Buffy Season Finale anyone?

[owensmom]

Any Buffy fanatics out there? I just watched the season finale (hooray for tivo!) - and at the start I thought it might be kinda lame, but I was nearly crying by the end. Wow. Glad Buffy and Dawn resolved their issues, I love Giles, Xander was yeah! and that thing with Spike! I thought it would be predictable, Spike the bad guy next year, but wow!

Anyway - anyone else in love with this show?

[Deni]

I am, but missed the finale - so what's the scoop?

Deni

[funnybunny]

If you missed the finale, there's a great article about Buffy/Willow on www.salon.com today - definately worth reading.

Do you think Spike will be evil again next year? I thought that would be the predictable result as well, but I thought he was given a soul at the end of his trials. What would be the effect of a soul on him? Good? Evil? Who knows - we'll have to wait until next season.

It was great to see Gyles back. I enjoyed seeing Buffy and Dawn working together. I was getting annoyed with the whole whiney Dawn/apologetic Buffy dynamic. Maybe now they get over some of their emotional issues and get one with being sisters/friends/slayers? I enjoyed Xander's role as well, he is not a spineless character and was given a chance to save the world. Yeah, Xander!!

It's great to find other Buffy fans out there... it is certainly not something I admit readily- people that don't watch don't understand that it is actually quite intellectually stimulating.

[owensmom]

Ah, here goes:
Warren (ringleader of the 3 nerds) is mad because Buffy botched their plans again, so he shoots her, and ends up shooting Tara too. Tara dies, and Willow freaks and becomes all dark witch girl bent on revenge. Willow saves Buffy with magic. Everyone tries to reason with her, but they can't. She tracks down Warren and does some nasty witch mojo on him and kills him. Now she is after the other 2 nerds and Buffy and the gang is out to stop her.

Willow does all sorts of stuff trying to find them while Buffy et al try to hide them. Willow runs into Dawn and threatens to turn her back to the ball of energy she was (Willow has lost all humanity and feeling). Willow and Buffy do a lot of fighting, and Giles appears able to work magic of his own. Seems some Coven in England could feel the pain and energy of Willow's new magic skills, so they imbued their power into Giles. Willow fights Giles and takes the magic from him - but because it is pure and not the hatefilled magic she has been using, she can feel emotions, and Giles can feel what she is thinking/doing. Giles knows that she is going to try to raise some sort of buried satanic temple and end the world so she can end the pain. Everyone leaves to try to stop her.

Oh, Willow sent out a little seeking ball of flaming revenge to find the nerds and kill them and anyone helping them (Xander and Dawn). Buffy gets to them just in time, saves everyone, there is a big hole in the earth that she and Dawn fall in, Xander is knocked out, the nerds run away to Mexico. Willow tells Buffy that if she didn't want to be here anymore, than she can return to earth and the walls start spewing out demonic roots of trees. Somehow there are 2 swords in there with them, (I think they are in the cemetary, perhaps in a crypt?) and she allows Dawn to help her and they fight the root monsters.

Giles says that nothing supernatural or magical can stop Willow. Xander appears where she is raising this temple and doing all sorts of magic stuff. He tells her that they are best friends and have always hung out, so if she is going to end the world he may as well be there with her. She keeps telling him to shut up and keeps hurting him, he keeps telling her that he loves her and that they are best friends and he isn't going anywhere (*very* sweet in that Xander sort of way). Apparently he is tapping into a tiny bit of humanity left in her thanks to the Giles magic, and her magic weakens and she collapses in his arms crying and turns back into regular Willow. Buffy and Dawn are buds, newfound respect, etc. Giles tells Anya that Xander has saved them all, and she looks all reflective (Xander blames himself for the whole ordeal because he saw the guy with the gun and froze before everyone was shot).

On a side note, Spike has gone to AFrica or something to some scary dude to get back to the way he was so he can take care of the Slayer (take care of in a bad way). He has to go through a bunch of fights and trials and tests, and when he has succeeded he says "now turn me back to what I was, I'm going to give the Slayer what she deserves" - and the guy gives him his soul back! Pretty sure that isn't what Spike was looking for ....

Whew!

[owensmom]

I know! Everyone thinks I'm crazy when I say I love it...

I was thinking that Spike was expecting to get the chip removed and to become William the Bloody again so he could "give the slayer what she deserved". But perhaps that demon was giving him something to really give her what she deserved, a real man (sort of) that isn't evil and can really love her? I was thinking he wouldn't be evil - sort of a new Angel or something...

I was glad they are past the whiney Dawn stuff.. enough! And Xander, I just love him, I was glad he saved everything... I was kind of hoping he and Buffy would get together, but maybe he and Anya will make up...

[funnybunny]

Owensmom - what a fabulous synopsis!

