"Australian Vaccination Network" ordered to change "misleading" name. Could NVIC be next? - Page 3

[WendyAdams]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

Well that's not exactly true. If after reviewing all the information more and more people decide against vaccines, there go the vaccine profits. ;-)

Well that's not actually true.  If after reviewing all the misinformation more and more people decide against vaccines, more babies and children will die.

Is this what you want a return to:

http://www.boltoncemetery.org.nz/cgi-ddboltonce000/search.cgi?ID=102010&mytemplate=tp2

Five Duff children died tragically of diphtheria within 11 days. 

I have a question for you.  How do you intend to stop this occurring if vaccination doesn't occur?   Because Australia had a perfectly healthy 22 year old unvaccinated woman die of diptheria this year.     Those around her who were vaccinated did not catch it and did not die.   What's your solution if not vaccination?

[WendyAdams]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Interesting.

I'm wondering, Chicha, have you personally reviewed her son's medical records?  If not, why not?  I mean, if the McCaffery's have to release their daughter's private information in order to be believed by you, shouldn't Barbara Loe Fischer, also?

I do agree.

however, they are arguing not only for the release of information but for the right of unrelated individuals with no link to the family to contact the medical officials during the investigation.

By the way.  Meryl Dorey of the AVN claims a son is vaccine injured, but in the 20 years she has run this organisation I can find no record of her ever releasing what the vaccine injury is.  Indeed, I can even find information where she complains that the doctors say it's not a vaccine injury .. but nothing about the injury itself.  Yet, she rings the medical examiner during the autopsy to demand he do certain tests?  

Dana McCaffrey WAS tested prior to her death, it was already established that she had whooping cough.  Dorey simply didn't want it acknowledged because she says children do not die from VPD's now, and Dana's death in 2009 and Malakais death in 2012 from whooping cough do not work well for her organisation and their anti vaccination stand.     In the UK 13 babies have died of whooping cough this year, there is a woman on facebook that I talk to who's 11 year old son died of chicken pox, did you even know that they could die of chicken pox?  I didn't.  These diseases kill, and while we all need to make informed decisions that work for us we need to make those decisions based on ACCURATE information and not the lies that are spread by some people who's main goal is financial gain or power through fear.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

That leaves the parents.  How much are grieving parents required to share medical information with the media?  Because last time I checked, it was "not at all."

Of course they don't have to share any personal information with the media.

But if they're going to go on that media in addition to creating a website claiming that vaccines would've saved their baby's life, then I want proof. 

It's not asking a lot: was she tested or not?

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

I'm wondering, Chicha, have you personally reviewed her son's medical records?  If not, why not?  I mean, if the McCaffery's have to release their daughter's private information in order to be believed by you, shouldn't Barbara Loe Fischer, also?

I'd bet she would if you asked.

She's given what I assume to be sworn testimony in front of the California Senate about what happened to her son.

Quote:

Personally, I come here as a parent of a son who had a neurological reaction to his fourth DPT shot at age two and a half that caused brain dysfunction, including multiple learning disabilities and attention deficit disorder (ADD)

Testimony
Barbara Loe Fisher, Co-founder & President
National Vaccine Information Center
California Senate Committee on Health and Human Services
“Childhood Immunization Mandates: Politics vs. Public Health"
January 23, 2002

[kathymuggle]

Well.  I spent a few minutes over on AVN.org and can I just say there is some nasty fighting going on in Australia over this.  I do not know if Meryl is harassing the parents of the dead infant or not (how would I?)  I do know people on AVN are claiming to be harassed as well.  Here is  link:

http://avn.org.au/dossier-of-attacks-on-the-avn/

What a complete mess.  People are so fucked up when it comes to this issue, and hurt so many others.  

[WildKingdom]

Kathy, did you just drop the f- bomb? I'm shocked, just shocked.

Just kidding. Welcome to the club!

[lanamommyphd07]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Kathy, did you just drop the f- bomb? I'm shocked, just shocked.
Just kidding. Welcome to the club!

It pleases me that this is no longer a UA violation.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Kathy, did you just drop the f- bomb? I'm shocked, just shocked.
Just kidding. Welcome to the club!

I did.  I thought it was warranted.   We shall see what, if anything, happens.  

[WendyAdams]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

Of course they don't have to share any personal information with the media.

But if they're going to go on that media in addition to creating a website claiming that vaccines would've saved their baby's life, then I want proof. 

It's not asking a lot: was she tested or not?

Until you start validating everything you say, and I note that you don't, you have no right to demand it of anyone else.

[WendyAdams]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Well.  I spent a few minutes over on AVN.org and can I just say there is some nasty fighting going on in Australia over this.  I do not know if Meryl is harassing the parents of the dead infant or not (how would I?)  I do know people on AVN are claiming to be harassed as well.  Here is  link:

http://avn.org.au/dossier-of-attacks-on-the-avn/

What a complete mess.  People are so fucked up when it comes to this issue, and hurt so many others.  

Like everything that Meryl does, the 'dossier of attacks' is all fabrication.

[Turquesa]

"To be anti-vaccination is to oppose all vaccines for all people at all times. Do you have any indisputable, concrete, primary-source evidence that this is the official position of the National Vaccine Information Center?"

I'm bumping up my question because no one answered it. Anybody??

Wiki articles may work for seventh grade science projects but I'm after a higher caliber of evidence here.

I'll take your word for it on AVN--I hadn't heard of them until this brouhaha erupted. But NVIC? I call bull.

