non-vaxxed child gets VPD - parent goes to media about "regretting decision not to vax" - does...

[kathymuggle]

I feel a little callous for admitting this  , but is anyone else annoyed by stories of  children who came down with a VAD - which caused their parents to have a complete turn-around on their beliefs - and induced them to go to the media and tell everyone they need to vax and they were duped by non-vaxxers? 

The vast majority of sel/delayed and non-vaxxers I know IRL and online devote a great amount of time to researching both vaccine and diseases.  

I don't think my child coming down with diptheria or tetanus or whatever would cause me to think I had been duped by non-vaxxers.  For goodness sake - I know the stats on the prevalence of those diseases, if my child come down with a VAD, I will know it is just bad luck. 

[fruitfulmomma]

Yes, and I see it in homebirthers too. Life is not inherintly safe. There are risks and benefits to every decision we make for ourselves and our children. Take personally responsibility for yourselves and do more than watch BoBB before hiring your midwife, understand the risks vs benefits and how your emergency plan would unfold.  

Same with vaxxes. Take time to consider what your child having a vpd would look like and weigh that against what you concerns you about vaxxes.

[triscuitsmom]

It wasn't "bad luck" that I got pertussis. Or rather it was, and yet not a rare, unbelievable thing to have happen. Having my newborn contract it was terrible luck, but considering he was exposed to someone (me) on Day 1 of life again not something that is shocking. You act as though it will be only "bad luck" and not something that can be predicted.

Forgive me if I sound upset but I am. This is offensive. I do regret my decision. Why is it not OK for me to say that, and say it loudly when people loudly proclaim they regret vaccinating all the time even for reaction that are mild and mean nothing more than an immune response is happening, or when there has been no reaction at all.

You THINK you'd not be upset and regret your decision. I wouldn't wish having a permanently lung damaged child on anyone, ever, and so I hope you never ever know what you're talking about here. And my newborn? He lived. Considering the abysmal statistics he faced when he contracted symptomatic pertussis after Day 1 exposure that is good luck. Good luck and modern medicine for the win.

Not being exposed at all or at least having less chance of contracting the disease by not being coughed around by someone with active pertussis because of having up to date on immunizations would have been better.

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma 

Yes, and I see it in homebirthers too. Life is not inherintly safe. There are risks and benefits to every decision we make for ourselves and our children. Take personally responsibility for yourselves and do more than watch BoBB before hiring your midwife, understand the risks vs benefits and how your emergency plan would unfold.  Take time to consider what your child having a vpd would look like and weigh that against what you concerns you about vaxxes.

That's great advice, in theory.

When you have biased information being passed along by a whole bunch of people in one place (ie MDC in this case) on either homebirth risks or VPD risks and vaccine risks it's a little bit more difficult to wade through especially since many people start out by asking for advice saying they don't know a lot about the given subject.

Telling someone that has risk factors to just trust their intuition and stay home is dangerous. Telling someone pertussis is no big deal and even if you do contract it sodium ascorbate cures it is dangerous. Both have been said here to people who admit they don't know enough to evaluate the answers they are being given. How very nice to give advice and then when a bad outcome happen say "Well you should have known to do more research". People are asking for help saying they don't know what is good research and are being presented with answers.

Also... until your child has one of these VPDs you can't really imagine. My middle child had best case scenario for symptomatic pertussis and I wish he'd never had to go through it.

[fruitfulmomma]

Nm - this is in the i'm not vaxxing and i'd prefer not to start a debate.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma 

Yes, and I see it in homebirthers too. Life is not inherintly safe. There are risks and benefits to every decision we make for ourselves and our children. Take personally responsibility for yourselves and do more than watch BoBB before hiring your midwife, understand the risks vs benefits and how your emergency plan would unfold.  

Same with vaxxes. Take time to consider what your child having a vpd would look like and weigh that against what you concerns you about vaxxes.

I agree with most of this; however I believe that life IS inherently safe.

A healthy well-nourished person can be exposed to pertussis and be fine. I've had it only when I was eating SAD and not taking supplements. Ever since I started taking responsibility for my health I've gotten minor things like colds but no flu or even shingles when dd had the chicken pox. 

Quote:

I don't think my child coming down with diptheria or tetanus or whatever would cause me to think I had been duped by non-vaxxers. 

