mitochondrial disorders and autism

[kathymuggle]

A Coles notes version of Mitochondrial disease:

Children with a mitochondrial disorder can regress into an autism like state if one of several things happen.  One of them is a fever, and fever, as we all know, is a common side effect of vaccination.  Hannah Poling had an underlying mitochondrial disorder, and was awarded compensation for vaccines role in aggravating her condition into a autism like state.  

This article takes a look fever, autism and MD

http://blog.autismspeaks.org/2010/03/11/fever-regression/

"About 4% of children with ASD have definite mitochondrial disease^2,3 (5 of 120 = 4.2%).  In 12 children (12/17= 71%) the regressions began within 2 weeks of a fever greater than 101˚F.  In 4 of the 12 (33%; or 4/28 = 14% of all the cases of ASD and mitochondrial disease), the fever occurred after routine vaccination.  In 8 of the 12 (67%), the fever occurred after an infection or was of unknown origin.  Fever in patients with mitochondrial disease can occur with a known infection or inflammatory reaction, or can be a “fever of unknown origin” (FUO), without any cause that can be identified.  Five of the 17 (5/17=29%) had no fever or documented infection."

This meta-analysis puts the Mito rate in those with autism at 5%, and the general public at 1/1000

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3285768/

We know that fever causes some children with mitochondrial disease to slide into autism-like symptoms.  We know that a very common side effect of vaccines is fever, and that the fever only has to be over 101.

I do know that VAD can cause fever.  But you know what we don't have kicking around in many wealthy countires?  Most VAD's.  Feel free to check with the CDC pink book.

I know that some of you think vaccines keep VAD's from making a strong comeback (which is only the case with some VAD's, btw).  However there is no doubt in my mind that there are more fevers from vaccines than from VAD in the under 3 set.   Vaccines might be more dangerous to children with Mito than VAD's given the prevalence of most VADs.

In my mind, given the fact Mito are somewhat common, can cause a slide into autism and are brought on by fevers, it makes sense to delay vaccines until the period of "sliding into autism" (typically by 36 months) is past.  It might also give people time to realise if their child has mitochondrial disease, as this is not usually diagnosed at birth which is when vaccines start.  I realise some vaccines are important to some people for infants (pertussis and rota come to mind) but many can be delayed safely.  I also realise tylenol can decrease the likelihood of fever, but it may not decrease it enough, moreover tylenol can lower the immune response people want after a vaccination.  

Another interesting read (non -vax slant, and asks some good questions) on Mito and ASD:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

(sorry about the wonky formatting.  I tried to fix it to no avail)

Edited by kathymuggle - 12/27/12 at 7:51pm

[kathymuggle]

Another quote on mito prevalence and ASD:

http://www.epidemicanswers.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/ASD-Secondary-to-Mito1.pdf

"Autism secondary to mitochondrial disease (AMD) was once thought to be rare. However, several recent research articles suggest there is a cohort of ASD children with underlying mitochondrial disease. Some geneticists believe that the rate of mitochondrial disease may be as high as 1 in 200 live births,1 and the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation (UMDF) states that every 30 minutes a child is born who will develop a mitochondrial disease by age 10.2Thus, many children who exhibit ASD symptoms may actually have underlying mitochondrial disease; unfortunately at this time, they are “undiagnosed,” and many doctors are unaware of the emerging research. AMD can occur when there are problems within the process known as oxidative phosphorylation.

[babyfoodsteps]

One other thing to consider with mitochondrial disease... is that a number of common chemicals can be toxic to your mitochondria...

including acetaminophen and aluminum salts (like those found in vaccine adjuvants) (as well as MSG, aspartame, artificial colors, cry cleaning chemicals and pesticides)

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/mitoxic-why-acetaminophen-may-not-be-good-for-any-of-us-especially-mitochondrial-disease-patients/

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/mitotoxic-why-aluminum-may-not-be-good-for-any-of-us-especially-mitochondrial-disease-patients/

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by babyfoodsteps 

One other thing to consider with mitochondrial disease... is that a number of common chemicals can be toxic to your mitochondria...

including acetaminophen and aluminum salts (like those found in vaccine adjuvants) (as well as MSG, aspartame, artificial colors, cry cleaning chemicals and pesticides)

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/mitoxic-why-acetaminophen-may-not-be-good-for-any-of-us-especially-mitochondrial-disease-patients/

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/mitotoxic-why-aluminum-may-not-be-good-for-any-of-us-especially-mitochondrial-disease-patients/

Thanks for this!

I am trying to figure out the role of fever, vaccines, mitochondrial disorder and autism.

