Partial Seizure??

[fairydustpink89]

I've been VERY careful to only allow dead vaccines to be given to my 3 month old and only 2 singleton shots OR 1 combo at a time. I planned on following this permanently, but now I'm considering not vaxing at all.

Tuesday 3pm, he got a RV oral (I was told it was dead, a LIE I discovered after his unusual poops) and had a few serious problems.

Wednesday he had 5 poops (normally only has 1 yellow, seedy poop). They went from forest green and normal in texture, then a brighter green, seedless. It got progressively brighter and "snottier" until his 5th poop, which was bright green but clear snot. 

That same night, he was sitting up (hates laying down) facing a wall when he went stiff (hard to do when rocking) and suddenly screamed. I thought he wanted his dad, so I gave him the baby while he faced me. 

He froze again, looked like he was silently screaming, his body relaxed and then he whimpered for a split second. He did this 3 times. Was this a seizure??

Also, he has refused to take any naps since Tuesday and only sleeps an hour at a time at night (which sucks because it takes 30+ minutes just to feed him)

Now, I'm considering never vaxing again.

Oh and his Ped said she'll take a look at him in March and "don't worry, it's most likely nothing". Ugh.

[serenbat]

I'm ANTI-vac.

Take aside the vaccine- you have a problem...........your Dr.

You have a Dr. that does not respect you and your concerns for your child.

You have a three month old that has had a change and you need to watch what is going on. You need to know/and or look for the signs of dehydration and be very alert for them!!

You need to seek immediate medical help IF there are any signs of dehydration and or the pooping does continue or get worse!

That medical help should not come from who you currently are seeing-IMO

You have a bad Dr., a very bad one-IMO, no respectable one tells you to wait 2 months-REGARDLESS of a vac or not!

I assume it was a well visit and you know his current weight?

Good Dr's. respect the parent that is there with the child and knowns when "something" is not right- vac or not! You have a "change" going on- is it related- NO ONE WILL EVER TELL YOU IT IS! No one here will know with 100% certainty, no other medical Dr will go on record over another- it is just so super super rare if they even hint of it- let alone put in on paper. That is not the point. You don't wait with a change in bowels (in a three month old) 2 months!! 3 days is pushing it- again the dehydration is sooooooo important here!!

A respectable Dr. does not say that.

[serenbat]

oops I had some sort of power thing and I lost the rest I typed - basically, yes it's very important to know the "cause" (again -IMO) but the main focus right now is keeping hydrated and going back to a more normal poop

It is also vital -IMO to know your "mommy instinct" and to keep to that and be with others that respect it

[Rrrrrachel]

As long as he's drinking (hopefully breastmilk) it's very unlikely he'll become dehydrated. Obviously watch for signs and if you see any that's definitely worth another phone call.

I'm very sorry, I'm sure that experience was terrifying. I honestly don't know if it was vaccine related or not, I think the rota vaccine has a pretty low reaction rate. There are a lot of tummy bugs going around right now, and teething can cause funny poops, too. I hope whatever it i spasses quickly! Don't be afraid to call the doctor back and get a little pushy about wanting to be seen!
Edited by Rrrrrachel - 1/18/13 at 7:17pm

[fairydustpink89]

Yes, he's exclusively breastfeeding, no bottles. I used to run out in week 1 so he's unfortunately had 3 formula bottles. No one's been sick lately and my son and I only leave the house for ped/midwife appointments and even then I make sure only the dr touches him and only after washing her hands good (like before a surgery), uses sanitizer then gloves up. I think I've convinved my partner that refusing further vax is best. I had no idea the dangerous ingrefients in these things! Please forgive any typos, I'm still getting used to touch screens

[fairydustpink89]

Oh and his poop is/was normal today and he's been normal over all today

[fairydustpink89]

@serenbat: thank you for posting first that you're antivax. I may be pm-ing you if I'm able to get to my laptop to get more no-vax info

[prosciencemum]

Glad he's back to normal. I share rrrrachel's opinion that there's lots of things which can cause short term digestive changes in these little ones (and changes in sleep pattern at age 3 months is also quite normal), so much of what you describe sounds unlikely to be a vaccine reaction.

However I also agree that if you're concerned your doctor should see you, and it sounds like that relationship is not working out for you.

[crunchy_mommy]

(Disclaimer: we no longer vax.)