It sure wouldn't cause me to think that. However, I have to admit it was a little scary when dd was a little baby to stand by my beliefs, especially since we had frequent contact with third world immigrants with iffy health status. It gets easier each year when I see how well she's developing and thriving. 

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

I agree with most of this; however I believe that life IS inherently safe.

A healthy well-nourished person can be exposed to pertussis and be fine. I've had it only when I was eating SAD and not taking supplements. Ever since I started taking responsibility for my health I've gotten minor things like colds but no flu or even shingles when dd had the chicken pox. 

It sure wouldn't cause me to think that. However, I have to admit it was a little scary when dd was a little baby to stand by my beliefs, especially since we had frequent contact with third world immigrants with iffy health status. It gets easier each year when I see how well she's developing and thriving. 

There is a difference between doing what you can and having a bit of luck and a hard line though. A SAD eating, smoking, non exercising person can be exposed to pertussis and be fine. One doesn't actually equal the other. You are doing good things for your health and that's great but it's doesn't mean you're unable to catch those things, only that you havn't.

Also shingles isn't caused by being exposed to a child with chicken pox, though it can happen the other way around (someone with shingles causing someone unimmune to chicken pox to get chicken pox). In fact being exposed to a child with chicken pox if you are already immune to it can boost your immunity, so really it wasn't a big surprise that you didn't get shingles from that.

[Chloebelle]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I feel a little callous for admitting this  , but is anyone else annoyed by stories of  children who came down with a VAD - which caused their parents to have a complete turn-around on their beliefs - and induced them to go to the media and tell everyone they need to vax and they were duped by non-vaxxers? 

The part that would bug me is going to the media, and the media being all too happy to shout it from the rooftops. When vaccinated people get VPD, you don't hear about it, at least not the truth. You'll see the headlines about people being infected with this deadly VPD, but you won't see anything in the article about how many people who contracted the illness were in fact vaccinated. It all makes me sad.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

There is a difference between doing what you can and having a bit of luck and a hard line though. A SAD eating, smoking, non exercising person can be exposed to pertussis and be fine. One doesn't actually equal the other. You are doing good things for your health and that's great but it's doesn't mean you're unable to catch those things, only that you havn't.

Yes SAD-eating people with bad habits may not get sick, but I think this is because they have strong constitutions and especially a healthy thyroid. I think subclinical and/or undiagnosed thyroid problems are part of the reason why some people who seem healthy get sick. 

I may yet still catch something, but even so I'm not afraid. I'll be able to deal with it. 

Quote:

Also shingles isn't caused by being exposed to a child with chicken pox, though it can happen the other way around (someone with shingles causing someone unimmune to chicken pox to get chicken pox).

I know; I should clarify: I was scared that being under stress from taking care of a sick child would activate shingles. Coincidentally I knew and heard of a lot of people getting shingles at this time, so it was always at the back of my mind.

Also, dh never had CP so we were afraid he'd get a bad case of it. He didn't. 

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Chloebelle 

The part that would bug me is going to the media, and the media being all too happy to shout it from the rooftops. When vaccinated people get VPD, you don't hear about it, at least not the truth. You'll see the headlines about people being infected with this deadly VPD, but you won't see anything in the article about how many people who contracted the illness were in fact vaccinated. It all makes me sad.

Yep. Also the media is perfectly happy under-reporting when someone has a "rare" vaccine reaction.

Look at the Ryan Mojabi case. Still coming up with almost no reporting in Google News searches. So far only HuffPo of the semi-mainstream media has done a story in the U.S.

Vaccine Court Awards Millions to Two Children With Autism

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita 

Yes SAD-eating people with bad habits may not get sick, but I think this is because they have strong constitutions and especially a healthy thyroid. I think subclinical and/or undiagnosed thyroid problems are part of the reason why some people who seem healthy get sick. 

I may yet still catch something, but even so I'm not afraid. I'll be able to deal with it. 

I know; I should clarify: I was scared that being under stress from taking care of a sick child would activate shingles. Coincidentally I knew and heard of a lot of people getting shingles at this time, so it was always at the back of my mind.

Also, dh never had CP so we were afraid he'd get a bad case of it. He didn't. 

That line I bolded? That's over the top offensive.

Two reasons... One: You can pass it on to someone who can't deal with it. Easily in fact as many of these things are easily transmitted and contagious before they are bad enough to be diagnosed.

