Civil discussion amongst non vax/ vax skeptical parents - Page 3

[emmy526]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanamommyphd07 

I was kind of surprised about this--the CP vax came out and was touted as "great for the working parent!" but most peds were like, "uh, whatever..CP is really no biggie". But then, a few years have gone by and it's like "your child will die from CP if you don't get this vax". I'm curious as to how the jump occurred! How did the fear spread so fast?

Quote:

Originally Posted by elizawill 

regardless of the debate regarding vaccine necessity or safety, we can all agree that vaccinations are an industry that produce big bucks. IMO, the propaganda that chicken pox will save your child from death and deformity, etc. is the platform that sells it.  

my daughter is 11 & has never been vaxed for CP and has never had it. i had been struggling if i should get her the vaccine when she's 12 or not.  as i began to research more and more about that decision for her, i am convinced now even more than before that we will continue to not vax here. 

i can agree with both of you on what you're saying...i remember as a daycare teacher back in the 80's we used to joke around about how some day there'd be a shot for CP, and how parents would come to see it as a deadly disease, and BAM!! here we are!!  Fearmongering, hype, and bullling sells vaccines... the chicken pox vaccine is proof right before my eyes.  It has taken 30yrs to come to real fruition, but nonetheless, it HAS happened.  

[steele505]

I was raised in a religion that opposes vaccinations, so I was never vaccinated, and am now 61 y/o. I have traveled extensively in Europe, and even once to Malaysia, all without vaccinating.

My children, now in their mid-20s, were not vaccinated as children. I guess I'm posting this information to encourage anyone resisting vaccination that it is indeed possible to make it through life without vaccinations.

[Chicharronita]

Thank you Steele, and welcome to MDC. :-)

[oaksie68]

Quoting MeepyCat - "In re:  "deadly chickenpox", the material I have seen from public health authorities on the CP vax is that one of the things they are specifically trying to do is eliminate chicken pox as an economic burden for parents.  Because of the amount of time that a child with CP can't be in group care, chicken pox is a disease that parents sometimes lose their jobs over.  Eliminating CP helps reduce childhood poverty.  It is my understanding that that's why it's on the vaccination schedule.  (Better family leave and health care policies in the U.S. would do even more to reduce childhood poverty.  I'd love to see more of those.)

In regards to shingles - shingles is a recrudescence of chicken pox that remains dormant in the body after initial infection.  If you never get CP, you can't get shingles either.  A more widely applicable shingles vaccine would be a help here, but I'm not at all sure that increasing the exposure to CP virus in the general population would cut down on cases of shingles in adults.  The opposite seems highly possible."


I agree that the US needs better family leave/health care policies. I am very fortunate to be a SAHM, so I won't be in the position to worry about losing employment.

But here is another thought: as the CP vax was designed to decrease economic burden for parents, the actual results now (and in the future) are (and arguably will be) much different. If it's a burden for parents to take off a week (or even two) to nurse their child through CP, then how is the parents' economic burden reduced if the parents need AT LEAST that amount of time off (and may suffer longer and/or more than a child going through the typical course of wild CP infection) to recover from Shingles because they didn't get a natural booster from their kids' infection . I can imagine THAT could lead to (a) parent(s) losing employment, thereby negating the intended "benefit".

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by oaksie68 

But here is another thought: as the CP vax was designed to decrease economic burden for parents, the actual results now (and in the future) are (and arguably will be) much different. If it's a burden for parents to take off a week (or even two) to nurse their child through CP, then how is the parents' economic burden reduced if the parents need AT LEAST that amount of time off (and may suffer longer and/or more than a child going through the typical course of wild CP infection) to recover from Shingles because they didn't get a natural booster from their kids' infection . I can imagine THAT could lead to (a) parent(s) losing employment, thereby negating the intended "benefit".

Good point

It should be noted that the shingles vaccine is often only available for those over 60 and is not highly effective (it reduced the likelihood of getting shingles by about 50%, less for much older adults  http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/hcp-vaccination.htm)

Edited by kathymuggle - 1/1/13 at 5:29pm

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by oaksie68 


But here is another thought: as the CP vax was designed to decrease economic burden for parents, the actual results now (and in the future) are (and arguably will be) much different. If it's a burden for parents to take off a week (or even two) to nurse their child through CP, then how is the parents' economic burden reduced if the parents need AT LEAST that amount of time off (and may suffer longer and/or more than a child going through the typical course of wild CP infection) to recover from Shingles because they didn't get a natural booster from their kids' infection . I can imagine THAT could lead to (a) parent(s) losing employment, thereby negating the intended "benefit".

