Do you vaccinate your pets? - Page 2

[Rrrrrachel]

I had a dog treated for heart worms and its pretty awful. The treatment can easily kill them. Depending on your area the stats for contracting are also pretty grim.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by nia82 

Sorry to repeat, but what about heartworm? It seems to be big with dogs.

I never gave my dogs conventional heart work medications. They are toxic and there are alternatives. This is a great article on heartworm

http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

Quote:

According to the American Veterinary Medical Association, 65% of adverse drug reactions and 48% of all reported deaths resulting from drug reactions are caused by heartworm preventatives

I used this for HW prevention with my dogs

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-HW-Protect-Herbal-Formula/999068.aspx

[Silverring]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

These are vaccine reactions.

With respect, no they're not.  He had them when we got him, as a stray pup with no previous vet care and we didn't vaccinate for a while due to him being so ill.

[Mittsy]

Thanks for those articles Marnica! We have been back and forth over the heartworm pills issue with our dog, and hopefully this will help us come to a decision.

[nia82]

Thank you Marnica! We might move to a hotter climate where heartworm is prevalent. But since our poor dog has the MDR1 gene, ivermectin is especially bad for her. That's why I low-dosed it to begin with, she seemed fine but still... I'd rather try the natural stuff. Any track record for it?

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by nia82 

Thank you Marnica! We might move to a hotter climate where heartworm is prevalent. But since our poor dog has the MDR1 gene, ivermectin is especially bad for her. That's why I low-dosed it to begin with, she seemed fine but still... I'd rather try the natural stuff. Any track record for it?

Any information I found on the product I used was anecdotal of course as most things are with herbal remedies. If you look at the ingredients, many of them are well known and well documented herbs used for worms and parasites of all kinds

[nia82]

Thanks... I'm just scared for her in case we move to like... Texas. How come flea and heartworm was nothing ever mentioned back home in Europe? Our cats never had vaccines (rabies is gone in my home country), flea control meds nor heartworm meds (local vet tried to sell me heartworm meds for the cats). They lived fine like every other cat in town. The biggest threat were and are still car accidents to them.

[Lookingup]

We are contemplating a move to TX, so thanks for that heart worm link.

We've never given our dog conventional heart worm or flea drops.  She gets Natural Defense during tick season, and I use Molly's herbal wormer.  Both seem quite effective.

Moya came with puppy shots.  We did the initial rabies after that, and she vomited severely.  I'm not doing it again.  I feel like vaccine reactions must run in our family, human and otherwise!  The cat (outdoor) got the one and three year rabies but now I'm done.  My chickens got vaccinated in the egg only because I was too lazy to do the research.  ;)

For those wondering about kennels, yes, they might need them all, but there are a lot of folks who do small time dog-sitting in their homes.  Our groomer does it (she just required rabies.)  A friend who works at Guiding Eyes does it too, and she didn't ask for a thing.  Ask around. 
 

[sassyfirechick]

For fleas and ticks:  garlic, brewers yeast, diatomaceous earth (food not pool grade) can be added to food to repel from the inside out.  Topicals rely on the pests biting the animal and then dying as a result of ingestion.  But, like some of you experienced, the bugs become resistant to the chemicals and so you would need to switch brands for them to work, ie go from frontline to advantage or vise versa.  Better option - diatomaceous earth on the skin.  It's soft to the touch to use, but at a microscopic level it's needle sharp so it pierces the skin of fleas causing them to dehydrate and die - they can't become immune to that.  I use a garlic supplement from springtime inc http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs and in the last 4 years have not found a single tick that has bitten my dogs and we live in CT, the birthplace of Lyme disease, heavily infested with ticks, and we hike often.  My older dog with anaplasma contracted it while on frontline while she was younger and I pulled ticks off them almost daily.  If you have a flea problem, sprinkle diatomaceous earth outside, and in the house in dark areas like under furniture, in the wells under couch cushions, on carpets - fleas lay eggs in dark areas.

A proper diet will also naturally repel many bugs - pests feed on the weak.  No grains, as much raw meats as possible. 