I don't know if your DS had a seizure. It doesn't really sound like one but it could be, hard to know without seeing it & he'd probably need an EEG to verify. My guess is that he was in pain due to the diarrhea.

It does sound like he had some side effects to the vax. Rotavirus itself causes diarrhea, that's one of its main symptoms. The rotavirus oral vaccine is a live vax, as far as I know, and I believe that it can cause minor versions of the illness it's supposed to prevent. You know, how people get the (live) flu shot & it causes a mild case of the flu, or the chicken pox vax causing a few itchy spots... though I don't know that research has supported this theory. But it sounds like that may be what happened to your son. Diarrhea is even listed as a side effect by the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-rotavirus.pdf Page 2 section 5), though it seems like it's just as often seen after placebo according to the manufacturer's studies. I would be on the look out for signs of intussusception, though it's supposedly a rare side effect & it sounds like he is already doing better. The virus may also be present in his stool so wash up really well after changing his diaper to avoid spreading it to anyone else.

Was it Rotarix brand? If so, here's the package insert. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM133539.pdf Side effects are listed on page 6. It also says, "To report SUSPECTED ADVERSE REACTIONS, contact GlaxoSmithKline at 1-888-825-5249 or VAERS at 1-800-822-7967 or www.vaers.hhs.gov."

[Rrrrrachel]

There is no live flu shot. You can't get the flu, mild or otherwise, from the flu shot.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

There is no live flu shot. You can't get the flu, mild or otherwise, from the flu shot.

Flumist... the nasal spray (which technically isn't a "shot" I guess but sometimes I use vax & shot interchangeably, oops!) is a live virus. And I don't know about technically getting "the flu" from the vax (though it seems possible to me) but I do know that common side effects of the vax sure do mimic flu symptoms... I also know MANY people who claim to have gotten the flu from the flu vax. Anecdotal, yes, but how many of those people are actually reporting their symptoms to anyone? None, I suspect, which is certainly skewing the numbers in favor of the vax...

[Rrrrrachel]

Many people may claim to get the flu from the flu SHOT, but it's not biologically possible.

The flu MIST is a different story. I still think it's very uncommon, though.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Many people may claim to get the flu from the flu SHOT, but it's not biologically possible.

The flu MIST is a different story. I still think it's very uncommon, though.

Of course, many people claim to get the flu, when in reality they don't have influenza, they have a virus that causes flu-like symptoms.  In fact, the vast majority of people who think they have the flu probably have one of those flu-like viruses.

It IS biologically possible for a siginficant number of people to have immune or other reactions to the flu shot that impair their ability to fight off the flu-like viruses.

[Rrrrrachel]

Sure, I guess it's possible, but I don't think there's any evidence of it.

[Taximom5]

www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/

Abstract: "Infectious agents contribute to the environmental factors involved in the development of autoimmune diseases possibly through molecular mimicry mechanisms. Hence, it is feasible that vaccinations may also contribute to the mosaic of autoimmunity. Evidence for the association of vaccinations and the development of these diseases is presented in this review. Infrequently reported post-vaccination autoimmune diseases include systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory myopathies, multiple sclerosis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, and vasculitis. In addition, we will discuss macrophagic myofasciitis, aluminum containing vaccines, and the recent evidence for autoimmunity following human papilloma virus vaccine." [bolding mine]

[Rrrrrachel]

The IOM reviewed the body of literature and found no convincing evidence that vaccines caused autoimmune disorders.

[pek64]

Some children cry without making a sound when the crying is intense. This is a few days old, now. OP, if the bickering hasn't scared you off, how is he now? And I agree that the response from the pediatrician's office was poor.

[oliviajune]

No that's not a seizure. Perhaps his bum was hurting him? Mine does that if he's constipated (it's a constant battle :( ). I wouldn't stress about it.

[fairydustpink89]

He's been fine. It was just the day after the shots this all happened. 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by oliviajune 

No that's not a seizure. 

Actually, none of us here can possibly know whether it was or wasn't.

I was told over the phone by the pediatrician's nurse that I was over-reacting and not to worry (and my baby had a much worse and more prolonged seizure reaction than what was described in the OP).  But when the pediatrician saw my baby, he was very concerned that it might have been a seizure, and said that there was no possible way for the nurse to to tell over the phone, and sent my son to a neurologist, who believed that my child did indeed have a seizure.

Even something seemingly as benign as narcolepsy is a kind of seizure reaction.