child and you are showing your child you are taking responsibility. In this case you will never know who did what exactly but given that the other child has the items and never did it, I feel you take responsibility like it or not.  If you don't want to maintain the relationship that is one thing (real easy don't replace a thing and never deal with them).... if you do you take full responsibility and stop the blame game, either move on or have it eat at you. 

 We allow free range of supplies so I don't see that as something out of normal and I have never had a wall or an object destroyed. If the parents use a monitor - it is their house, you can choose to go there or not. The issue really seems to be IF you continue with the relationship or not- what it means to you. I don't think either side will just forget it. If these are people you want in your life you have to take how they feel. While so many seem to feel this is outrageous you have to remember that doesn't change it for you, it can be outrageous to others but they are not the ones that have to be friends with these people. Often what is material to one is not to another but I highly doubt this is some shock to the OP about how her friends acted about their stuff.

It really comes down to the OP and her feeling towards the value of the friendship- often things are not 50-50 all the time.

[lmk1]

Originally Posted by Lazurii 

I actually don't think it's a big deal for them to have art supplies within their daughter's reach because she doesn't misuse them.  Our kids have free range of markers and crayons.

I agree that it's ok, but if you don't want other kids to use them, you put them away BEFORE they come over.  Just like any special toys that your child doesn't want to share on a playdate get put away before the other child gets there, so as not to make them feel bad.  The Dad making a big deal of putting the crayons away is just terrible manners.

Also, my kids were well done putting toys in their mouths by 1.5 or so ... but that doesn't mean that if another 1.5 year old came over, that I wouldn't let the mother know that there were potential choking hazards around like marbles or Legos, so she could use her judgment.  Or markers that don't wash out...just because your kid knows where to use them, I wouldn't assume that others do (if I cared about things getting drawn on).  I would probably put them away or supervise until I determined the other child's readiness to have these materials unsupervised.  I actually had huge sheets of paper on the floor and walls for my kids to draw on and put stickers on...but I didn't assume that any friends would know that everything stays on the paper.  

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

You really can not fault the other child here, she is a child and the fact is I'm sure the others knew anyway. It's not nice but how were the other parents to keep that child's mouth shut? Again, if this is a child you don't want your around- stop seeing them.

Regardless how you may feel, they were not your items. You may have one view on them and they clearly have another. Personally I had a spoon damaged by a guest who thought nothing of since I had others- well the one spoon made a difference in how many place setting I had and yes it did matter to me and it cost me! I solved my issue- the next time I served tea and didn't give them a spoon- they got the message very clearly- everyone else had one- I only had so many to go around, so yea, it did matter and the cost was high to replace the whole place setting since I could not just get one- they ended up paying. Too bad they don't use real silver, I do. What may seem like nothing to you may mean something totally different to another person- it is not for you to judge the reason. 

I feel, if it's a child or a pet that causes any damage, it is the owner/parent who has to step up-IMO. I would not think to not pay- if an older child learning to drive causes damage to say a neighbor's property or car I would not say- "well they are just learning.... tuff"- NO you step up, it's your child and you are showing your child you are taking responsibility. In this case you will never know who did what exactly but given that the other child has the items and never did it, I feel you take responsibility like it or not.  If you don't want to maintain the relationship that is one thing (real easy don't replace a thing and never deal with them).... if you do you take full responsibility and stop the blame game, either move on or have it eat at you. 

 We allow free range of supplies so I don't see that as something out of normal and I have never had a wall or an object destroyed. If the parents use a monitor - it is their house, you can choose to go there or not. The issue really seems to be IF you continue with the relationship or not- what it means to you. I don't think either side will just forget it. If these are people you want in your life you have to take how they feel. While so many seem to feel this is outrageous you have to remember that doesn't change it for you, it can be outrageous to others but they are not the ones that have to be friends with these people. Often what is material to one is not to another but I highly doubt this is some shock to the OP about how her friends acted about their stuff.

It really comes down to the OP and her feeling towards the value of the friendship- often things are not 50-50 all the time.

My view on this when looking at the whole scene described by the OP, it seemed to me like the young child had heard a lot of gossip. And, although you can not control how kids talk about things, there were things that the parent could have said to relieve some of the discomfort, which it does not sound like they did. 

As far as your experience of things not ever being damaged in your home - we have different experiences there. But, I am a fairly free-range type parent so there are often loads of kids running all over the place. That's how I like it and I take responsiblity for that (by not being upset if a kid damages something). I think if you are kind of free-range and you leave art supplies out and you've never had any one get paint or marker on something, you may want to count yourself lucky because it is certianly age-appropriate for something like that to happen. 

As far as the real silver thing -- we'll have to agree to interpret manners differently on that one. I was raised that to point out someones mistake in a public way is a far bigger breach of politness than it is to make a mistake in someone's home. If you have a future issue like that, I suggest ebay or the like -- I've been able to replace single items that way. HOW did and adult damage a silver spoon over tea service, may I ask? 

