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Meningitis vaccine paralyzes 40 children in Chad? - Page 2

post #21 of 95

post #22 of 95
Personally I thought the numbers put the general situation for the health of children in Chad in context.

I don't consider a video of sick children in Arica proof often original claims.

If it did happen I'm sure is being investigated. As the original article points out this is a relatively new vaccine - the first ever developed for Africa specifically to reduce costs and try to save as many lives as possible. So I'm sure the developers do not wish to harm children and will be investigating any claims that their product has done that.

I'll look for.numbers on meningitis in chad. I guess WHO might have that. I have a pretty busy few days at work so it might be a while. If someone else could do that I would appreciate it.
post #23 of 95
Chad is in "the meningitis belt" so I'm sure the numbers are bad. That doesn't make 40 paralyzed kids, even out of thousands of vaccines administered, ok. If its true.
post #24 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Personally I thought the numbers put the general situation for the health of children in Chad in context.

I don't consider a video of sick children in Arica proof often original claims.

If it did happen I'm sure is being investigated. As the original article points out this is a relatively new vaccine - the first ever developed for Africa specifically to reduce costs and try to save as many lives as possible. So I'm sure the developers do not wish to harm children and will be investigating any claims that their product has done that.

I'll look for.numbers on meningitis in chad. I guess WHO might have that. I have a pretty busy few days at work so it might be a while. If someone else could do that I would appreciate it.

There are potentially 40 children who were paralyzed by this vaccine. That is the issue. Period.
post #25 of 95
Yes. Potentially. Given it happened an ocean away in a country with iffy media outlets its hard to know for sure. If it is true, I'm sure we all agree its horrible. What's to discuss?
post #26 of 95
You're quite right that its irrelevant if indeed these 40 cases are real and a vaccine reaction, but I still wanted to find out (data and all that).

In Jan-march 2012 there were 88 deaths in Chad from meningitus.
http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-a-programmes/dpc/epidemic-a-pandemic-alert-and-response/outbreak-news/3600-chad-meningitis-outbreak-situation-as-of-25-march-2012.html
post #27 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Yes. Potentially. Given it happened an ocean away in a country with iffy media outlets its hard to know for sure. If it is true, I'm sure we all agree its horrible. What's to discuss?


By that rationale, what's to discuss on this board about anything, ever?

It's a case regarding widespread damage caused by a vaccine. Pretty relevant, but maybe that's a problem for those who choose to ignore the issue that they do damage at all. The sheer possibility of this occurrence probably makes it it too uncomfortable to discuss.
post #28 of 95
I've not met these people who choose to ignore vaccines do damage. I, myself, have stated many many times that they do. I haven't even denied the possibility that they did here.

Other issues have a lot more information to share and ambiguity. This comes down to "my blogger says this happened" "well my blogger said it didn't."

And I wouldn't call this widespread.
post #29 of 95
Thread Starter 
La Voix isn't a blog, its a newspaper, and thats who originally reported the story.

And 40 out of 500 children are paralyzed and you wouldn't call that widespread? Given the group, that's a huge percentage thus widespread. Is it widespread among the general public? Well no, but you can't be affected by the shot if you didnt get the shot.
Edited by eireann - 1/14/13 at 8:45pm
post #30 of 95
Why out of 500? Way more than that have received the vaccine.
post #31 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Why out of 500? Way more than that have received the vaccine.

I guess you didn't read the article then.

 

Some questions raised in the piece:

 

 

 

Quote:
Why were 500 children vaccinated in a region that has only one doctor, who was unable to provide advice or treatment for adverse events until one week later? Why did the manufacturer of MenAfriVac specifically advise that the product should be stored and transported at much lower temperatures than The Meningitis Project claimed? Why were the parents of these vaccine-injured children paid hush money?

From the La Voix article provided by vactruth:

 

 

 

Quote:

Environs 500 gamins ont reçu la substance qui permet, par inoculation de les immuniser de l'inflammation des meninges ce jour la. Chose curieuse, juste apres avoir reçu le vaccin, 40 des 500 enfants vaccinés tombent malades, hallucinent, font une crise convulsive et finessent par parayses.

 

 


Edited by Mirzam - 1/15/13 at 5:54am
post #32 of 95
I know vactruth saying out of 500, I just don't see why that should be the group under consideration vs all menafrivac recipients.

The act that the alleged reactions are limited to one remote village to me means this is NOT wide spread.
post #33 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I know they are saying out of 500, I just don't see why that should be the group under consideration vs all menafrivac recipients.


If the rate of adverse events is usually much lower, then in the interest of figuring out what happened to these 40 kids, it's totally relevant to look at the group that was vaccinated that day and see what was going on.  Was it a specific lot?  Was it stored improperly?  What happened?

post #34 of 95
I agree on that front. I just don't see how saying 40 kids out of 500 makes it widespread.
post #35 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I agree on that front. I just don't see how saying 40 kids out of 500 makes it widespread.


Until/unless they can figure out what happened, it can be assumed that it could happen again, possibly easily.  If the methods of reporting are somewhat sketchy, it's possible it has happened before.  So while the word "widespread" might not be the most appropriate, I think there are good reasons for concern.

post #36 of 95

Sure.  IF it happened and IF it was caused by the vaccine.  It seems unlikely that IF it happened it was caused by the vaccine, and in rural africa there are certainly lots of other candidates.

 

Lizditz has a good handle on some of the concerns brought up (cold chain, proximity of symptoms to vaccine administration, type of symptoms, etc)

 

http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/01/is-it-true-that-a-meningitis-vaccine-paralyzed-many-children-in-chad.html

 

Over 100 MILLION menafrivac vaccines have been administered.  Even IF these events are exactly as reported by vac truth and they were caused by the vaccine, I don't think 40/100 million is widespread by any stretch of the imagination.

post #37 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

 

 

Over 100 MILLION menafrivac vaccines have been administered.  Even IF these events are exactly as reported by vac truth and they were caused by the vaccine, I don't think 40/100 million is widespread by any stretch of the imagination.

There is no way you can substantiate that there have only been 40 adverse reactions to the one million doses administered. You have no clue how many adverse events have occurred. Something obviously went horribly wrong with the administration of this vaccine with this group of children that 40 out of 500 were injured.

post #38 of 95

I'm only speaking to this incident.

 

 

I agree that IF these injuries happened as reported and IF they were caused by the vaccine something went terribly wrong.

post #39 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I'm only speaking to this incident.

 

 

I agree that IF these injuries happened as reported and IF they were caused by the vaccine something went terribly wrong.

That's not how I read it, This is what you wrote:

 

 

 

Quote:
I don't think 40/100 million is widespread by any stretch of the imagination.

You do not know and cannot know how many adverse event have occurred with this vaccine, so you cannot claim 40 adverse events out of 100 million doses administered, and blow it off as not widespread.

post #40 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

You're quite right that its irrelevant if indeed these 40 cases are real and a vaccine reaction, but I still wanted to find out (data and all that).

In Jan-march 2012 there were 88 deaths in Chad from meningitus.
http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-a-programmes/dpc/epidemic-a-pandemic-alert-and-response/outbreak-news/3600-chad-meningitis-outbreak-situation-as-of-25-march-2012.html

40 in one week compared to 88 in three months. Divide the 88 by 12, the number of weeks in that 3month period, is 7.3.

So 40 compared to 7.3. How does that look?
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