Help, I'm in tears!!

[MrsBone]

Ive had a very successful day with the advice I've seen in talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk, my son and I even talked about how there would be no fighting bedtime and talked about how we have to get up early tomorrow so he has to go to bed on time. Right after dinner I told him it was bathtime and he started fighting me right away. wouldn't take his clothes off, wouldn't get in, didn't want to wash his hair, doesn't want to rinse it... And on... I tried to make a deal with him.. Let him have some of the power and he agreed then taught me again. My husband is currently in the other room trying to get him to calm down because we took away his privilege to watch tv tonight.. He won't stop crying because of that. Hubs and I both lost out cool and yelled at him and now I feel bad. Hubs keeps telling me we just need to spank him. He knows I'm against it but in situations like these he thinks its the only answer. He knows it will never fly with me but I don't really have a good alternative. I don't know what to do now.. I had to brush his teeth for him(he's 4, not an easy task) and tried to put his Jammie's on for him but he just kept taking them off and now he's hysterical while I'm putting the baby to bed.. He keeps asking for mommy. I just don't k or what to do in this situation. Bedtime is the worse!!

[NorthernFamily]

I have no thoughts just hugs!

[rightkindofme]

Have you ever heard of the book Don't Shoot the Dog ? Even though it is not all that socially acceptable that is probably one of my biggest parent-behavior-training books. No I don't think my kids are dogs. But treating them like non-rational beings I have to sometimes deal with is useful for my brain. I love this book. It has been very helpful for both me and my husband.

And from the husband point of view--it's not exactly hand-holdy and woo woo. It's concrete and specific about why different training behaviors work and don't work. I know some people don't believe in behavioralist training but I think that all cultural context is about behaviorism in action. 

Spanking will teach your child things you don't mean to teach. I'm fairly fanatically anti-spanking. It's a stress relief for the parent not a teaching tool for the kid. :(

[mary934]

My response got lost so briefly. Check out the Ross Greene's  CPS - collaborative problem solving approach. The mantra is kids do well if they can , not if they want to - they mostly want to do well , be successful, adaptive and flexible. In order to help your dh wear the lenses of lagging skills being the source of his challenging behavior check out the ALSUP - assessed lagging skills and unsolved problems list. Lagging skills are taught by indirectly by actally enaging in cps. The focus is on unsolved problems - not behaviors . The mistake people make is that they present their ' CONCERNS' in terms of solutions - so discussions become - duelling solutions rather than getting first a clear picture of the kids concerns , then putting our concerns on the table, defining the problem , then brainstorming realistic and durable solutions , agreeing to come back to the drawing board if the 1st solution does not work.

so bedtime - what are his concerns , often a kid is not tired - here melatonin helps to reset his biological clock , create a bed time ritual with him , include breating, meditation, self soothing 

transitions - help him give him warning , use a timer , find out what his concerns are when transitioning 

rewards, consequences don't teach skills , may help to get compliance in the short term but more than often promotes meltdowns in stead of thinking and perspective taking 

try lower the rope with Plan C , so that there are fewer negative interactions and gives time for connecting and doing thing together , using ' guided participation ' - promoting thinking.

and trying to use Plan B to solve actual problems. Plan B is messy , not easy , not a magic bullet .

check out a collection of video clips on CPS   http://tinyurl.com/c7chvj7

I hope this helps 

[mary934]

Also useful for trnasitioning to create with him a schedule using pictures , so it is his list that is giving him the cues and not you telling him what to do . We need to be responsive to kids who have low frustration tolerance , inflexible and not adapptive when the demands that outstrip their skills are placed on them 

[mumkimum]

Bedtimes can be a big struggle. . . what is your talking about bedtime earlier in the day like, with your ds?  What are your ds's biggest concerns (or most important things to look forward to - I'm guessing tv watching?) that are part of bedtime?  Are there actually too many steps - too drawn out a ritual (we have 1 dd who likes a long and involved bedtime and another who just can't do all kinds of stuff at bedtime and needs it to be just 2-3 tasks)?.  Does he hate one or two particular things?  Does he need cool-down time (like tv watching)?    

Could you separate tv watching from bedtime or do baths/hair washing less often (assuming he isn't very dirty)?  Would either of those things help?  (just guessing they might be disliked/liked from your post and making bedtime not contingent or involved with them may help?).  There are so many ways you can do bedtime - it takes time to find the right way for your ds.  And it might change sometimes.