My mom (an occasional Buffy fan) missed the finale as well. I think I will send her the address to this thread so that she can catch up. Did you read the Salon article? Amazing that many critics "see the light" about Buffy, but not many others. Maybe it is because the show is not carried by the major networks? I admit the title of the show is a little hokey - but what else are they supposed to call it?

[scribblerkate]

Just wanted to chime in as a long-time Buffster fan. I think it is a great show that really challenges traditional television in so many ways. It's one of the bravest programs out there, IMHO.

I was thinking the finale was pretty dull, although I was happy to see Giles back. Ah, but the very last words brought a twist I was not expecting! Spike with a soul is exactly what Buffy deserves, but can they get over all the things that happened between them this season?

[owensmom]

Yeah, it is frustrating they aren't recognized and don't get Emmy awards and stuff, but there are a lot of people out there that really love the show. My friend is a high school teacher, and he shows a couple episodes for his class to illustrate historical stuff (I think he uses the one where Buffy runs away to LA and ends up saving people working in some underground factory, can't remember what he was likening it to...). That Salon article was great! I've been watching re-runs on FX since ds was born in January!

[Lilacmoon]

Lov Buffy, Spike Rocks and
Please don't
hurl tomatos at me Xander well,....ummmmm.. He is the one person on the entire show that drives me nuts, he is whinney and arrgghhhh.. sorry but I don't really like him. Hey self revelation here...I don't like the ordinary good guy and have the hots for a bleached,former blood sucking,arrogant, x creature of the night.... what does that say about me? Never mind I am sure that I really don't want to know. LOL

[Elphaba]

there is nothing wrong with a little spike lust.
when my hubby was out of the country, i dreamt frequently of spike and angel. i am a weird woman.
as for xander, he was such a neat character in the beginning, but now he seems rather superfluous. and fat.

[owensmom]

yes fat! I noticed that too, and it seemed to happen quickly! I thought maybe they were just dressing him frumpily. Maybe it is all the beer he is drowning himself in after he dumped Anya (confession coming - we were going to name our baby Anya if it was a girl...).

Anyway, I do find spike sexy, but I have a soft spot for Xander, geeky and bumbling though he may be... Maybe I like weak semi-losers, I have a soft spot for Chandler Bing too...

[faeriemom]

I have to disagree (politely ) with everyone's take on the "Spike getting his soul back thing."

I think getting his soul back is what Spike intended all along. If you'll go back and listen closely to the dialogue in the Spike storyline, you'll see that it was all very vague. Using vague dialogue to make people think one thing is happening and then springing a "surprise" on them at the end is a pretty common storytelling trick. Joss Whedon uses this trick a lot. (As a writer, I often use this myself.)

All along we were supposed to believe that Spike was so angry with Buffy that he wanted to "be what he used to be" (vague?) so he could "give her what she deserves." But, remember, since Buffy came back from the dead, Spike could fight her without hurting himself. It didn't matter whether or not he still had the chip in him -- if he was so angry with Buffy that he wanted to kill her, he could do so without having the chip removed and being a full-on vampire again.

But the big issue between Buffy and Spike last season was the fact that he loves her and she can't let herself love him because he's a soul-less monster.

So....if Spike becomes what he used to be (man with a soul), maybe he can give her what she deserves (love from a man who is not a soul-less monster).

Or....maybe he can be what he used to be (man with a soul) and give her what she deserves (a good a**-kicking, or death) because now he'll be able to fight in daylight as well as night, and she won't be able to just "stake him." Plus if he has a soul, Buffy might not be able to kill him since she's not morally supposed to kill anything but demons and vampires. This would give Spike a huge advantage over her if they were to battle.

Regardless of why he wanted his soul back, I believe it was what Spike intended all along and he wasn't surprised by what happened.

Again, it's all in the dialogue. Plus, the original ending wasn't going to be the demon-guy saying "I give you back your soul," it was just going to be a scene of Spike happily walking out into the sunlight the next morning...

Ok, I admit it. I'm a Buffy fan. And I'm a geek. But I had to share my thoughts on this because I love how Joss Whedon (et al...) handled that particular arc!

faeriemom

[owensmom]

ahhhhhhh.. wonderful faeriemom! I agree! So smart!!! I can't wait until the season opener!

[Elphaba]

explain to me why having a soul would mean spike can walk in the sunlight? angel has a soul and still has to stay indoors.

[faeriemom]

shoshannas mom -- I'm not sure how it will all be explained (or if it will). But if Spike can walk in sunlight, maybe it's more than him just having a soul. Maybe because he's been turned back into "what he used to be..." I really don't know.

You know, I can usually get bits and pieces of what Joss Whedon is doing/planning....but I still end up surprised most of the time at how he answers seemingly impossible questions (like when he had to explain how Buffy could be brought back to life).