Cider vinegar works to sooth flea bites.

Agreed to the only natural pet link for natural HW medication.  If you do go with the prescription meds, only do them during times when weather is warm enough to support mosquitos.  MDR1 dogs can use interceptor, but avoid heartguard and any drugs listed here: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/drugs.aspx.  They are the only lab in the US liscensed to test for the MDR1 gene.

I used to use the Natural Defense on my dogs but beware of reactions to that too - some dogs are highly sensitive to the high concentrations of clove oil.  One of mine broke out in hives and ran in circles until we bathed him.  But if it works for you the smell is fantastic!

Only Natural Pet also offers herbal dewormers http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Para-Gone-Herbal-Formula/999022.aspx.  I've successfully treated giardia and whips numerous times with this.

[sassyfirechick]

Originally Posted by Silverring 

With respect, no they're not.  He had them when we got him, as a stray pup with no previous vet care and we didn't vaccinate for a while due to him being so ill.

I wouldn't vaccinate a dog with allergies as they will only intensify.  My dogs had KC as pups as well and they too nearly died from a combination of a virulent strain and overvaxxing.  I would NEVER vax for KC as it's less than 50% effective in most cases and can be better treated with vit c and garlic.  What do you feed your dog? As that will have a major affect on allergies.

[nia82]

Interceptor and interceptor like drugs were pulled off the market last July....

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Silverring 

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

These are vaccine reactions.

With respect, no they're not.  He had them when we got him, as a stray pup with no previous vet care and we didn't vaccinate for a while due to him being so ill.

Vaccinating an immune compromised animal, especially annually, is IMO a very bad idea, whether or not you think he is vaccine damaged, no wonder he has health issues. Just a reminder this is the I'm not vaccinating forum, vaccine debates are off limits.

Oscar is an au naturel doggy, so no HW, flea/tick meds, ever. He did have a handful of fleas a couple of weeks after we got him as a pup, but I got rid of them in a couple of days with garlic water and a flower essence combo for "pests". I have found that an unvaccinated animal is pretty much like an unvaccinated child, they just don't get sick that often, and if they do they bounce back very quickly.  Oscar is also raw fed (prey model), which I believe is the appropriate diet for a opportunistic carnivore.

[Silverring]

I'm sorry.  The question was 'do you vaccinate your pets?'.  It's pretty unfair to tell me I'm responsible for my dog's health problems then to tell me I'm not allowed to debate this with you..  I've already explained that he was already ill when I got him.  He didn't get worse after his vaccines.  He's much, much better thanks to my careful care and the natural diet I feed him (also raw.)

I won't contribute further out of respect for you.  I hope you'll do the same and not attack my care of my dog further, who is only alive because of my speedy interventions, my insistence on allergy testing and my adherence to a strict, natural diet for him.  And of course the skilled care of the vet who saved his life when he first arrived with us.

[kathymuggle]

So many people are so neglectful and even heartless towards animals in their care.  

Mizram and silverring…even if you two disagree on how to care for animals in some regards, it is very clear you both love your animals and take good care of them, which certainly has my respect.    My peace-making words for the day (and now you probably both want to cyber-slap me, lol).  .  

Ok - back to pet vaccines:

Anyone have any ideas on what vaccines are the worst and which ones you might consider in some circumstances?

My default is "none" where vaccines are concerned, but I admit to knowing little about pet vaccines.

Are all rabies vaxxes the same?  There is a one year and 3 year version where I live. Is there any difference in safety profile between 1 and 3 yr rabies shots?  

Edited by kathymuggle - 1/4/13 at 5:24pm

[Rrrrrachel]

Yes. There is. Especially for cats but I think for dogs too. I can't remember which but one causes tumors at the injection site.

[kathymuggle]

I thought this was a good read on rabies vaccines and animals.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/06/21/expert-proof-most-pets-are-vaccinated-way-too-often.aspx

Some snippets:

"I asked Dr. Schultz if the 1 and 3-year rabies vaccine products are the same. His opinion is most of them are. There is also a 1-year feline rabies vaccine that has no adjuvant, but there is not at this time a similar 3-year product…...