Avoiding fever seems to be key to avoiding a slide into autism for children with mito, but a quick google search does suggest acetaminophen is problematic in regards to mito:

http://www.mitoaction.org/forums/tylenol-versus-ibuprofen

This had a lot of interesting info about tylenol (yikes!  If most of it turns out to be true).  Discussion of mitochondrial, autism and acetaminophen are about half way down.  

http://guggiedaly.blogspot.ca/2011/01/dont-fear-fever-fear-fever-reducer.html

This was an interesting read, and it discussing whether the fever or the tylenol often used with fever is the culprit for autistic slides:

http://www.ravenintellections.com/gre/fever-mitochondria-vaccinations-autism.htm

I have no idea if the jury is in or out on whether fever or the acetaminaphen used to control fever cause the slide into autism in certain kids with mito, to me it still makes sense to avoid fever causing agents (including vaccines) when possible in the early years.

[babyfoodsteps]

here is the research I have done in relation to Mito and Vaccines...

it is a tangled web of which came first the fever or the mito or the tylenol or the vaccine or the...

well you ge it

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/v-is-for-vaccine/

hope this helps..

do you have a child with mito?

our little girl is suspected of having it... 

more of our story is here: 

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2012/09/20/mitochondrial-disease-our-journey-of-a-thousand-miles/

babyfoodsteps

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by babyfoodsteps 

here is the research I have done in relation to Mito and Vaccines...

it is a tangled web of which came first the fever or the mito or the tylenol or the vaccine or the...

well you ge it

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/v-is-for-vaccine/

hope this helps..

do you have a child with mito?

our little girl is suspected of having it... 

more of our story is here: 

http://babyfoodsteps.wordpress.com/2012/09/20/mitochondrial-disease-our-journey-of-a-thousand-miles/

babyfoodsteps

No, I don't.

I have 2 nephews with autism, though.  I do have quite the interest in how vaccine and autism overlap, due to my family history.  Neither of my nephews regressed immediately after vaccines, though, and no one in my family directly blames vaccines on their autism.

My younger nephew did regress (quite sharply) after a virus, though.  He was about 2.25.  

I am going to read more about mito and ASD, and see if either or both of them fit the profile. 

I don't know if they have mito, it seems quite common in children on the ASD.  They have never been tested.

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

A   In 4 of the 12 (33%; or 4/28 = 14% of all the cases of ASD and mitochondrial disease), the fever occurred after routine vaccination.  In 8 of the 12 (67%), the fever occurred after an infection or was of unknown origin. 

So 2/3rds of the fevers had no link to vaccines. In my experience kids do sometimes get fevers, and my kinds only once (to my recollection) had a fever as a vaccine reaction. But obviously fevers happen as relatively common reactins after vaccinations though so if there is a link between fever and development autism like symptoms, perhaps this explains why some parents are so adamant vaccines can cause the regression.

Is there any evidence that a person who developed autism following a fever could have grown out of that risk period? At the moment this just makes me more convinced that even if vaccines can trigger autism if it wasnt the vaccine it would have been something else (some other fever, either from a VPd, the common cold or other virus or an unexplained cause).

Interesting though. Thanks for sharing.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 


So 2/3rds of the fevers had no link to vaccines.

Yes.  They probably were not linked to VAD's either- more likely run of the mill colds and viruses.

. But obviously fevers happen as relatively common reactins after vaccinations though so if there is a link between fever and development autism like symptoms, perhaps this explains why some parents are so adamant vaccines can cause the regression.

Agreed.

Is there any evidence that a person who developed autism following a fever could have grown out of that risk period? 

I don't know.  My google-fu skills failed me in looking into this. Personally, I rarely hear of a child having a regression incidence with a slide into autism (not Aspergers) after about 3 or 4.  To me, this suggests a risk period, but I would like to see some data on this.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

 At the moment this just makes me more convinced that even if vaccines can trigger autism if it wasnt the vaccine it would have been something else (some other fever, either from a VPd, the common cold or other virus or an unexplained cause).
 

I missed this on the first read.

I think it is reasonable to try and lessen triggers for autism.  Maybe it won't work (although then at least you can say you tired…and we owe our kids that, IMHO).  I think that because autism really is a disease that sets its path from pre-conception and in the first few years, it make sense to create as safe an environment as you can in the first few years.  My 

[prosciencemum]

I think my point is I'm not convinced avoiding vaccines does significantly lessen the chance of having a fever (and therefore an autism trigger if that is one). I think you'd be hard pressed to find a child (vaccinated or not) who made it to 36 months having never had a fever of any kind. So perhaps some have their first fever following a vaccine, but they'd have had some other fever if not. I'm convinced that all avoiding vaccines would do is leave them vulnerable to VPDs in addition to having autism.

[Taximom5]

Who ever said that a fever alone is the trigger for autism?

There are many studies showing a link between thimerosal exposure and neurological damage, and aluminum exposure and autoimmune damage, vaccines and developmental issues, vaccines and seizure disorders, and vaccines and mitochondrial disorders.

Add a fever on top of that, and it's quite plausible that you would have a nice little recipe for autism.

The fact remains that vaccines are an invasive procedure, the science supporting their use is muddled at best, and riddled with conflicts of interest. Knowing that they can cause severe reactions and even death, they should never be mandated, and every effort should be made to screen for predisposition to severe reaction before recommending them at all. They should not be recommended to be given concurrently with other vaccines or medications without studying those risks as well. And "those risks" MUST include long-term developmental,neurological, and autoimmune outcomes.