Perhaps Spike won't actually be able to walk in the sunlight, maybe they scrapped that ending because they decided to go a different way (or maybe it was an intentional misinformation leak to throw us off). I have no idea. I just wanted to share my theory on the Spike storyline -- heaven knows I have NO idea where they're going with this! Maybe Spike's intentions were good, maybe not. But I too am looking forward to next season, and finding out where all this is leading!

owensmom -- what did you think of this season as a whole? For the most part I was disappointed, but I feel like the show usually has trouble during "transition" years (like the first season after they'd graduated high school and were starting college....and now this season where Buffy and Dawn had to adjust to being mom-less, Buffy had to adjust to being back from the dead, and Giles left for England). There were some really good episodes this season, but I hope next season will be a little stronger.

Oh yeah, I love Spike too! (Especially since the old episode that showed him before he became a vampire!) I was so excited when he and Buffy first "got together" but then every episode was just about them having sex (usually standing up, against the wall) followed by Buffy saying how disgusted she was with herself and that she'd never let it happen again! And then Spike and Anya consoling each other while the gang watched on web cam! Uggh....it just began to feel like a soap opera to me.

I did like the last two episodes though, because I'd been wanting a showdown between Buffy and Willow for a long time (and I love all the magic stuff)! Plus it was nice to see Giles again. I can't wait to see what happens with Willow next season, and how she deals with all the wicked things she did.

faeriemom

[owensmom]

I wasn't too happy with this season either - pretty glum and I found Dawn very annoying and the sex between Spike and Buffy lame too. I mean, I know they are all adults now so it won't be like it was first season and all, but come on, outside the Doublemeat Palace? and I get tired of Buffy always being mad, but when people want to help she just says "you wouldn't understand." Ack!

Dh also said that he didn't like it because before it was scary and violent at times, but in a supernatural comic book sort of way, not Buffy nearly getting raped and people getting shot by other humans...

[scribblerkate]

faeriemom, nice thoughts on the season finale, although I have to disagree with you a bit. Hope that's OK. After the show, I had the same thought as you about Spike's statements (give her what she deserves, wanting to be what he used to be). They were vague, and classic set-ups. BUT. In the previous episodes, he specifically told his flappy-eared friend that it "wasn't supposed to be this way" and that the chip was "keeping him from his true nature." I don't remember all the phrases he used, but I think I remember him talking about how he's supposed to be a killer and what-not. I could be imagining that, but even so, it's not necessary. The chip was keeping him from his true nature as a vampire, not a human. And, Spike made no bones about liking the kill. He liked being a vampire, and hated that the chip "castrated" him. In the last few episodes, he became angry because his passion for Buffy made him forget how much he missed being a vampire, and doing what a vampire does.

I fully believe Spike went to the demon intending to have the chip removed so he could go back to being a vampire. He liked being William the Bloody, and hated being William the "Wimp," which is how he felt as a human. The vagueness in the final episode, IMHO, was a plot device so that the demon could misinterpret and give him his soul. If Spike had said, "get this chip out of my head," then the demon would have had to fulfill that much more specific and less interesting wish.

Plus, it makes for a more interesting season if Spike wanted to be a vampire, but instead was given back his soul. Spike just spent several weeks getting himself into a frenzy in anticipation for killing Buffy in a spectacularly gruesome way. Instead, he's got a soul and now must deal with how things went toward the end of their relationship. (And all the people he's killed.)

I am kind of hopeful that next season will be one of light to contrast with all the darkness of this season. The last season finale ended with Buffy dying at night. This one ended with everyone living during the day. I hope that's a signal.

Oh, and I liked that Xander was the hero of this finale. It was such a nice change from the usual "strength will save the day" approach. I think those who were getting tired of Xander's whininess and superfluousness will see a more empowered guy next season.

Whoops, long post!

[Lilacmoon]

Just curious,....what if Spike does become a vamp again. (chipless, of course) and returns to revenge upon Buffy.....only to find out that it wasn't the chip that made him love her...........:

[faeriemom]

scribblerkate -- you may very well be right! Like I said before, Joss and the gang never cease to surprise me in some way. I'm just curious to see how it all plays out regardless of whether Spike intended to get his soul back or not. I think it will make for an interesting storyline either way! And next season just HAS to be better than this one! It HAS to!!

faeriemom

P.S. I still can't figure out why Buffy is working at the Double Meat Palace. Can she just not get a better job than that?

[scribblerkate]

I like that Buffy works at the Double Meat Palace. It adds to the complexity of the show's messages about female role models, IMHO, and about their characters in general. Buffy is strong and beautiful, but that doesn't means she succeeds in life. She still struggles, just like us mere mortals.

wildvic, I like your idea about Spike. That would be an interesting twist to deal with.

OMG, what is the point of Dawn? I stopped watching the show for a while when they brought her on in such a cheesy way, such a cheesy reason, such a cheesy character, and for no apparent purpose than to bring in a younger character. They could have finessed that a lot better.

OK, can you tell I haven't had anyone to talk to about this show in a very long time? :