With regard to vaccine-associated sarcomas (VAS) in cats, Dr. Schultz believes it's preferable to give the non-adjuvanted 1-year rabies vaccine over the 3-year vaccine containing adjuvants. Whereas the non-adjuvanted 1-year vaccine created no inflammatory response at the injection site (a marker for tumor development), adjuvanted rabies vaccines are known to cause more VAS. So even in genetically predisposed kitties, it is assumed the non-adjuvanted product, even given yearly, is less harmful than the adjuvanted vaccine."

So…really tentatively…..3 years is fine for dogs (versus 1 yr), cats may be better off with a 1 yr non-adjuvanted vax.  I am naughtily skipping rabies for my cat (indoor cat) so I am not concerned, but it may help others.

The article below was also useful and re-iterated that non-adjuvanted vaccines for cats (the only one availible at the time of the article (2011) was called purevax )

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/veterinaryqa/f/RabiesVaccine.htm

There are useful links in both of the above articles.

[sassyfirechick]

Originally Posted by nia82 

Interceptor and interceptor like drugs were pulled off the market last July....

You'd have to ask around, I know my vets - holistic and the vet we keep for anything surgical/emergency - both had a pretty good supply and they were due to begin manufacturing again.  None of the animal prodcuts were involved in the recall and nothing was pulled, they just shut down the plant that manufactured them because of issues with human drugs and needing to update the facility and so nothing new was able to be shipped out  http://www.ah.novartis.us/FAQ/FAQ.htm. 

[sassyfirechick]

The best way to avoid more than necessary rabies is to not give the first vax unitl they are 1yr.  Current protocol is puppies must be over 12 wks, thye get a puppy rabies shot.  Then at one year they get a 1yr 'adult' rabies, and the following year, provided you before the 'expiration' date of the last vaccine, they are eligible for the 3yr.  If they do not recieve the first vaccine until they are one year, they will be eligible for the 3yr thus giving them only 2 vaccines in a 2 yr span vs 3.

Most inefective would be the lyme, kennel cough, and giardia.  Giardia was actually discontinued by the manufacturer in 2009 bc of it's limited effectiveness. Kennel cough or the technical name "Bordatella" is similar to human flu with various strains that change year to year.  Lyme is a double edged sword - If you live in a lyme prone area many vets recommend it.  It's not a guarantee.  BUT, if your dog or cat is bitten by a tick and you test for lyme, a positive result may just be indicative of the presence of lyme from the vaccine and not from exposure.  I can''t seem to find any info from pfizer (they acquired the LymeVax from Fort Dodge) but according to the vets I've spoken with, both holistic and conventional, it's not very effective.  Personal experience - 2 dogs, vaccinated for lyme, still contracted it; another dog, vaccinated, never seems to test positive for any tick disease yet displays every classsic symptom.

Kathymuggle, it would seem, according to this article it's not the 1 vs the 3 yr that has a different rate of safety, rather it's the brand being used and how it's administered. http://www.2ndchance.info/fibrosarcoma.htm

"5) Veterinarians that see many cases of VAS sometimes begin giving their vaccinations in a lower rear leg. Although the plan is somewhat gruesome they realize that a tumor occurring on the leg would allow the leg to be lost but the cat to be saved."

Talk about being horribly non-proactive!  "well it's probably going to cause a tumor so let's inject it on the leg so we can plan for an amputation in a few years!".

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Are all rabies vaxxes the same?  There is a one year and 3 year version where I live. Is there any difference in safety profile between 1 and 3 yr rabies shots?  

I was told by our vet that the same vaccine is used in both cases.  (?!?!)

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Are all rabies vaxxes the same?  There is a one year and 3 year version where I live. Is there any difference in safety profile between 1 and 3 yr rabies shots?  

I was told by our vet that the same vaccine is used in both cases.  (?!?!)

Taxi is correct, they are exactly the same, just labeled differently.