I didn't even think about that. Good point! 

[japonica]

Originally Posted by oaksie68 

But here is another thought: as the CP vax was designed to decrease economic burden for parents, the actual results now (and in the future) are (and arguably will be) much different. If it's a burden for parents to take off a week (or even two) to nurse their child through CP, then how is the parents' economic burden reduced if the parents need AT LEAST that amount of time off (and may suffer longer and/or more than a child going through the typical course of wild CP infection) to recover from Shingles because they didn't get a natural booster from their kids' infection . I can imagine THAT could lead to (a) parent(s) losing employment, thereby negating the intended "benefit".

Agree. My SIL was off work for weeks because her episode of shingles was severe enough that she just couldn't go in. IMO she was off for longer that she probably would have been looking after one of her kids with CP.

[oaksie68]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

…or because the parent themselves has shingles partly due to a decrease in the amount of wild CP floating around.

It should be noted that the shingles vaccine is often only available for those over 60 and is not highly effective (it reduced the likelihood of getting shingles by about 50%, less for much older adults  http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/shingles/hcp-vaccination.htm)

I've had a few pretty young friends (re:42 years old or YOUNGER) who have been diagnosed with Shingles, one of which spent about 3 days in the hospital on an IV. Knock on wood for me so far (with regard to getting Shingles). I think I've told this story before - my DD was one of two/the only student(s) out of 24 in her elementary school class *NOT* to come down with CP (she had one CP vax before I stopped). I hope that her exposure to this (without showing signs of an infection?) helped to boost her immunity, as surely as I hope the fact that I spent some time in the class helped me too! I'd like to avoid getting Shingles (for the rest of my life, not just for the 16 years until I hit the "golden" age of 60, which would make me "eligible for the vaccine, which I will NOT be getting. Ever.).

ETA: Need to add the word *friends* :-)

[Chicharronita]

My sister got shingles when she was pregnant (she was in her thirties).

She had just started taking vitamin C according to Dr. Klenner's protocol for pregnant women,  so she only got mild itching on her back (but that didn't keep her doctor from pushing meds on her for it; I guess he had trouble believing she was practically symptom-free?).

That experience sure made HER a believer in vitamin C's powers!

[Storm Bride]

This stuff about chickenpox and working parents is interesting. When ds1 was little, he got chickenpox. I was a WOHM, who didn't get paid sick days. I went to work while he was sick. My child care was in my home, which does make me luckier than most, but I knew other parents who made various arrangements to deal with this. It sucks - no way around it, but the chickenpox really weren't a big deal in his life, or mine - lots of time spent on comforting him, but that was about it. (He and my nephew each have one very tiny pock mark - ds1's is at the edge of his eyebrow, and my nephew's is on his nose.)

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about chickenpox. I've read quite a bit about it, but still can't decide which way to go. I tried exposing dd1 and ds2 to wild pox, but they never caught. DD1 is now 9, and ds2 is 7. I do have concerns about them getting chickenpox when they're older, which lead me in the "I should vaccinate" direction (the same reason I will probably vax ds2 for mumps in the fairly near future - the risk of getting it after puberty and possibly being rendered sterile freaks me out).

I find some of the talk about the diseases themselves a little over the top. I had measles. I had mumps. I had chickenpox. They really weren't that big a deal (esp. chickenpox!). I know some people do experience serious complications, but they're not generally a huge issue, imo and ime. (Okay - I lie. My measles were kind of a hassle, but only because they struck while we were several hundred miles from home, on a camping trip. My mom didn't find nursing a measles patient in a tent to be a barrel of laughs.) About 1/3 of my school was out with measles when I was 15, and that wasn't a big deal, either, except for being horribly disruptive to our school schedules.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat 

If you never get CP, you can't get shingles either.  

Unfortunately, this is a common misperception.

if you never get CP, but get the CP vaccine, you can get shingles, as the CP vaccine is a live-virus vaccine, and the virus will go dormant in a spinal nerve just as if you've had CP.  In fact, you might be MORE likely to get shingles if you've had the vaccine:  http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/01/12896.aspx (Chicken Pox Vaccine Associated With Shingles Epidemic).

[sassyfirechick]

My parents could have taken sick time when my sister and I had chickenpox as kids, but they didn't.  It was summer so we didn't miss school, and our grandparents alternated watching us in the summer so we had someone in the house (I was maybe 8, my sister was 6). I do remember my mother taking us to the town pool and having us wear a t-shirt over our bathing suit so the spots were less visible.  I can only imagine trying to take a kid out to a public place like that today!