[Taximom5]

Sorry, double post.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Who ever said that a fever alone is the trigger for autism?
There are many studies showing a link between thimerosal exposure and neurological damage, and aluminum exposure and autoimmune damage, vaccines and developmental issues, vaccines and seizure disorders, and vaccines and mitochondrial disorders.
Add a fever on top of that, and it's quite plausible that you would have a nice little recipe for autism.
The fact remains that vaccines are an invasive procedure, the science supporting their use is muddled at best, and riddled with conflicts of interest. Knowing that they can cause severe reactions and even death, they should never be mandated, and every effort should be made to screen for predisposition to severe reaction before recommending them at all. They should not be recommended to be given concurrently with other vaccines or medications without studying those risks as well. And "those risks" MUST include long-term developmental,neurological, and autoimmune outcomes.

 There was some concern as well with regards to thimerosal and mito.  Here is a link (I got it from babyfoodstesp - she has great links!)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16273274

With regards to fever, if every time you have a fever, you carry a risk (if you have Mito) of an autistic regression, then it makes sense to lessen the number of times one has a fever.

Even if a fever over 101 is causative close to 100% of the time, it would still make sense to try to avoid fever.  Who wants to think they could have avoided harming their children but did not?

I find the whole talk of "triggers" interesting.  If it were an allergen I was suggesting people avoid, people would be onboard.  Many people do avoid nut products and the like for very young children in the hopes they avoid becoming allergic.  Suggesting people delay vaccines until they sort out if their baby is a good candidate for vaccines?  Nah-hah.   

Screening for mito disorders is tricky.  I think it involves a muscle biopsy.  I cannot see them doing it en masse at this point in time (nor would I want them to - invasive!)  That being said, conservative estimates put the rate of mito and autism at 4-7%, and many of those who have mito experience a regressive episode following something (like a fever) that resulted into a slide or fall in to autism.  I think delaying vaccines makes the best sense until they sort this out.  

Edited by kathymuggle - 12/30/12 at 5:32pm

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

 I find the whole talk of "triggers" interesting.  If it were an allergen I was suggesting people avoid, people would be onboard.  Many people do avoid nut products and the like for very young children in the hopes they avoid becoming allergic.  Suggesting people delay vaccines until they sort out if their baby is a good candidate for vaccines?  Nah-hah.   

It's interesting that you use that as your example. There's zero evidence that that approach works, it may in fact make things worse, and it's no longer the current recommendation.

Even if it was, avoiding nuts and eggs might be a slight inconvenience. Avoiding vaccines leaves your child vulnerable when they need the protection the most.

[Rrrrrachel]

If you're going to delay vaccines, what happens when the actual diseases they prevent become more prevalent, and the fevers thy cause, and they cause mito flare ups, plus all the other complications that come with them? Children with mito disorders are at increased risk of complications and death from these diseases. They need vaccines even more than most!

You can't protect kids from fevers. They're a art of life. Hannah poling, for example, had frequent bouts with ear infections. It's not clear if those fevers or one caused by her vaccination caused her encephalopathy.

[Rrrrrachel]

And there's a whole lot of assuming going on here there ARE postnatal "triggers" for autism, which has not been established.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

If you're going to delay vaccines, what happens when the actual diseases they prevent become more prevalent, and the fevers thy cause, and they cause mito flare ups, plus all the other complications that come with them?

There is no evidence that fevers from VPDs cause more mitochondrial disorders than the vaccines themselves. If this were so, we would have seen a reduction in mitochondrial disorders (and autism) as the vaccine schedule tripled.

Children with mito disorders are at increased risk of complications and death from these diseases. They need vaccines even more than most!

Not when vaccines can trigger mito disorders that result in autism.  
You can't protect kids from fevers. They're a art of life. Hannah poling, for example, had frequent bouts with ear infections. It's not clear if those fevers or one caused by her vaccination caused her encephalopathy.

Or her frequent bouts with ear infections may have been the result of vaccines:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20825107/ns/health-childrens_health/t/shot-may-be-inadvertently-boosting-superbugs/  A vaccine that has dramatically curbed pneumonia and other serious illnesses in children is having an unfortunate effect: promoting new superbugs that cause ear infections.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

And there's a whole lot of assuming going on here there ARE postnatal "triggers" for autism, which has not been established.

The staggering number of parents who have video footage of the day before their children received vaccines (when the child presented as developmentallyy normal or even advanced), and the day after (when the child was spinning, flapping, toe-walking, screaming, head-banging, and unable to talk or manage eye contact), is more than assumption.

It's data.

Try listening to those parents.  You might learn something.

[Rrrrrachel]

Can you ballpark "staggering" for me?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Can you ballpark "staggering" for me?

I suppose staggering is a subjective term. But I will say that there are many cases as Taxi describes. All one has to do is google a bit and you could spend days looking at these videos.