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

You really can not fault the other child here, she is a child and the fact is I'm sure the others knew anyway. It's not nice but how were the other parents to keep that child's mouth shut? Again, if this is a child you don't want your around- stop seeing them.

Well, maybe they can't prevent their child from blurting out graceless embarrassing statements. After all that's what 2 y.o's do, just like 3 y.o's. may draw on things other than paper. They could minimize the chance of it happening by not making a such a big deal about the incident in the first place, so their 2 y.o. would forget about it by the time they visited together again. When she said something embarrassing, her parents could have diffused the awkwardness at the door by saying something reassuring and comforting to their little guest. They could teach their child that it is bad manners to make a guest, no matter what age, feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. The last is probably the hardest, since they don't seem to have learned that lesson themselves. 

Since we are sharing war stories, here is mine. We invited friends with 3 boys, 13, 11 and 8 y.o., to dinner. The 11 y.o. accidently dropped a plate and it smashed into several pieces beyond mending. It was Wedgewood china and not inexpensive to replace. When it crashed to the floor, I immediately said "Hey, it's not really a party until something gets broken!", quickly cleaned up the mess and got out another plate for him - and yes, it was the same china.  I did my best to let him know that I wasn't upset and minimize the incident and reassure him so that he could enjoy his dinner and the rest of the evening and not feel embarrassed about visiting again. It never occurred to me to deny the kid a plate or snatch away the rest of the dishes and glassware and cutlery from him on the grounds that there might be another accident. If anything, I probably trust him more now because I know the accident made him more mindful. I honestly can't recall if they offered to replace it, but I'm pretty sure that they did. We brushed it off and I would feel terrible if that incident was anything other than a faint memory to any of our friends, especially that boy.  

[serenbat]

Quote:

HOW did and adult damage a silver spoon over tea service, may I ask? 

insisting on turning on my garbage disposal! I wasn't even in the kitchen but I heard it jam I went to the bathroom and asked that if you were going to help just SET everything on the counter

we don't use the disposal to begin with (we compost)---we also do not shove paper napkins down it either, they just starting shoving stuff!!!  This was an adult not a child.

actually ebay would have cost me more with the shipping from Denmark

[serenbat]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by serenbat 

You really can not fault the other child here, she is a child and the fact is I'm sure the others knew anyway. It's not nice but how were the other parents to keep that child's mouth shut? Again, if this is a child you don't want your around- stop seeing them.

Well, maybe they can't prevent their child from blurting out graceless embarrassing statements. After all that's what 2 y.o's do, just like 3 y.o's. may draw on things other than paper. They could minimize the chance of it happening by not making a such a big deal about the incident in the first place, so their 2 y.o. would forget about it by the time they visited together again. When she said something embarrassing, her parents could have diffused the awkwardness at the door by saying something reassuring and comforting to their little guest. They could teach their child that it is bad manners to make a guest, no matter what age, feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. The last is probably the hardest, since they don't seem to have learned that lesson themselves. 

again, this goes to what type of people the OP is choosing to be around- if this friendship means so much she should not complain- again, if you know these people you know how they act, I can't imagine this out of the ordinary for them- if you choose to be around them, you can expect it-IMO

[serenbat]

Quote:

 we'll have to agree to interpret manners differently on that one. I was raised that to point out someones mistake in a public way is a far bigger breach of politness than it is to make a mistake in someone's home.

I believe if you damage something of someone's (or what ever you want to call it) and you can monetary help or fix it......you should.

If you don't like what the person has- tuff! it's theirs....it cost them money

If you have the nerve (as in my case to think I had more spoons- so what!) too bad you didn't get one the next time you visited and too bad it did end up costing you. As a adult I feel you should have learned to take responsibility for you actions by that point. 

The person was lucky we were able to unclog the jam and that it didn't cost us more.

There are accidents but they cost money. We don't just as a society say, yea I don't need to take care of what I do- most have too.

We have to have car insurance in my state. If you are smart (or have a mortgage) you are required to have homeowners insurance- incase something happens- responsibility.

Accidents will always happen but bigger people take actions. I feel showing a child you are replacing the item is a good thing.

[rightkindofme]

One summer I hired a bunch of my high school students to come help me paint my house. They did a crappy job, but I was paying non-professionals $8/hour. It was good enough. Till one of the kids flushed a bunch of paper towels. Everyone denied it. These were 16/17/18 year old kids. They should bloody well know better. It cost more than a thousand dollars to fix. Making this project so expensive I would have been better off paying professionals--oh well.

I didn't go after any of the kids. I didn't go after their parents. Someone made a mistake. No one was willing to take blame, which makes me think that someone was feeling a lot of guilt. (I knew the kids pretty well.) It was a stupid mistake. They shouldn't have done it. They know now.

I am still close with them. I was mad and ranty for about a week but then I hugged each of them and said I was sorry for ranting. It was a mistake. Life is like that. Let's move on.