Two: You are making these decisions not just for yourself but for your child and your child may not be able to deal with it just by virtue of being in a higher risk category based on age (and if your child is old enough to be out of that now, they weren't always).

Also as an aside... MAYBE you'd be able to deal with it. Lots of people thought the same thing and were proven wrong. And there is a lot of really undesirable things between perfect health and death.

Do what you'd like, but to pretend like only vaccinating has risks is not only blatently false but also offensive to those who've had to live the other side.

[Chloebelle]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

That line I bolded? That's over the top offensive.

Two reasons... One: You can pass it on to someone who can't deal with it. Easily in fact as many of these things are easily transmitted and contagious before they are bad enough to be diagnosed.

Two: You are making these decisions not just for yourself but for your child and your child may not be able to deal with it just by virtue of being in a higher risk category based on age (and if your child is old enough to be out of that now, they weren't always).

Also as an aside... MAYBE you'd be able to deal with it. Lots of people thought the same thing and were proven wrong. And there is a lot of really undesirable things between perfect health and death.

Do what you'd like, but to pretend like only vaccinating has risks is not only blatently false but also offensive to those who've had to live the other side.

 Offensive? She's entitled to her opinion and beliefs based on her own personal experiences and research. AND we're entitled to come to the "I'm Not Vaccinating" board and discuss those beliefs. If its offensive to you, don't read it.

To suggest that someone should get vaccinated to "protect" others is just ludicrous.

I've made the decision not to vaccinate my kids based on common sense. I have every confidence that I made the right decision not to inject my kids with this toxic poison. If doing that makes sense to you, then I hope you're happy with your decision. I know I am.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

Forgive me if I sound upset but I am. This is offensive. I do regret my decision. 

I'm sorry to hear about all that you went through. It must've been really tough. :(

[rachelsmama]

I'm pretty annoyed by how quickly the media jumps on these cases, and I'm disgusted by how heavily these kids are being exploited in the interest of pushing vaccinations, and I shake my head when these parents claim they were uninformed, but the article goes on to offer no actual information, just an emotional plea for more people to just trust one authority or the other.  Mostly I feel bad for the families though.  It has got to be tough being in a hospital with a sick kid, and be worried about the kid, and be doing the whole "what if" guilty feeling thing that is such an unavoidable part of parenting, and then to have to deal with the medical establishment's condemnation of their choices too.  While most people who are in favour of vaccinations are tactful, decent humans, there are also some incredibly insensitive individuals with strong pro-vax feelings, and I suspect that parents with unvaccinated kids in the hospital have a hard time avoiding them.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom 

It wasn't "bad luck" that I got pertussis. Or rather it was, and yet not a rare, unbelievable thing to have happen. Having my newborn contract it was terrible luck, but considering he was exposed to someone (me) on Day 1 of life again not something that is shocking. You act as though it will be only "bad luck" and not something that can be predicted.

I don't think who is going to get a VAD can be predicted.  Some have higher risk factors than others, but that is about it.  My youngest was born with a birth defect, and faced surgery at 14 hours old.  She is fine, fwiw.  I did everything right as far as I know during the pregnancy - crap happens and sometimes it happens to you.

Forgive me if I sound upset but I am. This is offensive. I do regret my decision. Why is it not OK for me to say that, and say it loudly when people loudly proclaim they regret vaccinating all the time even for reaction that are mild and mean nothing more than an immune response is happening, or when there has been no reaction at all.

There is nothing to forgive.  You are entitled to your feelings (obviously) .  I tried to put myself in a pro-vaxxers shoes,  and ask myself if I, a pro-vaxxer, would be annoyed if someone switched sides, went to the media  and claimed they were duped by the pro-vax side if their child experienced a vaccine reaction.  The answer is a qualified yes.  Most pro-vaxxers (not just people who vax) are reasonably educated on vaxxing; they know darn well there are risks to vaxxing, and if g-d forbid a serious side effect happened to them, well, they went in knowing it was a possibility.  I would not expect a highly informed  pro-vaxxer to switch sides completely because their child experienced a rare and acknowledged serious reaction.  I can see them decide to revisit vaxxing, perhaps not vax due to the fact that they personally can not stomach the risks or are worried that it might not be a good choice for their family due to history- but switch sides completely and go to the media because their child was the 1/1million who had an anaphylaxis reaction (for example)?  Nope.    