Realistically, I doubt that spanking your ds in this situation will end up with him going "oh, now I see" and peacefully get ready for bed calmly, yk?  Having that happen is a process you all work at together.   

[phathui5]

I've started giving my 5 year old melatonin before bedtime the past couple of days and it seems to be helping. I also talk it up when it give it to him, about how it will help him wind down and go to sleep.

[MrsBone]

Wow. What a difference a good talk with the hubs and instituting more consistency with discipline can do! It's like night and day over here. I realized that during the day when hubs was at work just how inconsistent I was being with warnings and consequences. I made a ton of changes and really started following through with threats and its made a huge difference. I can tell my son is actually listening to me now, and in turn I am more willing to listen to him. We started getting the kids ready for bed before dinner so that when daddy came home he could eat dinner with us, play with the kids, read both the kids books before bed and brush their teeth and put our son to bed. I thought it was going to be a lot more work for me but its actually been okay. My kids are both listening and cooperating much better and the whole day is just so much less stressful overall. My son is also getting along with his sister better too. It's a win!

[rightkindofme]

That's great to hear. :)

[mumkimum]

Yay for you, OP!  Glad things are going better.

[foxbrent]

Well though I'm not a parent yet I think such attitude is normal for children and also it's a normal thing for a parent to get pissed  off sometimes but what  my mom is always even it is really hard she just enjoyed the  time when we are still child 'coz when we grew up she will really miss the children in us.

[Snapdragon]

have you tried offering rewards for complying rather than punishments for not? I know some ppl don't like"bribery" but I have found simple treats and reward incentives- oferring the child somehting they like rather than threatening to take away somehting they like- works better and keeps everyone happier. I am not sure how old your kids are as I only skimmed the thread.

[MrsBone]

After reading this thread I've begun to focus more on rewards and less on taking points away and it seems to be helping a lot. The only problem is that DS doesn't listen to DH nearly as well. So the only leverage he has is to take things away. What to do!?

[rightkindofme]

Neither giving rewards nor punishing are effective ways of motivating a child. As soon as the "motivator" (reward/punishment goes away) the behavior reverts.

It sucks. I wish it worked. AHHHHH!!!! 

I uhm... barely bathe my 4 year old. I might scrub her down with a washcloth if she looks dirty but mostly she takes a bath once a week. It's basically a play bath. She won't let me wash or brush her hair so I keep it short. She has learned that we must brush our teeth because of bugs that will eat our teeth due to the sugar we eat. If she wants to go on an all vegetable diet I'd be willing to negotiate no more teeth brushing but until then it's non-negotiable. I'm really OCD about dental hygiene. My family has a history of dental problems due to a variety of issues: poverty, lots of sugar, poor brushing habits, lack of dental insurance... etc. So my kids started getting their teeth brushed the day a tooth appeared. I'm fanatical. That is the one and only thing I have wrestled my kids down and done. The whole time I apologize over and over and keep saying, "I have to take care of your body; I'm really sorry you don't like it." In her whole life we have probably wrestled her to the floor forty-ish something times That sounds like a heinous amount. I can live with it. 

My husband has learned to bribe the kids for tooth brushing though I don't. When he does bed time they get youtube videos (often Annoying Orange--sigh) only if they cooperate with tooth brushing.I simply say: "It is time to do this. No. I'm not sitting through Annoying Orange. Let's go read a book." My kids are very familiar with the idea that different people have different preferences and rules. :)

My 4.5 year old can give you a half an hour lecture on proper dental care and the problems that come from not brushing properly. She sounds hilarious. Tooth brushing is something we do because if we don't then bugs start to eat our teeth. We do a lot of playful "chasing down tooth bugs" at night with the toothbrush. It gives me great opportunity to work on my monster voices. It's fun. I remind them that we brush our teeth because we love our body and we want it to be healthy. If we don't brush we can't be healthy. Your teeth are linked to your entire body's health. And when you don't brush properly you have to experience costly, often uncomfortable or painful dental work. It sucks. 

I have an implant due to poor dental care as a young person.  It was ridiculously expensive and I really wish I could have spent that money in other ways.  AND YET I know I am very lucky that I was able to afford a really talented dentist who managed to make referrals and all of the work was quite painless. Not everyone has enough money to spend to get that result so I'm grateful for the experience even as I wish I hadn't needed it.

So! I talk about teeth. So my kids don't fight tooth care. They are totally brainwashed. They believe they must do it for their health! It's cute. :)