By the way, this mess in Australia is beyond-the-pale twisted. I'm going to make my vaccine decision based on available science, noted gaps in science, careful risk-benefit analyses, and ongoing dialogue with my physician. Watching one organization caterwaul and pick a cat-fight with another will have no bearing on my choices. It's just fringy, fanatical, and weird.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by tuxcomputers 

Name a single vaccine that they have recommended for a single person.

You dodged my question but I'll just mentally note that you're unable to answer it rather than press the issue.

NVIC opposes a one-size-fits-all vaccine regimen. The organization will neither oppose nor recommend any specific vaccines across the board. I'm not sure what you mean by a "single person" but it's out of their scope to provide medical advice to an individual.

[WendyAdams]

Originally Posted by Turquesa 

"To be anti-vaccination is to oppose all vaccines for all people at all times. Do you have any indisputable, concrete, primary-source evidence that this is the official position of the National Vaccine Information Center?"
I'm bumping up my question because no one answered it. Anybody??
Wiki articles may work for seventh grade science projects but I'm after a higher caliber of evidence here.
I'll take your word for it on AVN--I hadn't heard of them until this brouhaha erupted. But NVIC? I call bull.
By the way, this mess in Australia is beyond-the-pale twisted. I'm going to make my vaccine decision based on available science, noted gaps in science, careful risk-benefit analyses, and ongoing dialogue with my physician. Watching one organization caterwaul and pick a cat-fight with another will have no bearing on my choices. It's just fringy, fanatical, and weird.

Actually, it was answered, but you did the standard anti-vaccination thing of ignoring all fact that doesn't suit your opinion.  Wiki is fine in this instance as it stands uncontested.

You have an interesting view on Australian issues, when you live in a country where people walk into schools and shoot children.    I call bull on your opinion of the "mess in Australia", there is no mess, there is simply a woman who runs an organisation that funds her seemingly extravagent lifestyle fighting tooth and nail to keep the dollars coming in, and not letting the truth stand in her way.     The SAVN (the opposition in this instance) is not an organisation, but a gathering of concerned citizens addressing the issues of misinformation.   She accused me publically of bombing abortion clinics and sending her anonymous threatening emails and as I know I do neither I know she is lying.  She also has audio up of supposed middle of the night phone calls but if you run that audio through even a basic forensic app you will see that it has been digitally created or amended.

I think everyone should make their decisions based on available science, noted gaps in science, careful risk-benefit analysis and ongoing dialogue with their physicians which is why I, and others, fight so hard to get the misinformation off the internet.

[WendyAdams]

Originally Posted by Turquesa 


You dodged my question but I'll just mentally note that you're unable to answer it rather than press the issue.
NVIC opposes a one-size-fits-all vaccine regimen. The organization will neither oppose nor recommend any specific vaccines across the board. I'm not sure what you mean by a "single person" but it's out of their scope to provide medical advice to an individual.

So, given you dodged his question, the same can now be said of you can't it?   That's the problem with these silly games that people play.

I have a question that has also not been answered.

What's your answer to the issue of vaccine preventable diseases?

I now have a new question.  How does a government fund and run a vaccine program that is not "one size fits all", remembering that the program isn't really 'one size fits all' at all.

[WendyAdams]

I have another question about vaccination that the Australian anti vaxers won't answer .. how come they know that the kid who is friends with the kids pet from down the road, who knows another kid who has a 4th cousin 15 times removed who was vaccinated and got measles.

I couldn't tell you the immunistion status of the kids in my street and my street has only 10 houses in it, yet they can tell you taht every immunised kid has caught some vpd or other even if the kid is about 16 people removed from them.

of course then it goes to how they know that the media is wrong when they report the immunisation status of someone who dies of diphtheria.

feels like lies to me.

[japonica]

I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I'll tell you what goes on at my kids' school. Some kids come down with a VAD (like when pertussis went through in November 2011). The posters go up. Mums standing around at drop off and pick up time chat and along with the "I hear ___ is going around," there's also "Yeah, my kids got it and were home last week on antibiotics even though they're up to date. Weird. Oh well. Doctor says there's lots of it." School yard gossip either way. 

As for the diphtheria case in Queensland, there's probably a lot more to that case than was ever reported in the media, but then someone's private medical info is not my business anyway, which is how it should be.

[kathymuggle]

Deleted by QueenOfTheMeadow, because I've asked the quoted part of this post to be removed from the original post.  If the original poster does not remove that part of the post, the whole post will be removed.  If you have any questions please contact me directly via PM. 

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by WendyAdams 

So, given you dodged his question, the same can now be said of you can't it?   That's the problem with these silly games that people play.

I have a question that has also not been answered.

What's your answer to the issue of vaccine preventable diseases?

I now have a new question.  How does a government fund and run a vaccine program that is not "one size fits all", remembering that the program isn't really 'one size fits all' at all.

Right.  I am not answering your question, although I often do when people seem genuine. It has nothing to do with a non-vax "tactic" of avoiding answering questions.   You do not come across as worthy of answering.  Take your poison elsewhere.

[kathymuggle]

not worth it

Edited by kathymuggle - 12/28/12 at 8:37am

[lanamommyphd07]

My understanding of the NVIC is that there is the unanswered request for sound research regarding the safety and efficacy of vaccines. I get the impression that NVIC as well as most so-called Anti-vaxxers would be most interested to examine such research if an unbiased study presented itself, and perhaps they might make a well-informed choice about actually using one. Most nonvaxxers I know cite the lack of sound research about the drugs as the primary reason they avoid them. And so, based on some of this thread, I doubt the NVIC is in any kind of danger of being sued over the name.