I can understand those who listened to their health care provider (without doing research on their own) feeling duped.  

You THINK you'd not be upset and regret your decision. I wouldn't wish having a permanently lung damaged child on anyone, ever, and so I hope you never ever know what you're talking about here.

Correct.  I used the word think, because it is possible I may feel differently if one of my children experienced a VAD that I was not okay with them getting.  It is possible it would cause me to revisit my decision, even vaccinate  if I just could not bear even the remote possibility of going through it again - but go to the media and sing to the rafters about how not vaccinating is a bad idea ???  Doubtful.  The fact that my kid might be the 1/ 12 000 000 to get tetanus does not change the risk profile for tetanus for the rest of the world.

For the record, I do not wish a serious vaccine reaction or VAD on anyone, and I am glad your son is Okay.

Edited by kathymuggle - 1/20/13 at 7:21pm

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by rachelsmama 

 Mostly I feel bad for the families though.  It has got to be tough being in a hospital with a sick kid, and be worried about the kid, and be doing the whole "what if" guilty feeling thing that is such an unavoidable part of parenting, and then to have to deal with the medical establishment's condemnation of their choices too.  While most people who are in favour of vaccinations are tactful, decent humans, there are also some incredibly insensitive individuals with strong pro-vax feelings, and I suspect that parents with unvaccinated kids in the hospital have a hard time avoiding them.

Well said.  I do feel compassion as well.  I also suspect  parents who are fresh off (or still immersed in ) a horrible illness are not very objective about the whole thing…yet that is when the media pounces.  

I also think it is normal to regret your decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate, if your child is one of the rare children to get a serious VAD or have a very serious vaccine reaction.  Obviously, for that child, doing the opposite of what was done might have turned out better.  Going from "we could have avoided this had DD been vaxxed" to "everyone needs to vax!" is quite the leap, though.

Edited by kathymuggle - 1/20/13 at 4:32pm

[Jennyanydots]

It's a risk either way. If I don't vax and my kid gets a VPD and has serious complications, I will regret not vaxxing for that disease. If I do vax and my kid has a vaccine reaction with serious complications or develops chronic illness I suspect is vax related, I will regret vaxxing. It's not an easy decision, so I take good look at all the facts I can get my hands on, then make an educated decision based on my perception of the relative risk, and hope that luck is on my side. It's ok for these parents to feel they should have chosen a different option, but it's sad to see their regret exploited to pressure others into making different choices out of fear.

[Chloebelle]

Originally Posted by Jennyanydots 

It's a risk either way. If I don't vax and my kid gets a VPD and has serious complications, I will regret not vaxxing for that disease. If I do vax and my kid has a vaccine reaction with serious complications or develops chronic illness I suspect is vax related, I will regret vaxxing. It's not an easy decision, so I take good look at all the facts I can get my hands on, then make an educated decision based on my perception of the relative risk, and hope that luck is on my side. It's ok for these parents to feel they should have chosen a different option, but it's sad to see their regret exploited to pressure others into making different choices out of fear.

Yes. This sums up how I feel, but I'm much too tired today to put it into words :)

[Cynthia Mosher]

This is the I'm Not Vaccinating forum, which is a support forum only. The forum guidelines:

Quote:

I'm Not Vaccinating - This is a support-only forum for those not or those seriously considering not vaccinating. Here we host discussion of issues that arise when choosing to not vaccinate and sharing of resources and information that are related to the no-vax decision. Members who are vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted. 

triscuitsmom, your argument seems to be advocating for vaccination. As such, your posts here are not appropriate. If you wish to state your feelings about regretting not vaccinating yourself you can do that in the Vaccination Discussions and Debate forum where the forum guidelines allow a roundtable of views and opinions. 

[emmy526]

I wonder about the parent who we don't read about, the one who changed her mind, got her kids vaccinated, and then regretted it due to adverse reactions resulting in life long damage, and changing her mind back to the nonvax  stance.  I haven't seen any of those kinds of stories around.  Suppose a parent didn't vax one child, that child contracted a disease, then the parent decides to catch up her child on all other vaccines now missing, only to result in vaccine damage--now the parent has changed her mind again on vaxing and will do no more.....how many parents are like that?  I"m guessing more than we know about.